NZ Targets Feral Cats by 2050 as “Nine Lives” Evades Traps (Full Transcript)

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: So I'm not only an AI skeptic, but I'm also a cat skeptic to put it very mildly. You were just in New Zealand looking at a growing problem there around feral cats.

[00:00:11] Speaker 2: Yes, so your cat, we'll discuss you being a cat skeptic in the context of this story. We went to New Zealand for a story. There are a lot of cats, a lot of cats in New Zealand and specifically feral cats and they're trying to eradicate them because they're really damaging the native bird life. And so we thought we'd have a look as to why. Feral cats may look like their domesticated cousins, but New Zealand's government says they're ruthless predators. For that reason, New Zealand is aiming to wipe out all feral cats by 2050 in a massive eradication program. That means killing between an estimated 2.5 and 8 million of the animals, according to New Zealand Department of Conservation figures. So we're here in Northland in New Zealand. We're going to meet Mike. He has been doing a lot of work here trying to trap these cats, find out a little bit more about what he does. Hello.

[00:01:11] Speaker 3: Morning.

[00:01:12] Speaker 2: You must be Mike.

[00:01:13] Speaker 3: I'm Mike.

[00:01:14] Speaker 2: Hi. Yes. Nice to meet you.

[00:01:16] Speaker 3: Within the last 12 years, I've probably taken 500 cats off this place, off the peninsula itself. So we're down to three or four real stubborn cats that we can't get.

[00:01:27] Speaker 2: How do you normally get the cats?

[00:01:29] Speaker 3: Normally humane trapping, live capture traps and some kill traps. And then we work at night trying to find them.

[00:01:37] Speaker 2: New Zealand recognises three types of cat. A domestic cat, stray cat and a feral cat. The government says only the feral cats will be targeted. The ones that live in remote areas and find food for themselves to survive. They're the animals putting some of the country's 200-plus native bird breeds at risk of extinction. But there's one cat in particular these trappers are after. And so far they've only caught him on surveillance cameras.

[00:02:05] Speaker 3: We've went over here to name nine lives because he's been in our scope a few times and we haven't been able to get the deal done.

[00:02:12] Speaker 2: If someone asked you to describe nine lives what would you say?

[00:02:15] Speaker 3: It would be the most elusive cat I've ever come across. Once they got that blood over the duck he just kept going. The cats will just keep killing just for the sake of killing.

[00:02:25] Speaker 2: The cat is named nine lives because it's evaded capture and death so often and is infamous in these parts.

[00:02:32] Speaker 3: We've had him in the scope I don't know how many times and we've got him on camera sitting at the base of traps, on traps and he's winning at the moment. So he's nine lives.

[00:02:41] Speaker 2: How many hours have you spent trying to catch him?

[00:02:43] Speaker 3: So we're up to two and a half years. Two years now probably at least 60 hours a month.

[00:02:49] Speaker 2: So far nine lives has avoided being caught and shot. Mike wants to change the cat's luck for good. What are we looking at here?

[00:02:55] Speaker 3: So we're looking for footprints in the sand to see what's been around.

[00:02:59] Speaker 2: What sort of footprints are we looking for?

[00:03:01] Speaker 3: Birds, cats and these fresh ones. That looks like a cat one here.

[00:03:06] Speaker 2: It's a cat?

[00:03:07] Speaker 3: Cat going up there. Like I put a trap up there and he's been busy down here.

[00:03:12] Speaker 2: And hunting down nine lives is particularly important.

[00:03:15] Speaker 3: We've got a kiwi here.

[00:03:16] Speaker 2: The country's largest colony of kiwis, New Zealand's native bird, is located here and is starting to flourish.

[00:03:23] Speaker 3: Roughly three and a half thousand kiwi which is the highest population in New Zealand. With the cat trapping, yes certainly making a difference out here. All right kiwi time.

[00:03:36] Speaker 4: It's strange at night because you get to a certain time and then all of a sudden the kiwi just seems to pop out.

[00:03:41] Speaker 2: We're looking for a kiwi and that's making a noise. That is, is that a kiwi sound?

[00:03:46] Speaker 3: It's a kiwi, it's a male kiwi. The males are a louder one.

[00:03:50] Speaker 4: If you look over here, if you look to those and you see the rocks over here, the stones, you'll see them sticking out.

[00:03:59] Speaker 2: Oh there it is, oh my god it's a kiwi. Feral cats aren't just a problem for native wildlife. They're spreading a disease called toxoplasmosis to livestock and even marine mammals like dolphins. Conservation Minister Tama Potaka has championed the cat killing campaign. He's having to trade carefully because a separate political campaign a decade ago led to fierce resistance from animal rights activists.

[00:04:31] Speaker 5: I decided last year in November 2025 we need to put feral cats on the list because they are stone gold killers and they're going out and wiping out a lot of our birds. We lose around 25 million native birds a year through the actions of predators including feral cats. Most kiwis recognise that we have some serious responsibilities when it comes to the environment and we see ourselves as kaitiaki or guardians of the environment. So we're pretty focused and professional and credible in the way we deal with these feral cat populations. Otherwise we might stray into, or stray that might not be the best word, we might get into a space where actually we're hurting the companion cats or the stray cats.

[00:05:13] Speaker 2: New Zealand's leading animal protection network, the SPCA, says it accepts that actions need to be taken to protect native species.

[00:05:21] Speaker 6: We accept that sometimes it's necessary to control populations to look after our really vulnerable native wildlife. However, it must be humane, it must be effective and it must be monitored to actually check that it's actually working. Does SPCA consider trapping humane or not? There's lots of different types of traps. There are lethal traps, live capture traps and leghold traps. We oppose leghold traps because of the issues around welfare of having your leg caught. The kill traps, provided that they're working, they can be effective, but we prefer live traps. And the reason for that is just in case you've got someone's pet cat that happens to have gotten into a trap, you should be able to identify that.

[00:06:07] Speaker 2: A detailed plan on how New Zealand will tackle feral cats is expected to be released next month. Meanwhile, Mike is continuing to hunt for nightlifes. And you saw your enemy last night?

[00:06:18] Speaker 3: The enemy was spotted on the camera last night, one o'clock this morning.

[00:06:21] Speaker 2: You're going to try and find him tonight?

[00:06:22] Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll try and find him tonight, for sure. You know, these last few cats, they are just so on top of the game.

[00:06:29] Speaker 2: Do you reckon you'll get them all?

[00:06:31] Speaker 3: Yep, it takes a lot of time, a lot of time to get them.

[00:06:38] Speaker 7: So I think I speak for all of us when I say the one burning question from that, has Mike caught nightlife yet or is he still on the loose?

[00:06:46] Speaker 2: He's still on the loose. Nine Lives is still at large. Mike has not updated me. He said that I would know as soon as he found him. I reckon probably most of New Zealand will know.

[00:06:55] Speaker 8: I really love this piece. Like, I love everything about it. But my favourite thing about it is the mugshot of Nine Lives. I'm calling it a mugshot because I feel like he knows exactly what he's doing. Like, he is messing with Mike.

[00:07:06] Speaker 7: He's looking straight down the lens.

[00:07:10] Speaker 8: That's so good.

[00:07:11] Speaker 2: It's really interesting, too, because this story about New Zealand wanting to eradicate feral cats kind of really broke into global media in November last year when it was announced. And it's just a broader conservation story, right? Like, people around the world are also dealing with feral cat issues. It's a problem in the US, in Canada, in Australia, which is just next door. And everyone's sort of trying to work out how to manage this problem, which is very emotional because people have pet cats.

[00:07:38] Speaker 7: And the one thing that stood out to me, actually, listening to Anya at the cat rescue place, talking about the different kinds of traps, I mean, worst case scenario, I guess, accidentally catches a stray cat instead of a feral cat, or even worse, a domesticated house cat, somebody's pet. Is there any way they can mitigate that happening?

[00:07:58] Speaker 2: Well, yeah, there are examples of pet cats having been caught in traps and mistakenly killed, which obviously is not good for anyone involved. It's not good for the, like, mission of trying to eradicate feral cats. It's not good for people's pets. It's not good for the cat. So there are, like, there are issues with that. But what is meant to happen is you're meant to scan for microchip. And then it comes down to responsible pet ownership. Because if you have a cat, you should make sure it's microchipped. And if it gets in a trap, then it's going to be okay.

[00:08:24] Speaker 8: I was also blown away by the two and a half to eight million feral cats roaming around. That is a lot of cats.

[00:08:32] Speaker 2: It's a lot of feral cats. Like, you would not see a feral cat. Like, part of being feral and being classified as feral is that, like, often humans will never see them. So if that's the estimated number, it's just enormous.

[00:08:43] Speaker 1: I mean, now it makes sense why Nine Lives is in hiding. She's on the lam. I actually found the conservation aspect of it really interesting. Because as you said, you see it in other countries as well. But not just with cats. You see it with, you know, feral hogs, wild boars. They have that issue in the U.S. as well, where they're trying to eradicate the overpopulation and the impact that it's having on the ecosystem.

[00:09:04] Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, there are plenty of animals. I think the thing that makes this different and what causes, like... makes it slightly controversial with some people is that people don't often have pet boars. So there's, like, the pet element of...

[00:09:15] Speaker 7: And they look just like the cats, too. Yeah, exactly.

[00:09:17] Speaker 2: And people are looking at it and saying, like, oh, that's my pet cat. Like, can it be rehabilitated? And the SPCA in New Zealand says feral cats can't really be, like... Like, I don't know what the right word would be. Like, domesticated. Like, maybe kittens, but not the feral ones.