Abu Dhabi hosts first US-Ukraine-Russia talks (Full Transcript)

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Welcome to the Global News Podcast on YouTube, where we go behind the headlines. I'm Jeannette Jalil. And today, Ukraine says it's holding its first trilateral talks with the US and Russia since Moscow's full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Well, Wira Davis has reported extensively from Ukraine, and he joins us now. So Wira, how significant is it that Russia is joining the US and Ukraine in Abu Dhabi for these talks?

[00:00:28] Speaker 2: I think it is very significant. I don't think we're going to get too much out of it. But this is the first time that the two sides and the Americans will have sat down together. But Donald Trump has complained, I think, with some justification that he goes and sees the Ukrainians on their own, that they talk about wanting peace. He goes to see the Russians on their own. They talk about the same thing. But he can never get the two sides together. And I think, to be fair to Donald Trump, getting both sides together is a sign of some progress. But that doesn't mean the talks are going to succeed, because there's an awful lot of distance between their relative positions. Remember, towards the end of last year, the start of this year, the Ukrainian President Zelensky said there was a 90% chance of the 20-point peace plan succeeding. There was a lot of hope, certainly in official Ukrainian circles, that something could happen. But it all went quiet. You know, the new year has come and gone. The war has continued. In fact, in many ways, it's intensified with the Russian attacks over Ukrainian cities. And the Ukrainian position, I think, with some justification has been that Russia has just not been interested in sitting around the table. So this 20-point peace plan that, of course, was hammered out at the Paris summit with a coalition of the willing and the Americans. And that, I think, is the basis for what we're going to see in Abu Dhabi. But details are scarce.

[00:01:53] Speaker 1: As you say, Wira, details are scarce. But we do know that one big key sticking point is the future of the Donbass region. Russia wants parts of it that currently are controlled by the Ukrainians. The Ukrainians say no way, given the sacrifices they've made in defending their territory. A red line for both sides. How do you square that circle?

[00:02:14] Speaker 2: As you say, it is one of the main sticking points. Actually, there are many more. But let's stick on this one. Russia now controls about 20% of Ukraine's territory. Zelensky seems to be acknowledging that if there is to be a peace deal and a ceasefire agreement, Ukraine is going to have to accept in the short term that it's going to lose some territory. Now, what the Ukrainians don't want is for the Russians to be given territory they don't even control, the whole of the Donbass. That is what Putin wants. And that is why the Russians haven't been engaged around the table so far, because they haven't achieved their military land grabbing objectives in eastern Ukraine. So that is a big sticking point. I spoke to a lot of Ukrainians, and they don't want to hand over any land at all. But I think even the most pragmatic ones would really balk at having to give land that Russia doesn't even occupy to Russia. But again, this isn't the only sticking point. There are other things like the presence of foreign troops on Ukrainian soil, because one of the points in the post-Paris plan is for a multinational force made up probably mainly of British and French troops to help keep the peace. Well, Vladimir Putin said that's not acceptable. In fact, he said he would regard them as legitimate targets. So I think any sense of foreign troops being brought in to police or maintain some sort of ceasefire is another big sticking point. And the other one, of course, a vital one for the Ukrainians, is that they have these guarantees. Of course, he's not a member of NATO. So Zelensky wants guarantees, security guarantees, that if in the event of a ceasefire, Russia then at some point in the future invades other parts of Ukraine, that the Americans and NATO allies would come to Ukraine's aid.

[00:04:00] Speaker 1: Well, Mr. Zelensky did say at Davos this week that he'd got those security guarantees from the US. What are the concessions from the Russian side? Because we keep hearing about what the Ukrainians are being asked to give up. What are the Russians prepared to give up? Because there has to be some kind of compromise, surely?

[00:04:18] Speaker 2: Look, we haven't really seen the details of what the Russians are offering. Of course, they seem to be dominant militarily at the minute. Ukraine is losing ground, and they have been steadily losing ground for the last few months. So Russia would agree to end the war. There'd be an exchange of prisoners. But I think Russia would have to accept some of those other points, like perhaps a multinational peacekeeping force. It would have to accept that Ukraine is going to get these security guarantees. But we've not really seen from the Russian side many details because they haven't been engaged internationally yet. Of course, one important point, I think, that balks Ukraine a little bit is that the American delegations have been to Russia many times. Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner, Witkoff in particular, Donald Trump's special envoy, has been to Russia on several occasions, including in the last couple of days. He's never been to Ukraine. And that is one reason I think why, even though he's very sceptical and he's angry with the continued Russian aggression, Zelensky feels that he has to participate in these talks in Abu Dhabi because he feels that Donald Trump's attention has been focused elsewhere. We all know about Venezuela. We all know about Greenland and other areas. And there's a real, real fear on the Ukrainian side that Donald Trump and the American side are going to lose interest in the war in Ukraine at a time when Zelensky really needs to keep the momentum going.

[00:05:44] Speaker 1: And he's also concerned that the Russians have been emboldened by the success of their airstrikes on Kyiv and other major Ukrainian cities, which have devastated the heating and power infrastructure and left many people struggling to cope in the midst of a freezing winter.

[00:06:02] Speaker 2: Anyway, the Ukrainian government says there is not now a single conventional power station across the whole of Ukraine that has not been damaged or hit in Russian airstrikes. Temperatures in Kyiv over the last couple of weeks have been occasionally minus 20 degrees centigrade. So with the loss of power and the freezing conditions, it's been terrible for tens of thousands of Ukrainians, particularly in the capital, Kyiv, where Russia seems to be focusing much of its attacking. And Zelensky has accused Russia of deliberately exploiting the freezing cold winter, which has been much colder even by Ukrainian standards, to make life hard for its people. And there are tens of thousands of people in apartment blocks in Kyiv who haven't got heating, they haven't got running water, they haven't got electricity. The Kyiv local authorities are having to set up these so-called invincibility centers. Now, those are train carriages in train stations or huge marquees that have heating, that have food, that have water, that have company. Because, you know, a lot of kids can't go to school because the schools are closed because there's no heating. So it is a really, really difficult situation. The mayor of Kyiv, Vitaly Klitschko, has actually encouraged people to leave the capital if they can. And it's reported that in the last few days, at least 600,000 people have left the Ukrainian capital, albeit temporarily.

[00:07:22] Speaker 1: Well, given all that, when you speak to Ukrainians on the ground there, when you're reporting from Kyiv, what do they say about the prospects of making peace with Russia? Do they trust Vladimir Putin? Do they trust Donald Trump?

[00:07:38] Speaker 2: The animosity is absolutely huge. And it goes to, you know, look, we've nearly had four years of war now. Thousands of Ukrainians have been killed. Many, many more Russians have been killed. But most Ukrainians I speak to don't want to make these big concessions to Russia. They don't want to give up their land in the east for peace. And they certainly don't trust Vladimir Putin, especially in the long term. The big fear for most Ukrainians is if there's a peace deal now, if there's a ceasefire, and if Russia gets some of that land in the east, what happens in four or five years' time? And it's not just Ukraine. The Baltic republics, in Poland, in other eastern countries, they're very, very worried about Vladimir Putin's sort of belligerent intentions. And no Ukrainians I speak to speak positively about Putin or can see his point of view. Donald Trump's a different thing, I think. President Zelensky knows he has to keep on the right side of Donald Trump. And that's, I think, why we saw Zelensky slightly critical of European leaders in the last couple of days. I don't think he did that because he's angry with European leaders. I mean, they're his best allies. But I think he's echoing some of Donald Trump's points, because he knows that he has to curry favour with Donald Trump. And that is why he's gone to this meeting in Abu Dhabi. And that is why he, you know, turns up and speaks to Trump whenever he can, because he has to keep Donald Trump's interests.

[00:09:06] Speaker 1: Wirra, thank you. That was Wirra Davis. And if you liked this episode, please subscribe to us here on YouTube. And if you'd like us to cover any other stories, please leave a comment below. And if you want to hear more international news, you can always download our Global News Podcast from wherever you get your podcasts. Transcribed by https://otter.ai