Speaker 1: We're less than 24 hours away from the execution of Julius Jones, which will take place tomorrow afternoon if Oklahoma Governor Kevin Stitt doesn't stop it. The Oklahoma Parole Board has said twice that Jones' sentence should be commuted. Yesterday, journalist Mara Scalvacampo spoke to Jones, asking him what he would say to the family of the man he was convicted of killing.

Speaker 2: What do you want to say to Paul Howell's family?

Speaker 3: I love them. I love them and I forgive them. They hate me and they don't really know why. But at the appointed moment, they will know the truth. And I hope one day that they open up their eyes and see the truth. But at this point, man, I hope they heal first. Out of all things, I hope they find healing. I've never had any ill will towards them. I don't wish them ill will. I pray for them constantly.

Speaker 2: You seem to almost always be worried only about your mother. What do you want to say to your mom?

Speaker 3: I'm blessed that I was able to come into this world to be raised by you and my father. I mean, to have the brother and sister I have, I don't really have the words. I wish I was always here to protect them, comfort them, lift them up. But hopefully, man, you know, if I'm not here, they will remember, you know what I'm saying, that that was always my intention. You know, I'm sorry I was a bad shit. I'm sorry I made mistakes. But you know I'm not a killer. I'm not a murderer.

Speaker 1: Mara Scavacampo, journalist and host of the Runtel, this podcast, joins me now. And my dear friend, Mara, this is hard. Did Mr. Jones' mom get to see him today?

Speaker 2: Yeah, Joey, this is one of the most heartbreaking stories that I have ever covered. And, you know, I just watched your segment with Nikole Hannah-Jones and kind of talking about the history of Black children. And as a Black mother, I feel so much empathy for his mother. His family did visit with him today, but they told me that they were denied a contact visit, meaning they were not allowed to touch him. They had the visit through the glasses. They would have any standard visit, even though it is very possible that that is going to be their last time seeing him alive ever. And he told me that the last time he ever touched his mother was when he hugged her during the trial in 1999. His mother has not hugged her son for 22 years. She went there today to hold him in her arms for one final time, and she was denied even that dignity. It is inhumane the way that this is being managed. And the governor still has not said a word about his own parole board's recommendation to commute this death sentence.

Speaker 1: It is shocking to me that this is, well, it is not shocking to me, actually. This is exactly what we should expect, because this is what we have done in this country for decade after decade after decade after decade. Is there anything left that the Jones family can do? Is there anything left that the people can do? I have gotten so many DMs and texts and people saying, what can we do? Is there anything left that can be done?

Speaker 2: Yeah, well, there's a problem built into the fact that not enough people even know about this. And that tells you a lot about how little Black life matters, because a lot of people are just learning about this today, and we're less than one day out from this scheduled execution. People can call the governor. The Justice for Julius Coalition has put out information on reaching the governor's office. They can sign a petition on change.org. That petition has almost 7 million signatures. And this family is an incredibly faith-filled family. And they are asking people to pray. There is still time for the governor to rule on this. And just as a reminder, commuting the sentence is not a pardon. It's simply commuting it from a death sentence to a life sentence so that the mistake is not made of executing a potentially innocent man. And a lot of people have had questions about Julius' guilt for more than 20 years now.

Speaker 1: And what else did he say? You spoke to him. How long did you get to talk to him? And what else did he want the world to know about him?

Speaker 2: Well, we spoke for about 20 minutes, and we've spoken several times over the last year that I've been covering this story. And he is incredibly respectful. So he has never authorized me to record our calls or to report any of what we discussed, because he doesn't have permission to do media interviews. But yesterday, he did give me permission to record the call, because he is aware that these are likely going to be his last words to the public. And what has been most important to him consistently every time I've spoken to him is that he wants the world to know he is not a murderer. He is adamant about his innocence. And he is also focused almost exclusively on his mother and his sister's well-being. So this is someone who is really concerned about how they're going to do after he's gone.

Speaker 1: As well, we should all be. We should just be praying for that family. Governor Stitt, if you are watching this or you get a clip of this, you can easily show mercy to this young man. Let him fight for his freedom. Let him fight for his freedom. My God, we have to be better than this at some point in our history. Mara Scavacampo, thank you. Thank you.