Speaker 1: It's controversial to say this, and I don't know why, which is why I talk about it, but I truly believe that people cannot afford to not invest and just solely focus on paying off student loans, mostly because it's going to take many, many years. The average time it takes someone to pay off student loans is around 20 years. So imagine telling somebody, don't invest for those 20 years until you are debt-free. That is absolutely ludicrous. You're never going to get that time back. So what I tell people is it's important to pay yourself. Yes, pay your bills, but you are your top priority. And if you don't prioritize yourself over those bills, no one else will, right? You are able to borrow for your education, but there is no loan for retirement. And so I tell people, try to balance it if you can. Obviously, investing is a privilege and not everybody can afford it. But if you're in a position where you can go above the minimum payment on your student loan, think about splitting that payment between the loan and

Speaker 2: investing in your future. What are the biggest mistakes that you find that people make with student loan debt when it comes to managing it and trying to obviously pay it down?

Speaker 1: I think the biggest one, and I understand why people do this, is avoiding it completely because the anxiety that comes with looking at such a massive debt is overwhelming, right? And mental health is very linked with how people are dealing with student loans right now, and it's affecting people in an extremely negative way. The other issue, and I also made this mistake of what the borrowers make, is leaning into deferral and forbearance without really understanding what those are. So I immediately, as soon as I graduated law school, I couldn't call Navient and Sally Mae fast enough to ask for a deferment and a forbearance. I immediately signed everything that they would send me saying, yes, yes, yes, I need a deferment, I need a forbearance, without really understanding the effect that that was going to have on my interest rates and how that was going to balloon my balance. People need to be more educated about what those options are

Speaker 2: before they jump on it. And this is obviously the million-dollar question, but what is your number one piece of advice for people who are looking to get rid of their student debt, do what you did?

Speaker 1: Yeah, I think for me, I am very goal-oriented, so I chose a debt-free date. So I sat down, I looked at my numbers, and I basically set a date by when I was going to become debt-free, and I worked my way through that. I suggest doing this together with a friend or a family member who's also paying down debt, so that you can work on it together, because it can feel very isolating. Again, the shame, the isolation of debt makes you push it down further and avoid it. So speaking it out loud, sharing it with a friend, and working through it together may be a solution for some.