[00:00:00] Speaker 1: U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hexeth says that the Pentagon will cut Senator Mark Kelly's retirement pay. Kelly and six Democratic lawmakers took part in a video reminding U.S. service members of their duty to refuse illegal orders. The Democrats were accused by both Hexeth and President Trump of, quote, seditious behavior. Kelly is a retired Navy captain who served during Operation Desert Storm. Hexeth wants to cut his pay and reduce his retirement rank. Kelly says that he plans to fight the action.

[00:00:28] Speaker 2: Donald Trump, he deferred the draft five times because he had bone spurs. Four generations of service to this country earns me the right to speak. Five deferments earns nothing.

[00:00:46] Speaker 3: The Pentagon is seeking to punish Senator Mark Kelly for speaking out against Trump. The Navy veteran was one of six Democratic lawmakers, excuse me, who took part in this video reminding U.S. troops about their duty to defy illegal orders. Now, Pete Hexeth called Kelly's statement seditious, and he issued a letter of censure. He said the department is going to cut Kelly's retirement pay. In response, Kelly called Hexeth the most unqualified defense secretary in history. And he added that he will not be intimidated and plans to fight back. Congressman, you were also part of this video as well. What do you make of this move to punish Mark Kelly?

[00:01:25] Speaker 4: Let's call this what this is. This is Donald Trump and his cronies in the administration weaponizing the federal government to punish political opponents, to silence dissent and opposition. That's what's happening. There's no merit to the allegations. They are simply trying to seek vengeance on me, Mark Kelly and others for speaking up. But they picked on the wrong people. Right. We are we are people that have taken an oath to this country. We are not going to back down ever. We're going to double down, triple down if we have to, because we are we are dedicated to the Constitution and to the rule of law. What we did and what we reminded our service members of is the simple obligation that they also have an oath to follow the rule of law.

[00:02:06] Speaker 3: By the way, Pete Hexeth also reminded service members of in the first Trump administration before he backed Trump when he was worried that Trump would issue illegal orders. I mean, should he be worried that the next president might court martial him, censure him, dock his retirement pay?

[00:02:24] Speaker 5: Well, look, I'll say I was reading Jonathan Turley. He's a legal scholar and he says the Brits are the ones who gave us this idea of sedition. And we definitely use that too loosely. Not everything is sedition. Not everything is a punishable crime. And this video, I believe, was protected speech and it does not constitute such a high crime. But and I want to thank you for your service, Congressman. My dad was a captain in Vietnam and he taught me a thing or two about chain of command. And when I saw this video, I was shocked because it felt reckless. It felt like it was undermining the chain of command of good order and discipline among troops and service members. So I want to ask you honestly, why the video? Why make a video when most service members already are aware that they can object to illegal orders if they find them to be that way? So was it a PR stunt? Because it certainly came across that way. It poked all the right buttons with the Trump administration. And I'm not saying that what they're doing against Mark Kelly is is justified. But I also think it was pure resistance theater. And I don't think that was a very productive use of your time as six very honorable former service members.

[00:03:32] Speaker 4: Let me answer your question with a story. Before I deployed to Iraq with my platoon of paratroopers, I knew that these young men, 18, 19, 20 years old, were about to be thrust into a very foreign, very volatile, very scary situation. So I gathered them around in our main room in the barracks and I showed them the film Platoon. And in that movie, there is a scene where that platoon, under extreme duress and fear, ends up committing a massacre. It actually was an illustration of the My Lai Massacre, which really happened in real life. And then I led a discussion with my paratroopers and I asked them, how did this happen? How did they lose sight of their humanity? How did they lose sight of who they were as people? And they become the aggressors. So it was that discussion that led the groundwork, that laid the groundwork, so that when we were in combat, we were in the fog of war, and they had to make split-second decisions about what was right and wrong, whether to shoot or not. They had already received the training. If you wait until the last minute, you have failed them. We started a conversation about what the law and constitution requires of our soldiers, and that's what every commander should do. So instead of undermining the chain of command, it actually reinforces the chain of command and what the obligation of our soldiers are morally, ethically, and legally. And I will never back down from that obligation, because we have a commander-in-chief who has threatened to use the military to shoot protesters, threatened to send the military to polling stations, which is a violation of U.S. law, which committed a second strike in the Caribbean, which I think was a violation of law. All of these things give me grave concern right now, and that is why Mark Kelly, I, and others are reminding our service members and standing by them that they have an obligation to follow the law. Quick response, Carol.

[00:05:23] Speaker 5: And I hear you on that, but I will note that one of the senators in the video, when asked what specific instances of illegal military orders were you alluding to, because it wasn't specific, it was very ambiguous, which I also thought was irresponsible. If you're going to make these accusations that Trump, as commander-in-chief, is giving illegal orders, maybe name one, two.

[00:05:44] Speaker 4: I literally just answered that. That's what I just described, that we weren't talking about orders in the moment, but do you want— Just a general sort of vibe.

[00:05:52] Speaker 5: Hey, by the way, you have this right, even though they are told they have that right.

[00:05:56] Speaker 4: That's what I literally just illustrated in the story. Yeah, no, it's a great story. Is it possible for me and others to shoot a video when we think an order is being given that somebody has five seconds to execute that might be lawful or unlawful? Is that possible? No, it's not, right? What we were doing was starting a discussion about what the obligation of service members are, right? So when they are in the moment and they have to make that second decision, they've already thought about it.

[00:06:24] Speaker 6: We heard today from Defense Secretary Hegseth that he's moving to formally punish your colleague, Senator and retired Navy combat pilot Mark Kelly, for appearing in a video, which he and other lawmakers told troops that they didn't have to follow illegal orders. Hegseth has accused the lawmakers of sedition. He says he intends to demote Kelly from the rank of captain, reduce his retirement pay. Senator Kelly responded, saying in part, I risked my life for this country and to defend our Constitution, including the First Amendment rights of every American to speak out. I never expected that the President of the United States and the Secretary of Defense would attack me for doing exactly that. What's your reaction?

[00:06:59] Speaker 7: Well, for those of us that are really worried that we could lose our democracy in 2026, this is what we're talking about. This is obviously an exceptional abuse of executive power, punishing a United States senator, demoting his rank in the military as a retired war fighter, simply because he said something that the President disagrees with. But of course, this is happening throughout the federal government. Over and over again, the President is using, whether it be the United States military or the Department of Justice, to punish anybody that opposes him, James Comey, Letitia James, the news media who have been banned from the Pentagon. We have never, ever in the history of this country seen a president so willing to use his official powers to try to censor speech, to try to control what people say, to punish people who disagree with him. Now, it's true it hasn't silenced and won't silence Mark Kelly. Journalists like you and many others all across the country are still telling the truth. But this is how democracies die, and it's why we have to continue to raise alarm bells all over the country when it continues to happen.