How wealth and social media are reshaping fashion power (Full Transcript)

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: So I'm Audie Cornish, and this is The Assignment, and we're in the middle of what you could call the playoffs of fashion. So the Golden Globes and the Grammys, they just kicked off the like red carpet competition, and then the Winter Fashion Week season is underway, and that means there are shows in Milan and Paris, and then there is a round coming up in New York, but here's the thing, this all ends with Fashion Super Bowl in May, the Met Gala, and like that's the kind of event that you, you know, you can't buy your way in, or can you? Because Jeff Bezos and his wife, Lauren Sanchez, have been literally ushered to the front row in recent weeks, and people have thoughts about who the devil will cozy up with to stay in Prada. I know, I know you like that. So I'm bringing in a special guest who is new to CNN, but is definitely not new to fashion, and we are catching her before she takes off to Manhattan. Rachel, will you introduce yourself?

[00:01:00] Speaker 2: My name is Rachel Taschen, and I am a senior style reporter for CNN. And proud dog owner. Proud dog owner of Ritz, the miniature dogs. Ritz.

[00:01:13] Speaker 1: So we know, we know already you're ready for this conversation. Because that, that's the vibe for fashion right now. So fashion and style, in my brain, is about power. How do you see the beat?

[00:01:26] Speaker 2: It's very much about power. And it's increasingly about wealth. It's a lot about access. But I would also say, you know, the reason why I say fashion and style is because I think of style in some ways as the counterpoint to fashion, maybe in some ways the antidote, because it's much more about identity and self-expression. And I think we have those two sort of competing interests really coming to a head in this fashion season that we're in the midst of, as you said.

[00:01:58] Speaker 1: So fashion is always about, like, aspiration, right? And like what we want to look like, and what we fantasize about looking like. And I feel like over the last few years, because of social media, people have really argued about if that's really happening, right? Does it sort of flatten the hierarchy of fashion writing? And even for the designers themselves, who are now like sometimes catering to customers in a way that like, I think they didn't anticipate. And that's been surfacing in little, like, sort of, I would call fashion skirmishes. I don't know if you agree, but if you do, do you have an example of one?

[00:02:42] Speaker 2: I mean, to me, it's fascinating to see the conversations so bifurcated when you are attending fashion shows, you know? I think it's always been the case that fashion has been closed off and very exclusive, whether we're talking about fashion shows, or talking about the Met Gala, or even the institution of Vogue and Conde Nast. But you have sort of like one conversation that happens in the room of these fashion shows or fashion institutions, and then you have online commentary, which in many cases is more powerful and more potent than what is being produced in the rooms or the corridors of fashion power itself.

[00:03:26] Speaker 1: So this year, the thing that people have been buzzing about is seeing the Bezos couple, the Bezos newlyweds, not just attending events, but attending events on the arms of some very significant fashion figures. One being Miss Anna Wintour, as people know her formal title, is Chief Content Officer of Conde Nast and Global Editorial Director of Vogue. And also La Roche, who is the super stylist, calls himself an image architect, who has built up people like Zendaya into being like red carpet A-listers. As in, you could be talented already, a la Zendaya, but you become a superstar when you undergo this sort of red carpet transition from Normie to fashion idol. The other person who's in the middle of doing this transition, I would say, is AoE de Berry from The Bear, who kind of, even though in The Bear she's not dressed like much, she has dressed her way to a Chanel sponsorship, just like a wild, fast rocket. So I want to talk about the power at play that we're seeing, how people try and wield fashion for cultural cachet and power, and how fashion responds.

[00:04:57] Speaker 2: Fashion has become such a significant tool for celebrities to sort of augment their sense of artistry, I think. With someone like Ayo, or I mean, Zendaya is another great example. You have very talented actors who are at the beginning, both of them at the beginning of their career. Obviously, we've known Zendaya for a little bit longer than we've known Ayo, but we don't have a full sense of who they are as a person, or an artist, or even a celebrity. But they've demonstrated by making really bold and risky fashion choices, that they have this, I think, additional side to them, that they understand something about the world of fashion. Which is, I would say, it's interesting to think about that, because look, why does that work? Like, showing someone that you- Well, I mean, can I jump in here?

[00:05:55] Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Because in the past, you made it to the A-list, and then you had access to the fashion. Because once you made it to the A-list, you could convince a fashion world, especially I would say in the 90s, that began to see actors as potential advertisements for the clothing. And it helped women close the financial gap for the onset salaries. So maybe you weren't making as much money as your male co-star, but guess what? Between David Yurman bracelets, and modeling, and fashion, and the red carpet, you kind of built up a persona that brands wanted to attach themselves to, and would pay for. And to me, that's something that, growing up, that would happen when you became Julia Roberts. Yes. Julia Roberts did it after Mystic Pizza, and just was like, I'm here, you know, like, on the red carpet.

[00:06:50] Speaker 2: Yeah. It's interesting, when you think about that power dynamic with, in particular with Zendaya and Ayo Edibiri, it's, you know, they began their sort of, like, fashion ascent, both of them working with things that were not particularly desirable. I mean, one thing that Law Roach has spoken quite a bit about in his memoir, and also in interviews, is, you know, he loves vintage clothing. And at the beginning of Zendaya's career, when they couldn't get those big kind of Dior, or Margiela, or Chanel pieces that were fresh off the runway, he was pulling older clothes. And he thought, OK, this is what nobody, nobody thinks this is interesting, but I'm actually going to make this into a really interesting statement about, you know, how Zendaya and I have this deeper understanding of fashion and fashion history, and we're doing something more complex with our storytelling on the red carpet.

[00:07:50] Speaker 1: And now, fast forward, quote unquote, vintage pulls are all the rage. Because now, in this era where the uber-wealthy, there's so many more of them, as we know, there are literally more billionaires now in the U.S., it's not enough to get the purse. It's not enough to do any of that. You have to get a full experience, so to speak, right? And you have to sell that to the audience. So Kim Kardashian can't wear a dress. She has to wear Marilyn Monroe's dress. You know what I mean? Like, there always has to be this big, elaborate story to tell, especially if you want something to go viral, which is like kind of the new currency.

[00:08:31] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting to think about how these dynamics have changed, and because I think it comes back to the shifting sands of power, right? I mean, it's interesting to think about, you know, even five or ten years ago, you know, a trend would have come from sort of on high, right? A trend would have been handed down. And I'm thinking in particular of the vintage phenomenon that you're talking about. But that is really something that snowballed and became a kind of currency, became something worth bragging about, because it was built up on social media. And I think that's really fascinating. I mean, I think all of the time, as I'm sure many of your listeners do, about that famous Cerulean belt monologue from The Devil Wears Prada that essentially explains the chain of fashion influence.

[00:09:23] Speaker 3: And it's sort of comical how you think that you've made a choice that exempts you from the fashion industry, when in fact, you're wearing a sweater that was selected for you by the people in this room from a pile of stuff.

[00:09:36] Speaker 2: And fashion simply doesn't work that way anymore, you know? It comes from people like, you know, now La Roche, of course, is very famous. He's working with Lauren Sanchez, as we can talk about. But in his beginnings, when he just had one client, Zendaya, and he was really just working out of his apartment and finding the cool vintage pieces that were not super expensive or that he could borrow for a small fee, you know, he was able to build that into what is now this huge, dominating phenomenon of red carpet dressing.

[00:10:09] Speaker 1: There was Paris Couture Week, and by the way, there's many Fashion Weeks, but this is the one we're talking about, because in a way, this was a kind of debut of sorts for Lauren Sanchez, right? Like, she's been to Fashion Weeks before. They have a ton of money. We get that. But this is fresh off the wedding, fresh off an American Vogue cover, and now virtually at the arm of Anna Wintour. And the reason why, in a way, I wanted to do this conversation is, obviously, we've all heard so many criticisms of Wintour over the 30 years, for example, that she's been running, like, the Met Gala, let's say, because, like, she's literally famous for being a snob, like, exclusivity and all of these things. But it's tinged with something else in the criticism now. I want to play something for you.

[00:10:56] Speaker 4: It's like, you could just f***ing retire. Go home to your millions, your country home, and kids. By now, you got grandbabies, but you'd rather usher capitalism's concubine around parents. And for what? For who? For why? To make sure you land on the wrong side of history? To ensure when your obituary is written, it will say Diet Nazi?

[00:11:16] Speaker 1: So that is one of my favorite follows on Instagram, Blakely Thornton. Because he describes it in his bio, a fashion critic, timesheet signatory, petty Scorpio. He's also the host of the Yestergaze podcast. But the reason why I played this is because all he does is distill a weird kind of consensus that's brewing in, I would say, anti-vogue circles. But there's something about this that has incensed them. And what do you think it is?

[00:11:46] Speaker 2: You know, I have to say, I was very surprised as well to see not Lauren Sanchez, but Jeff Bezos at the shows. You know, I've seen, Lauren Sanchez has gone to fashion shows before. She wore a lot of high-end, very rare, special, made-to-order clothing for her wedding. Obviously, she was on the cover of Vogue. And I think, you know, as I'm sure you remember, Audie, that was very controversial as well.

[00:12:14] Speaker 1: It was a huge deal. It was a little bit like when Kanye and Kim were on the cover.

[00:12:17] Speaker 2: Exactly. It was the exact same reaction, this feeling that this is not Vogue or that she somehow has not earned the place to be, you know, on the cover of Vogue. Although some pointed out, well, it's a digital cover, so, you know, that's not as good.

[00:12:33] Speaker 5: That's a reach. Yeah. That's a reach. But yeah.

[00:12:38] Speaker 2: She's, you know, and of course, it was announced in November when the Met Gala sort of theme is revealed for, you know, the following year, it was announced that Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez were sponsoring the Met Gala. So we've kind of had her circling around this world for a while. And she did work with a stylist previously named Molly Dixon, who was Sidney Sweeney's stylist.

[00:13:04] Speaker 1: Who is also not having a good couple of months, if we're being honest. Yes. Lots of people are hating on them, in a way for the same reason, perceived politics. Yes. Sidney Sweeney's star has risen and fairly or unfairly, because she has denied it, people have read her politics and her place in the culture through the lens of MAGA politics and orientation around kind of like white people and white imagery, which we see on like, you know, administration, social media feeds and things like that. I think with Anna Wintour, the thing is she sold us on the concept that like, you couldn't really buy your way in. You had to have taste. And it was so exclusive. And it's like the same reason why people were irritated during Kardashian's transition, because it felt like here's a person who, and this is not a diss on her because it's very clearly she had a fashion evolution. It went from kind of tacky to taste. And I think people feel like Sanchez is buying her way in. And that given the political climate, Wintour is, yeah, as he said, a sellout. I mean, I think even though she's not that political, I know she's a Democratic fundraiser, but I never looked at Anna Wintour and thought like, viva la resistance.

[00:14:22] Speaker 2: Right. And I think that's certainly a correct observation. I mean, I think we have this understanding or this assumption that you can't buy your way into the Met Gala, that Vogue represents a certain standard. But I would also say that if you look at what has happened culturally, you know, if you look at Anna Wintour's actions, I would say that that's not necessarily true. You know, you almost have to wonder, is she like the last person in culture who still believes in the power of the makeover? Right. Because if you look at, I think a lot about, you know, Oprah Winfrey on the cover of Vogue, and she famously told Oprah Winfrey to lose weight before she appeared on that cover. And again, we see, as you brought up, Kim Kardashian and Kanye West. There was so much drama over whether or not they deserved to be on the cover, whether they were worthy of a Vogue cover.

[00:15:20] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[00:15:20] Speaker 2: But, you know, that was again a moment where, you know, Kanye West and the former editor of French Vogue, Karine Whitefeld, kind of did a makeover on Kim.

[00:15:32] Speaker 1: You can see it happening in real time, right? Exactly. Someone actually said that they thought Sanchez, who apparently is friends with the Kardashians, is actually pulling directly from that playbook of like how to reinvent your image for the culture and in a way like upgrade it into this fashion status.

[00:15:54] Speaker 2: That was actually in my piece that I wrote.

[00:15:56] Speaker 1: Oh, wait. Let me check my notes.

[00:15:59] Speaker 5: No, it's okay. Yeah.

[00:16:00] Speaker 1: It is you, actually. There you go. I'm glad. So talk more about that, because with Kim Kardashian, it was successful. She doesn't she doesn't look like she did before her marriage, obviously. And while that a lot of that is attributed to West, like it's very clear that she wanted to be in another income bracket of brand. But when you're the wife of Jeff Bezos, like what are you trying? You're already in every inner circle you can be in. What's the point of do you know what I mean of like the Chappelle and the like trying to prove you're in that circle as well?

[00:16:38] Speaker 2: Fashion likes to cultivate an exclusionary atmosphere, whether that's true or not. I mean, there's always another layer of knowledge that, you know, a person doesn't know. And I would say that something that is interesting about Kim Kardashian and her trajectory, which again, I think Lauren Sanchez is looking at it sort of modeling herself after, is that there's a difference between wearing Balmain or Hervé Leger bandage dresses and wearing Margiela Couture designed by Galeano. Now, all of that sounded like babble. You know what I just said? It's like totally meaningless.

[00:17:18] Speaker 1: We'll talk about Galeano in a minute.

[00:17:20] Speaker 2: And I think to most people, there is no difference between, you know, wearing those brand names and those designers. But the reality is for a very small number of people who follow these things, who follow fashion in this kind of obsessive, I would say it's almost like sports fanaticism. You know, those are really important lines. And so to see, you know, Lauren Sanchez, who wore, for example, Oscar de la Renta to the Met Gala, which she attended in 2024, you know, Oscar de la Renta, a wonderful, important American brand. Countless first ladies have worn it.

[00:18:01] Speaker 5: I was just going to say first ladies. It gives to me matronly taste. Exactly. Yeah.

[00:18:07] Speaker 2: But then you have that same year, Kim Kardashian squeezing herself into this tiny corset designed by John Galeano, who's sort of like, you know, he's a very controversial figure. But for fashion fanatics and insiders, he is the creme de la creme of sort of genius artist designers. He's a very close friend of Anna Wintour's.

[00:18:28] Speaker 1: And has remained so throughout the controversy over his very public antisemitism. Exactly. This season, he's back hanging around.

[00:18:37] Speaker 2: Yeah. There's a difference for sort of fashion, true fashion insiders between the pretty overflowing Oscar de la Renta off the shoulder ball gown and the extreme sort of I think I'd even described it as body horror, Martin Margiela, John Galeano dress. And I think what Lauren Sanchez is trying to do is cross that Rubicon, which is to most of us quite invisible and sort of get into that inner circle. Of respect.

[00:19:09] Speaker 1: I want to use the word respect, right? Instead of people seeing you as the trophy wife or an ex-newscaster and the criticism that comes with our clothing, go ahead, come at me, I don't care. You have to come up with it every day. You're going to a new status, literally.

[00:19:27] Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think that is why people are so disturbed by this, because maybe there's a sense that you really like Zendaya or Ayo, you have to have special taste that or an idea about fashion that brings you into that inner circle or a talent. Yes.

[00:19:48] Speaker 1: I mean, I think where people are not clear where the talents lie with some of the names we brought up.

[00:19:54] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:19:54] Speaker 1: And other than being public.

[00:19:56] Speaker 2: Right. And so I think her presence, she's either working with or is hanging out with La Roche. That's a little unclear. But also spending a lot of time with Anna Wintour. Obviously she's going to have a huge presence at the Met Gala. I think there's a feeling that, you know, oh my gosh, you can just say that you know about this stuff. And I think that's very, that's very shocking to people.

[00:20:23] Speaker 1: I want to give you my other theory about why the fashion world has so embraced the new billionaire political class. First money. Like let's just get that down. Like we are now in a situation where, you know, the U.S. literally has more billionaires than it did. I was reading over 900 up from a lowly 813 in 2024. So that means like a whole host of people who have just had a boost. You've got the fashion world talking about V.I.C.s, very important customers, not people, customers and creating like shopping experiences for them. And the death of a term I had not heard, which was mastige, like the world of brands that a working class person or a middle class person could aspire to. You get that raise, you get that new job, you reach a point in your life and now you reach for a handbag or a coat in a tier of fashion that like you can attain. Right. But that is still respected. And correct me if I'm wrong. Like first, just tell me what is mastige so I can check my closet. And two, did it fully collapse?

[00:21:43] Speaker 2: So you know, the fashion industry for a long time has been predicated on the idea that there are these over-the-top runway shows with crazy designs, most of which are in the thousands, if not tens of thousands, in some cases hundreds of thousands of dollars. You know, or just priceless.

[00:22:01] Speaker 1: It's like couture and then it works in tiers working your way down.

[00:22:05] Speaker 2: And the idea was that, you know, OK, most people will not be buying, you know, a $10,000 jacket, but they will be able to save up for the handbag or the pair of shoes. And the reality is that that system has collapsed. So yes, there's that sense of mastige, you know, of, OK, I can't afford the top level item or, you know, a piece of runway clothing, but I can afford the handbag or the perfume. I mean, that has essentially disappeared for two reasons, I would say. One is that, you know, in the United States, as you're saying, there's a huge number of billionaires. But there's also a shrinking middle class. And so, you know, people just can't really wrap their heads around trying to afford these handbags or even in some cases the makeup. You know, Louis Vuitton sells lipsticks for over $100. But I think the other piece of this is that fashion brands have made things more and more and more expensive. You know, the price of a Chanel handbag has doubled over the past five or six years. Wait, five years? Mm-hmm.

[00:23:16] Speaker 1: I thought it was going to be like 15 years.

[00:23:20] Speaker 2: No. And so, you know, fashion brands are relying more and more on these VICs, very important clients or very important customers, to, you know, really puff up the profits and the revenues of the fashion companies because they're like, OK, we can't rely on zillions of people buying handbags and perfumes. We really need to cultivate and serve these clients who are going to buy the $100,000 crocodile coat.

[00:23:50] Speaker 1: And we'll keep buying. Right. Like we pull back. If you're in a certain class in the U.S. and you reach your threshold and something happens with your job or whatever, you pull back on your spending. And what I've seen the wealth class do, influencers and things like that, through that my people of their world, is find different ways to spend because they're not going to stop spending. And so first it was like stealth wealth, like you guys are all dying in the pandemic. Well, my sweater doesn't have tags, you know, like not all heroes are not wearing capes. Like it was very hide it. And then it was like, we're back. Color, we're all away. And now it's like loud, you know, it's like the yacht purchasing. It's very sort of loud and rich talk. The people who are on TikTok showing their wealth, like the way they're managing is to get through it.

[00:24:43] Speaker 2: Well, and that's such an interesting point, too, because, you know, you've made me realize the shopping, the presenting of the shopping has become an essential part of it. Yes.

[00:24:51] Speaker 1: The act of shopping is the experience that is aspirational, not the clothes.

[00:24:56] Speaker 2: The unboxing of the Hermes bag that you've managed to get.

[00:25:01] Speaker 1: I was thinking that since you're at the shows, the shows, can you tell me which designers you're watching that we will be seeing on the red carpet more or that are going to like punch through in the culture because of their craft and not because of their billionaire front row?

[00:25:24] Speaker 2: I would say the first person who comes to mind is Daniel Roseberry, who's the designer of Scarparelli. And he's had a great couple of weeks because he designed the dress that Tiana Taylor wore when she won her Golden Globe for Best Supporting Actress.

[00:25:40] Speaker 1: And for people who may not remember, it was this very sort of chic, black, slinky dress, which had a kind of traditional looking silhouette, but was revealing in that it had, I think, like a diamond encrusted thong peekaboo window.

[00:25:57] Speaker 2: Am I describing any of this correct? Yes, you are. Yes. So it was essentially backless and then it ended in the back with a rhinestone bow-shaped thong.

[00:26:11] Speaker 1: Yeah. And while all that may sound tacky when I've described it, it was actually stunning because she's beautiful and there was something about the way that it was designed that actually came off as elegant. And because she's, you know, a singer, rapper, dancer, still young and like kind of had good energy.

[00:26:32] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And he also dressed Bad Bunny for the Grammys. So that sort of velvet dinner jacket that's very macho with those big shoulders and the nipped waist was also by Scarparelli. And I think, you know, it's a brand, it's a French brand with an American designer. And Daniel Roseberry, the designer, is very fascinated by celebrity. But he's not, you know, he doesn't see it, I think, as a pure marketing tool. I think he sees it as a way to, you know, it's a bit like what we were talking about in the beginning. These women like Zendaya and Ayodebiri who are like able to augment their sense of artistry or their sense of celebrity or public profile by wearing something unexpected. And I think he understands how to play that game or make those sorts of statements.

[00:27:28] Speaker 1: Can I give you mine? My person I'm watching? Yeah. Willy Chavarria. Am I saying his name correctly? Yes. Yes. I keep pitching him to the show and he's not answering. But he's from California. He was at Calvin Klein, which you know. I like a good California designer. And he also is not afraid of politics.

[00:27:50] Speaker 2: He's not afraid of politics. I mean, he's made some very pointed statements on the runway with his shows. The last show of his that I went to in New York City, which I believe was a year ago, was sponsored in part by the ACLU. So that was a huge part of the narrative on his runway. The other thing I would just say is so great and powerful about what he does is that he's looking at the style of the people he grew up around, the community that he grew up with, and he's saying, this is really cool and this is what people should be aspiring to.

[00:28:28] Speaker 1: Yeah. The tailoring is razor sharp. Yes. Especially the last show, which I was looking at online. The tailoring is razor sharp. It's a nod to some, if people know any history of kind of like Chicano suiting and things like that, please look it up. He's nodding to the history, but it all feels super modern. It definitely feels like someone who used to work at Calvin Klein. It actually looks wearable. And I found myself wanting to do that mastige thing where I'm like, can I buy a hat? Like, is that cool? Like, what could I, how can I get a piece of this experience and what this person is putting out in the world?

[00:29:01] Speaker 2: It really reminds me of Ralph Lauren. Yeah. And, you know, the way that Ralph Lauren sort of looked at a world that, you know, was about the world of white Anglo-Saxon Protestant clothing and what people wear to play tennis at the country club. You know, that's really more about style than it is about a particular brand or designer. And he thought, oh, I can sort of take the codes of that and turn up the volume and make it into something that anybody can play with and be a little provocative with. And I think Willie does a very similar thing with these, you know, kind of recognizable style codes from the Chicano and Latino communities.

[00:29:50] Speaker 1: All right. Well, Rachel, thank you so much for talking with me. Can you tell people where they can find you?

[00:29:56] Speaker 2: So I am writing weekly for CNN.com, and I'm also producing quite a lot of videos which appear on our website, on our app, and on my Instagram, which is The Profit Pizza. All right, Profit Pizza. Thank you. Thank you.