Europe pushes stronger defense role as NATO faces strain (Full Transcript)

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: We shouldn't get in the warm bath of complacency and think that, therefore, all we're really doing is reasserting the continuation of what we've had for the last 80 years. That would be a mistake, and it would be a particular mistake for Europe, because my strong view is that Europe hasn't done enough in its own defence and security for many years.

[00:00:20] Speaker 2: Under President Trump, the United States of America will once again take on the task of renewal and restoration, driven by a vision of a future as proud, as sovereign and as vital as our civilization's past. And while we are prepared, if necessary, to do this alone, it is our preference and it is our hope to do this together with you, our friends here in Europe.

[00:00:48] Speaker 3: And just to be clear, the special report put out before this conference began labels Trump, quote, the demolition man. And its authors warned that we're entering an era of, quote, wrecking ball politics with the US-led post-1945 international order now under destruction. Serious stuff indeed. And so I asked the European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen and the British Prime Minister Keir Starmer for their red lines and roadmap for the future defence and survival of Europe.

[00:01:20] Speaker 4: I was very much reassured by the speech of the Secretary of State. We know him. He's a good friend, a strong ally. Indeed, this – and this was for me very reassuring to listen to him. We know that in the administration some have a harsher tone on these topics, but the Secretary of State was very clear. He said we want a strong Europe in the alliance. And this is what we are working for intensively in the European Union. We have to be an independent Europe, not a Europe that is leaning on someone, but a Europe that is going forward with friends and allies together facing the challenges that are out there.

[00:02:10] Speaker 1: I thought the Secretary of State's speech was consistent with the argument that Ursula made in her remarks a moment ago and the argument I'm making. I think it's really clear, though, that we shouldn't get in the warm bath of complacency and think that therefore all we're really doing is reasserting the continuation of what we've had for the last 80 years. That would be a mistake, and it would be a particular mistake for Europe, because my strong view is that Europe hasn't done enough in its own defence and security for many years, because we will only be able to preserve NATO in the way it is needed for the next 80 years if we change and strengthen the European dimension. That is something which a number of American presidents have said for some time. I believe to be true, and I think we've got to seize this movement to move forward, not to pull apart the transatlantic relationship, but to make sure it works in the circumstances and the times that we face.

[00:03:07] Speaker 3: The current Secretary General of NATO, after Trump's Davos speech, actually after Prime Minister Carney's speech which talked about a rupture, he said, if you all are thinking that you can do what you have to do without the United States, then dream on. It's not going to happen. So how long do you think it'll take to get to this posture that you both say you need to get to?

[00:03:32] Speaker 1: Well, the first thing I'd say is that we're not looking at a future that tears us apart from the Euro-Atlantic alliance that we have. NATO has been the single most effective and successful military alliance the world has ever known, and we should never move away from it. But I think simply sitting where we are isn't good enough, and therefore the change does need to come. That needs Europe to be stronger, to be working more closely together, and that's why I said what I said about the UK-EU relationship. We're 10 years on from Brexit. We are not the Britain of the Brexit years. We're a Britain that wants to work with the EU even more closely in light of the challenge that we face here 10 years on.

[00:04:21] Speaker 3: But you also said, and I want to get to the bottom of this, that some red lines have been crossed and they cannot be uncrossed. You're talking about the United States in your speech, I think. What red lines are you talking about? Because there is a massive deficit of trust between many people in the alliance and certainly leaders who are now having to do what you're doing, workarounds, de-risking, decoupling, whatever you might want to call it, independence. What red lines have been crossed that cannot be uncrossed?

[00:04:47] Speaker 4: So, for example, I want to be very clear, our digital sovereignty is our digital sovereignty. Very clear on that one. And we have a long tradition in freedom of speech. Actually, the Enlightenment started on our continent. And we are very clear with digital sovereignty also that what is forbidden offline is forbidden online. And we will not flinch what that is concerned. We will be very steadfast to pursue this very clear demand for us.

[00:05:27] Speaker 3: About Ukraine, because, again, Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State, barely mentioned it except for an elusive piece he said those words. President Trump has said in his latest comments that Ukraine, President Zelensky needs to get onto it because Russia wants a deal, these are his words, and President Zelensky needs to get onto it right now otherwise he's going to miss a great opportunity. Secretary Rubio did not go to your meeting, your leaders' meeting with President Zelensky last night. Where do you think this all stands? Where do the negotiations stand? Is it Zelensky who needs to be pressured?

[00:06:03] Speaker 4: So, I think it's extremely important that we do not buy in the Russian narrative. And this has been out too much there. I mean, if we look at the strategic goals and the military goals of Putin, it's a huge failure. He wanted to Russify Ukraine. Ukraine has become European. He wanted to stop NATO. NATO has gotten bigger with Sweden and Finland. He wanted to occupy Ukraine within days or weeks. Well, now we are unfortunately in the fourth year of the war. And I think it is so important that we, on our side, tell the truth what is going on in Russia with a war economy, with skyrocketing interest rates and inflation, completely isolated. And now this is a war of attrition. And in this war of attrition, it is of utmost importance that we push forward the negotiations and put pressure on Putin that he finally comes to the negotiation table.

[00:07:07] Speaker 3: So, I need to ask you a political question because a lot of people at home are interested. You've just spoken about the amount of money that needs to be spent on the Ukraine defense, on Britain, on Europe. That takes politics and convincing. You have – I want to ask you, do you think you narrowly just miss being toppled? Do you think that what's happening in the politics at home is distracting you and perhaps making you vulnerable to a Brexit follow, you know, the reform party or even maybe the conservatives who might not want to pursue the kind of politics that you want to pursue?

[00:07:42] Speaker 1: No, I reject that. I ended the week much stronger than I started it and that's a very good place to be. And my party and my government is completely united on the question of Ukraine and defense and security and the need for stronger relations with Europe on defense, on security and on economy as well. And so, I think that there is real strength in the position I've now set out. I think there'll be – the whole of the government is united behind that. I think actually it unites across the House of Commons. Not everybody, I accept. Reform have a different agenda. They're pro-Putin. We know where they stand. Imagine if they were in government in the United Kingdom. The coalition of the willing could not exist with UK participation in it. We would not be seen as a leader on the European or international stage. We would be seen as a country that people couldn't do business with. So, it's not universal across our parliament, but there's a very strong feeling amongst right-minded politicians that we stick together on Ukraine. So, for all of the divisions that you have to get in politics, there are some real clarity and some real certainty on these key issues.