Hind Kabawat rejects token role in Syria’s cabinet (Full Transcript)

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Now, a little more than a year ago, Syria's decades-long dictatorship suddenly collapsed. Bashar al-Assad fled as rebel fighters poured into the capital. A former commander linked to al-Qaeda is now President Ahmad al-Shara and positions himself as a pragmatist. His first 23-member interim cabinet announced last March includes only one woman who is also the only Christian, Hind Kabawat. A former opposition leader and lawyer has taken on the Ministry of Social Affairs and Labour and that means she's tackling some of the toughest issues. Let's bring you a special report now for the BBC's Global Women series. Our Chief International Correspondent, Lise Doucette, spent time with her in Syria to see what challenges she faces.

[00:00:41] Speaker 2: Oh my God, you have to meet these two women. Hind Kabawat's ministry. New staff. Many women. They have positions?

[00:00:50] Speaker 3: They have positions and now we are supporting them and they're doing an amazing job, better than all the men. It's too hot here.

[00:00:58] Speaker 4: Wow, look at this, Wazir.

[00:01:00] Speaker 2: To her office, Hind brings her own history, educated in the East and West, lawyer, former opposition leader, living in exile for 14 years. Now a seat at the top table. You have said that not including more women at that cabinet level was one of the biggest mistakes of the first year in power.

[00:01:23] Speaker 3: Of course, the first day we were there, I told them, why there is no more women? What does he say? He said, it's coming. We are, we are transition. They might change us after one year. I hope that next year when they change, they will bring five, six women because they are very qualified, not because of women.

[00:01:42] Speaker 2: You don't feel that Hind Kabawat is the token woman in the government?

[00:01:46] Speaker 3: I don't feel myself a Christian or a woman when I do my job. I feel like I'm a citizen of Syria. I have a duty to help and serve. The minute I don't see, I have the freedom to do my own strategy, my own plan, my own budget. Why? I'm not a window dressing. Hello? I'm not a window dressing.

[00:02:07] Speaker 2: Today, the minister takes her team to Idlib, the former rebel stronghold of the men now in charge. Fourteen years of war left many wounds. This is one. Hundreds of thousands of displaced people still languish in camps like this. Hind is here to hear their stories.

[00:02:31] Speaker 5: Our villages were completely destroyed. The civil defense forces had to open up roads so we can tell our houses apart.

[00:02:39] Speaker 2: Families live in flimsy tents, in pain, poverty, and no aid from anyone.

[00:02:46] Speaker 3: Do you fear that people's patience will run out? Of course, and they're right. You put yourself into their shoes and we don't have the money. And if we don't have united effort from the international community to help, at least building some houses for those people, because this is hard for them.

[00:03:07] Speaker 2: There are still long shadows at the start of Syria's new day. A country some call a mosaic. Many traditions and sects. War created deep cracks. Some fear they're getting worse. Alawites, Druze, Kurds, all accuse Syria's new leaders, former fighters, all Sunni Muslims, of turning their guns against them. In the past year, there was this massacre in the coastal areas. 1,400 people killed. And the inquiry said possible war crimes were committed, again, violence in the south against the Druze. This has opened a wound. Did the government make mistakes in how it responded? Mistakes happen in transition, in post-conflict.

[00:03:59] Speaker 3: More than just mistakes? Yeah, but what happened, immediately there is a commission of inquiry, there is investigation. And I know now so many of those who committed those crimes are in prison. Am I happy about it? Of course not. Not even the president, everyone, we're not happy.

[00:04:21] Speaker 2: Syrians still celebrate the end of decades of dictatorship. A year is a short time to move from war to peace. But Syrians now want to see clearer signs that this is a new start.

[00:04:38] Speaker 1: Eileen Lees is with us now here in the studio, and she's joined by Alina Shaikouni from the BBC World Service. Alina, this was your idea, this documentary and this story, and it is such a compelling one. But I wonder, when we talk about Hind Kabawet, she's obviously an important symbol to many, but is she universally loved in Syria?

[00:04:57] Speaker 4: I mean, you can see when we were with her and we went to a conference in Idlib, and it was a conference for women, there were students that came in that actually she taught during the 14 years of war. And these were young girls in their 20s, and they were saying how optimistic they are with having her there and in power. And one of them was like wagging her finger and saying, you know, we want to be, she taught us to be decision makers, we want to be decision makers, and we're very optimistic with having her. On the other side, you know, there are lots of challenges facing a lot of women all over the country, you know, since December 2024, and the fall of Assad, there's been reports of kidnappings and challenges that the women are facing themselves. So there are other women who are working on other portfolios who are doing it in tandem to what Hind is doing. So they might not feel that, you know, regardless of having her, they're still doing their own stuff.

[00:06:02] Speaker 1: She makes a very clear point. I am not just window dressing. Is she making a difference?

[00:06:06] Speaker 4: I think she is in certain circles, and having her there is definitely important. But she also says, I shouldn't be the only one, there should be more so that because of these issues that are affecting women post the fall of the regime of Assad, there should be more women there, there should be more women who have platforms to change things, to ameliorate the situation for women all through Syria.