Kathy Rumler resigns as Epstein emails draw scrutiny (Full Transcript)

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Fallout from the Jeffrey Epstein files has now reached one of the largest investment banks in the world, Goldman Sachs. The bank's chief legal officer, Kathy Rumler, now says she is resigning. In recent weeks, she has weathered numerous stories examining her relationship with Epstein over the years. Rumler is a former White House counsel to President Obama. She and those around her have insisted that her relationship with Epstein, it was a professional relationship through and through and ended. A spokesperson for Rumler declined to answer some of the detailed questions sent to them from CNN, but said that Rumler said this, has done nothing wrong, has nothing to hide, nothing in the record suggests otherwise, adding that Rumler has been clear and consistent from the outset. She knew him through her work as a criminal defense attorney, shared a client with him, received referrals from him, and was friendly in that professional context. After her announcement, her resignation announcement, the CEO of Goldman Sachs, David Solomon, told CNN this, throughout her tenure, Kathy has been an extraordinary general counsel and we are grateful for her contributions. He went on to say, I accept, I accepted her resignation and I respect her decision.

[00:01:06] Speaker 2: An exclusive K-file report uncovering new details about top Goldman Sachs executive and former Obama White House counsel, Kathy Rumler's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. A review of hundreds of emails between Epstein and Rumler, a woman he once called his quote, great defender, shows discussions about Epstein's legal and reputational troubles, as well as more personal communications, like plans for a proposed trip to Epstein's island and gifts he'd given her. Rumler has repeatedly said she regrets ever knowing Epstein and that she had quote, no knowledge of any new or ongoing unlawful activity on his part. That's her quote. Out front now, K-file's Andrew Kaczynski, who has been breaking all of this reporting. So Andrew, what have you found?

[00:01:50] Speaker 3: Well, Erin, these new messages reveal even more details about Kathy Rumler's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. A relationship that according to these emails, both of them described as a friendship. There are hundreds of email exchanges between the two. Some of the messages they discussed Epstein's legal battles and reputational problems after his 2008 conviction. Other communications between the two include plans for a proposed trip to Epstein's island and responses to gifts he'd given Rumler. And since she wrote quote, totally tricked out by uncle Jeffrey today, Jeffrey boots, handbag and watch. Now in some of these back and forth messages, Rumler discussed personal matters in her life. She expressed gratitude for their quote, friendship, sometimes concluded her messages to Epstein with the sign of XO and XOXO. There's one example we found where Rumler sent Epstein a message on his 62nd birthday in 2015 to wish him well, writing, I hope you enjoy the day with your one true love, adding a smiley face. Epstein replied with a raunchy note and an apparent reference to masturbation, writing, they say men usually give a name to their penis as it would be inappropriate to make love to a total stranger. Now after receiving Epstein's racy reply, Rumler responded, hard to believe there is still an open question about whether men are the inferior gender.

[00:03:12] Speaker 2: Okay. Um, so what has Rumler said about this message?

[00:03:17] Speaker 3: Well, Aaron, uh, we asked him about that and they referred this exchange, uh, Rumler and her communications team referred CNN's questions about this to her attorney, Tom Clare. And this is what he told us. He said, quote, the fact is Ms. Rumler does not make any statement about Epstein's penis. She does not reference it. She does not joke about it. She does not banter with Epstein about it. She does not accede to Epstein's unsolicited, gratuitous remarks about men and their penises, nothing. Her participation in the entire exchange, uh, in, I think he meant is limited to wishing Epstein a happy birthday, ridiculing Epstein for the remark and exiting the exchange.

[00:03:54] Speaker 2: Okay. So the files also reveal new details about how Rumler advised Epstein regarding some of his legal and reputational problems. So what more can you tell us about that tonight?

[00:04:05] Speaker 3: Well, yeah, that's right, Aaron. In one exchange from February, 2015, Rumler addressed a Crimes Victims Rights Act lawsuit brought by Epstein's accusers. That's the lawsuit, which thought, sought to reopen his so-called sweetheart plea deal from 2008. Rumler wrote to Epstein, Rumler wrote to Epstein. I told you that the CVRA case is about money. And in another message, after inquiring about which lawyer was handling the case, Rumler wrote victims rights, my ass. In another message from July, 2015, Rumler forwarded Epstein a New York Times story, which featured critics of sex offender registries, like the one Epstein had been listed on for years by then. Did you see the New York Times story, Ray, misapplication of sex offender registry, thinking about whether there is an opportunity there, Rumler wrote. Now, a spokesperson for Rumler told CNN in a statement that Epstein, quote, sought informal advice, and she provided feedback based on her understanding at the time without any formal involvement.

[00:04:59] Speaker 2: Okay, well, you also found emails that show Rumler responding to an invitation from Epstein to visit that infamous private Caribbean island, right?

[00:05:07] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. Absolutely. According to the newly released files, Rumler at one point inquired about taking a, quote, day trip to Epstein's private island. In a January 16, 2017 email that you can see right here, Epstein asked if he could have a plane pick her up in St. Lucia to fly her to, quote, the island. Rumler replied, asking, can we take a day trip to the island on Saturday, or is it too far? Emails then show a week later, Epstein appearing to coordinate a private jet to pick her up and referencing a copy of Rumler's passport. This trip appears to have fallen through, though, with Rumler writing two days later there was, quote, still too much risk in the air. Later that year, a topic of the island actually came up again in messages between the two. After Hurricane Irma damaged the island, Rumler mused about traveling there to help Epstein clean up, writing, you know how much I like physical labor. It's unclear whether Rumler ever visited the island, and she has denied ever going there.

[00:06:02] Speaker 2: Okay, so what is she saying about these emails then?

[00:06:06] Speaker 3: So, Aaron, Jennifer Connelly, Rumler's spokesperson, declined to answer some of the detailed questions from CNN, but she told us this, quote, Ms. Rumler has done nothing wrong and has nothing to hide. Nothing in the records suggests otherwise. Jeffrey Epstein was a man of a thousand faces. Ms. Rumler only saw the one he put on to win people over and gain credibility and acceptance. Her views were shaped by that and his denials of any wrongdoing other than what he had pled guilty to years prior. Ms. Rumler has been clear and consistent from the outset. She knew him through her work as a criminal defense attorney, shared a client with him, received referrals from him, and was friendly in that professional context. At times, Epstein sought informal advice, and she provided feedback based on her understanding at the time without any formal involvement. Ms. Rumler has deep sympathy for those harmed by Epstein, and if she knew then what she knows now, she never would have dealt with him. Aaron.

[00:06:55] Speaker 2: All right, Andrew Kaczynski from KFAO with more incredible reporting on this story. Thank you.

[00:07:01] Speaker 1: Joining me right now is Gretchen Carlson, the co-founder of Lift Our Voices, a non-profit that works to end mechanisms that prevent survivors of sexual assault and harassment from being able to speak out publicly, has been a very important voice in this conversation through and through. Thanks for being here. Good to see you. So you see this, Kathy Rumler announcing this resignation. This is really the first real fallout, I think we could say, or consequence that has happened in the United States from the release of the Jeffrey Epstein files. What do you make of that?

[00:07:30] Speaker 4: What it says to me is that this is all about power, right, and that it doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman or a Republican or a Democrat or an Independent. Power usurps all of that, and especially when you're involved in this level of power. I don't think we should be surprised to see women who are on the Democratic side or otherwise being the people that are going to fall down from this. Now, whether or not she did anything illegal is not what the question here is. The question is that she continued an association with a known child sex trafficker, and she received gifts in return. And so this is very questionable that somebody should be as high up as she is at Goldman Sachs. It's a huge question of judgment.

[00:08:15] Speaker 1: That same question goes to so many more people now, right, that are coming out in these files. You've, this is the first and only so far person to face consequences, and not one of the people, though, that is listed in FBI document as a co-conspirator of Epstein's, right? This is that whole thing that Tom Massey and Ro Khanna, they went in, they read through the files, they said they found six names that were redacted that were listed by the FBI as co-conspirators. They went to the floor, they read the names, then they're unredacted. Overseas, and nothing from them. Overseas, you have a prince, an ambassador, senior diplomats, top politicians, all brought down by the Epstein files. All in Europe, not in the United States. I don't know what to do with this.

[00:08:56] Speaker 4: Well, I think it's completely contingent on this administration. I mean, they have been the ones that have called it a hoax. They have been the ones that have not, you know, had any sort of admiration for the survivors and the kind of bravery that it's taken for them to come forward. And you had Pam Bondi giving one of the most despicable performances two days ago in front of that House committee and not even acknowledging the survivors that were standing behind her. That photo is going to go down in infamy with her back to them. So I think if we had a different administration that really wanted to get to the bottom of this, and I should also mention that they never got to the bottom of it in the Biden administration, the Bush administration, the Obama administration, five administrations. But I think now, you know, we've seen such a change in tenor because the survivors are being believed. This movement continues. It's different than those other administrations. And for the last year, there's been nothing but an apparent cover up to not get to the bottom. Let's not forget also that Ghislaine Maxwell said in a court document in January that she knew of 25 co-conspirators. And then she came before the House committee and pled the fifth this week and said, I'm not going to tell you who any of them are unless you give me clemency. So the president of the United States today should say that he's not giving her clemency and that he is not going to pardon her so that she can no longer use that chip.