Philadelphia Question Time: Character, Border, Wars, Costs (Full Transcript)

[00:00:02] Speaker 1: Question time has come to America, to the city of Philadelphia in the state of Pennsylvania. It's a city rich in political history. Behind me is Independence Hall, where the Declaration of Independence from Great Britain was signed. Now, 250 years later, next month, America will elect its 47th president, Kamala Harris or Donald Trump. Most of the 50 US states almost always vote for the same party. The winner comes down to who gets the most votes in the half dozen or so states where the result is close, the so-called battleground states. And none is closer or bigger than here in Pennsylvania. Whoever wins here is very likely to become the next president. So here we are at Philadelphia's National Constitution Center with those voters who will help decide the outcome of that election on November the 5th. The world waits to see what will unfold. Our audience here is a mix of Harris supporters, Trump supporters, and some who are undecided. Welcome to Question Time. On tonight's panel, Malcolm Kenyatta is from the party of Kamala Harris, the Democrats. He's a member of Pennsylvania's House of Representatives and an advisor to the Harris 2024 election campaign. A rising star in the Republican Party is Martina White, who's also in the state's House of Representatives. She remains the only state-level Republican in Philadelphia. Mehdi Hassan is a British-American political commentator and has worked on both sides of the pond at the New Statesman, Al Jazeera, and then MSNBC. He's now founder of his own media organization, Zeteo News. Brian Lanza is a senior advisor to Donald Trump and was a key part of the communication scene that got Mr. Trump elected as president back in 2016. And the BBC's North America correspondent, Anthony Zirk, is here to help us capture the noise and the spin of this highly-charged election. Good evening. Welcome to our panelists. Welcome to our audience here in Philadelphia. Great to see you. And of course, welcome to our audience at home, both in the UK and those who are watching us in the US as well. Good to see you all. And now, it is a golden rule of question time that the people on the panel do not know the questions and it's no different here tonight. So, let's get our first question now, which is from Robert Arnold.

[00:02:40] Speaker 2: In addition to policies, how much consideration should voters give to the candidate's character?

[00:02:49] Speaker 1: To the candidate's character. Right. Well, Brian, I'm going to come to you first. Because as an advisor to Trump, you probably know one of the candidates arguably better than anyone else here. How important is character? How important is character?

[00:03:00] Speaker 3: I think character matters. You know, character matters when you look at voters and you make a commitment to them under your presidency to hit certain benchmarks. And you follow through on that. So, I think character matters a lot. Listen, I was a Democrat during the Clinton-era presidency, where the media and where the Democrats told us that character doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the economy. And now, you know, I've moved over to the Republican Island. I've traveled and I've worked abroad. And what you learn is that the American president's word with respect to foreign policy, with respect to some of these policies, matter. Now, in politics, obviously, the rhetoric gets hot. You know, people have a tendency of sort of stretching the truth and exaggerating. But I think at the end of the day... I can't.

[00:03:43] Speaker 4: Who do you mean?

[00:03:45] Speaker 3: Look at Barack Obama. You know, he said, you won't lose your health care. People did lose their doctors. Look at George W. Bush. He said, there's weapons of mass destruction. And would you include...

[00:03:54] Speaker 1: I see you're an advisor to Donald Trump. Would you include him in that?

[00:03:56] Speaker 3: Listen, I think the president comes from the entertainment space, so he's used to exaggerating the truth. He's used to those things. And I think that's a process that, you know, people have sort of baked into who he is now. It's not a perfect process. Well, I guess we'll find out. Yeah. We'll certainly know in 27 days. But it's not a perfect process. But I think when you look at, you know, when a president runs, he makes these commitments, and you should hold him accountable to following through on these commitments. And President Trump, you know, he made his seven commitments when he ran for president. And I think if you look at the checkmark, he hit all those by the end of his first four-year term.

[00:04:29] Speaker 1: Well, he committed to build a wall and didn't build. He started to, and he wants to continue.

[00:04:33] Speaker 3: And now we have Kamala Harris, who's sort of me too-ing, saying, yes, we do need a wall. So he's led the charge, and we're glad that the Democrats have finally decided to join him.

[00:04:41] Speaker 1: Mehdi?

[00:04:42] Speaker 5: It's funny that Brian mentioned the character and Clinton issue, because you're right. That was a time when Democrats said, character's not important. And Republicans said, character matters. Funnily enough, when you poll Republicans today, they say character doesn't matter. And there's a reason for that, because they've checked out their candidate. And they know they can't say with a straight face that character matters when their candidate is Donald J. Trump, a man, perhaps the most, I don't want to say immoral, amoral man to reach the presidency in modern American history. We've all seen him in action. This is a man who is a kind of thin-skinned narcissist, self-obsessed with petty vendettas and personal grievances, a wannabe autocrat. He's a hero in character terms to a lot of white Christian evangelicals in this country. Bizarrely, this is a former casino owner who cheated on his first wife with his second wife, cheated on his third wife with a porn star, been found liable of sexual abuse by a jury of his peers, lies in every breath, more than 30,000 lies, according to a count by The Washington Post, a conservative count, when he was president, has spent years saying outrageously racist and misogynistic things about women and people of color, hosted a holocaust tonight at his home for Thanksgiving. So no, I don't think he has the character. I think character matters. He certainly does not have the character to be president. He doesn't have the moral fitness. He doesn't have the mental fitness. OK. And one last line, one last line. Don't take my word for it. His own defense secretary, Mark Esper, says he's not fit for office. In fact, the vast majority of the people who served in his cabinet say they're not voting for him this time. Don't take it from me.

[00:06:15] Speaker 1: What about the character of Kamala Harris? Because there's two people we're talking about here.

[00:06:18] Speaker 5: Well, the problem is when you say there's two people we're talking about, one of them is Donald Trump, so it really doesn't matter who's on the other side when it comes to character. We could pick someone randomly walking on the street in Philly and they would have a better character than Donald J. Trump.

[00:06:30] Speaker 6: Well, let's hear it from our audience. I know there will be people who don't agree with you. Yes, the woman in the black glasses at the back.

[00:06:36] Speaker 7: Well, first off, sir, I think some of the things you just said need to be fact-checked. So I think you are...

[00:06:42] Speaker 5: Liable for sexual abuse.

[00:06:44] Speaker 7: You are really off-center and inappropriate. I will say, first off, Trump is not a politician. But what you can say about that man is he cares about this country. He has taken... No, we'll hear her speak. We can tell where the Democrats are on the side of this auditorium. So he cares about America. If he didn't care about America, he wouldn't get back up on that stage and put his life on the line, his family's character. He's being attacked every single day. He was in office for four years, and can you imagine that presidency? He was attacked every single day from all different sides, many of that from the cabinet members who are now dissing him. They were there for a reason. This is the infuriating part of this election. It is becoming all about the argument about character, and the left has made it about Trump's character. This isn't about Trump. This is about a man who's standing up to try to save this country. And he's had the balls, sorry, I'm not sure if I can say that, to stand up... You've already said it. Sorry. See, Brian, Republicans don't care about character.

[00:07:56] Speaker 8: Sorry, if you finish your point, did you want to...

[00:08:03] Speaker 7: I just think if we as America want to save this country, we better support a man, yes, he's not the best speaker, he's infuriating, yes, he's narcissistic, but man, he cares about America and about saving the Constitution and saving this country. Thank you.

[00:08:20] Speaker 9: So it's interesting, your last point. A narcissist, by definition, does not care about anyone else. And he makes it clear every single day that he does not care. I have never in my life imagined that I would see someone who has benefited more from the promise of this nation than Donald Trump, a billionaire with a private plane who gets to fly around the country, who gets to be treated with a completely different standard than any other person in the political arena, who whines and cries as much as Donald Trump does. I think we are in a position where we have to be honest with ourselves. This is not Democrats saying this. This is not just independents saying this. It is Republicans as well who are supporting Kamala Harris, including a number of the best people who he hired, who have seen when no cameras are around, who have been with him, who do not trust him. John Bolton, who is like not like a pinnacle of progressive ideology, who also has made it clear that this is somebody who should not be in the situation room when we are dealing with the crises that we're facing around the country. And I think in your heart of hearts, many of you who are supporting his campaign, maybe you really are just completely grading him at a different level. But many of you, I think, just with some of the comments that I heard from you, you know that he does not pass the character test, but you are grading him on a curve for other reasons. That is your right. But I think in 27 days, we need to defeat him and make sure he's never president again.

[00:10:02] Speaker 1: This man here in the blue shirt at the front, yes, the man in the blue shirt at the front.

[00:10:08] Speaker 10: Well, first of all, I'd like to say he never had a shot when he first got in office. And everybody knows he came with this Russian stuff. So he was already doomed. What are you saying? The president Trump, before he got in office, he was already doomed before he got in office. And when we talk about character, what I noticed growing up, I used to watch TV and it was so bipartisan. You had a moderator, you had a guy on the left and a guy on the right, and they were opposed to each other. The moderator stayed bipartisan. You don't have that now. You have people just on the train, picking a side, and that's it. They never look at the other side, like the gentleman here. I'm a fair person, so I can see there's faults in both sides. I'm not just going to pick one and say I don't like him. But one thing people got to understand that Donald Trump has made most of these people their talking points. What would they talk about if it wasn't Donald Trump? How are they going to help the country? All they say is what Donald Trump did or what he didn't do. None of them are standing up and doing anything as a group together. When we elect Democrats and Republicans in office, they go there to work together. And they work for the people, and they're supposed to, no matter whether you're Democrat or Republican, they're supposed to work for all of us.

[00:11:30] Speaker 1: Well, let's listen. There are two candidates we're talking about here, obviously talking about Donald Trump, but also Kamala Harris. Martina.

[00:11:36] Speaker 11: Thank you, Fiona. So to this question, does character matter? Absolutely. And to the extent that it impacts policy, I think it matters that much more. When we talk about character, when it comes to political figures, can you trust them to do what they say they're going to do? Donald Trump, he did what he said he was going to do. He was not a wartime president, he was a peacetime president. He helped to build the border wall. He actually cares about the American people enough to show the respect that our veterans deserve.

[00:12:15] Speaker 12: When he calls them suckers and losers, Martina? When he calls them suckers and losers, that's showing respect?

[00:12:19] Speaker 11: I did not speak during when you spoke, but I know for a fact that when Joe Biden checks his watch instead of making sure that our fallen are respected when they return, I think that's important. And I also think that you don't, the way that they pulled out of Afghanistan does not show respect to our veterans. And separate of, separate of that, I just want to say it is important that politicians do stand up and have character, especially when they're running for re-election or for a higher position.

[00:12:54] Speaker 1: And does it bother you that he is a convicted criminal?

[00:12:58] Speaker 5: No, it doesn't.

[00:13:00] Speaker 1: Excuse me.

[00:13:01] Speaker 11: I think that what we are faced with right now is a decision between who has literally lied to us for years about what the health and welfare of our current sitting president has been. Sorry, but can I, I just wondered what your answer to that is.

[00:13:17] Speaker 1: Kamala Harris has. Does it bother you that he's a convicted criminal or do you not set much store by it?

[00:13:21] Speaker 11: There are a lot of convicted criminals who have been brought back into society and can do great things for not only their local communities, but our country too. And nothing for nothing, I think a lot of what has happened to Donald Trump, if anything, has been an attack utilizing our justice system in a way that has been unprecedented in our country.

[00:13:44] Speaker 1: Let me get a bit more familiar with the woman then at the end of the room.

[00:13:48] Speaker 13: There's a difference, in my opinion, between respect and character and not liking someone's character versus coming after someone and not having care or respect for someone based off of how they were born. And I think the fact that Donald Trump coming after Kamala Harris specifically for her race is just not even a character flaw, but just an outright racist flaw.

[00:14:08] Speaker 11: I guess he must have missed the debate though when he said he doesn't care what race Kamala Harris is. He just wants to know that our country is going to be placed under his hands.

[00:14:16] Speaker 1: What I'd like to hear from, I know we've got people here who are undecided. I don't know whereabouts you are in this audience. But let's, okay, I'd like to hear from one or two of you about what you think about this issue of character. You undecided, so with your hand up there. Yes. So because obviously this has all been about Trump so far. The fact that you're undecided, I assume means that when it comes to the character of these two, you're not quite sure.

[00:14:38] Speaker 14: Yes. So that's correct. But I'm seeing a lot of the argument and a lot of the discourse in this space coming after Trump's character and a lot of the discourse on, you know, Vice President Harris's character being these online remarks that were mentioned about Vice President Harris's race. And I'm also wondering about January 6th, about, you know, does Donald Trump admit that he lost the 2020 election? And I think finally getting somebody on the Republican side to admit that would perhaps sway my vote. Okay.

[00:15:11] Speaker 1: Anthony, I mean, character is an issue in this election in a way that, I mean, it's always an issue in every election, but it's particularly loud in this one.

[00:15:21] Speaker 15: Yeah, absolutely. And I think what many said about Donald Trump's character is true. I mean, the facts he cited are true, but it's also, I think, beside the point for a lot of Donald Trump supporters. I mean, they support him because he's disruptive. He's someone who's coming in to challenge the system and try to turn it on its head. And he was that way in 2015 and 2016, and he's still that way. And so when you talk to them, he is a vessel, in a sense, for fighting for them. I mean, when Donald Trump gets up there and says, they're not after me, they're after you, I'm just in the way, that's something that really resonates with them. And they look back to what happened with the Great Recession in 2009 and what happened with the economic disruptions of COVID. And they feel like the system, the establishment, everything that has been going on in this country is broken. And the only way to blow it up is to pick someone who's out there and maybe has morals that people call into question and maybe says things that are controversial and maybe did not have the best exit from his first term in office. But they're willing to try to blow it up because they are that desperate.

[00:16:29] Speaker 4: And when it comes to Kamala Harris?

[00:16:33] Speaker 15: Kamala Harris, I think what we've heard, and actually the point that Brian made about he does what he says, and Martina as well, what you do is you look at how Kamala Harris ran her campaign in 2019 and the position she took in 2019, which were much farther to the left than she is now. And honestly, most of the candidates who were running for that Democratic presidential nomination in 2020 got pulled to the left by Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. But Kamala Harris did take positions on things like disbanding Immigration and Customs Enforcement, nationalizing health insurance, banning fracking, that are ones that he or she has since renounced. So I think that calls into some questions about what she stands for. I don't think she renounced them.

[00:17:18] Speaker 3: She just said, you know, those are Joe Biden's positions. They're my positions, too. I mean, it's pretty clear that she's lying. If we care about lying, she's lying about her positions to win this election.

[00:17:30] Speaker 9: But is that your point? Do you care about lying? But does lying matter? That's my question. Listen, and politicians lie all the time. So does it matter? So don't bring up Kamala Harris supposed lies if lies don't matter. I'm not sensitive. I just want you guys to treat Donald Trump like he is a toddler who cannot be held. Donald Trump wants to be president of the United States. Donald Trump is not a victim. Donald Trump is a person who incited a riot against our United States Capitol in a disqualifying period. Disqualifying period.

[00:18:04] Speaker 1: Let me hear a bit more from our audience. That's why they're here. Yes, the woman in the white jacket.

[00:18:08] Speaker 16: So I think for you to bring up character with any politician. So there's a couple of points I need to make. Anybody running for the presidency, I don't care if they're a man or a woman, an incumbent or not, they're a narcissist. Nobody wants to be president of the United States who is not a narcissist on some level. It's about power. If you want to talk about character, you have to go back to the Clinton administration, who totally brought the indiscretions under the desk to the forefront of the American people. And it's gone downhill almost since then consistently. With one exception, I will always give him credit for this, even though I didn't vote for him, was Obama, who I think had good character in the White House and didn't cause us. He didn't embarrass the people when it came to family and stuff like that. But the Clintons started that. And it was happening before that, I'm sure, but it just wasn't in the forefront and they didn't speak about it.

[00:19:08] Speaker 1: So are you saying that effectively, whoever runs for president, they're not necessarily going to be of great character? They may not be, but they need to have respect.

[00:19:18] Speaker 16: People need to respect them. World leaders need to respect the United States leader. If the United States is a superpower, they need to have earned the respect, and sometimes that's through fear of other world leaders. Respect when the president is higher, I think, than character. And just to be clear, is that what you think Trump will have?

[00:19:40] Speaker 1: I do.

[00:19:41] Speaker 16: I think he definitely commands respect. And you know what? And they lie. They lie about their own records. They lie about their own indiscretions. And they lie constantly about each other. And if there was a law or a rule that said politicians can't post ads that lie about each other and misinterpret things, we would all like it better, because we're so sick of it.

[00:20:02] Speaker 1: OK. All right. I hear you. All right. We could talk for an hour about this, but we're not going to, because there are other issues you want to discuss, and I'm going to get to them. Before I do, I just want to say, I feel slightly odd to be saying this here in the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia, but next week we're going to be in Rotherham.

[00:20:18] Speaker 8: None of you have any idea where that is, but anyway, we're going to be in Rotherham in South Yorkshire. And the week after that, I don't know why you're laughing, but the week after that we'll be in the southwest in Plymouth.

[00:20:30] Speaker 1: So if you are from or around Rotherham or ditto with Plymouth and you'd like to be part of our question time, do apply to the website, the instructions here, and we would love to see you. And of course, normal service will be resumed. Right. Let's go to our second question, which is from Rich Dysinger. I hope I pronounced your name correctly. Yes.

[00:20:48] Speaker 17: So the immigration system is broken. I wanted to know what we're going to do to fix border security and those types of issues. I know it's a very complex issue. So just wondering how we can fix that.

[00:20:59] Speaker 1: So you're saying the U.S. immigration system is broken, which is a very strong way to put it. Malcolm.

[00:21:05] Speaker 9: So I would say a couple of things. The first thing I would say is that we are, we're sitting in the Constitution Center and it should be, as we have this conversation, it should be, we should remind ourselves always that we are a nation of immigrants, but we're also, as has been said, a nation of laws. And so do we need, do we deserve an orderly immigration system? Absolutely. The bipartisan immigration bill that was on the table had things in it that I liked, things in it that I didn't like.

[00:21:35] Speaker 1: Can I just explain what that is for those who may not be familiar? So the bipartisan agreement was basically an agreement that was, that was supported by both Republicans and Democrats in the House, not all Republicans, but it had Republican support. And, and it was basically strengthening border controls, which went down some well with some parts of the House and allowing immigrants in, which went not so well down. But basically it was something that had a consensus across Congress, but in fact it didn't, it didn't pass.

[00:22:04] Speaker 9: And that was important. I've heard it said here a number of times that people should come in and they should work together. This is an example of Congress actually coming in and working together. And the disruptor in chief came in and said to members of his party, don't support this bill. These are his words. Don't support this bill because it will hurt me in the election. He literally said, blame me for this bill not becoming law. I do blame him. And this was a bill, by the way, that we should highlight was supported by border enforcement, which is not a bastion of liberal politics. They supported this bill because it was a consensus product that would do a number of things. It would have increased border agents to deal with folks who are coming here. Some to seek asylum like they have a, a right to, um, some who want it to enter illegally. It would also have increased the amount of judges to ferret through whether or not someone is eligible for asylum or whether or not they should be returned to their country of origin. Can I just say one more thing?

[00:23:10] Speaker 1: Before we go through every sort of cough and spit of the bypass that bill, I just wanted to ask you, that's quite clear. I just want to ask you, given that immigration has been immigration of, of undocumented or illegal migrants has been so much higher on average under the Biden administration, about 2 million a year compared to the Trump administration, which is about 300, 400,000 a year. Are you blaming that all on a bill that was supposed to pass this year? Or what about the previous three years?

[00:23:35] Speaker 9: So first of all, first of all, first of all, two things are important here, two things are important here. First of all, I would quibble with, with some of those numbers. Um, what? Well, I would. Okay. I mean, they come from Pew research, which is generally felt to be a, that's okay. Um, the, when you support Donald Trump, please don't talk to me about facts. Let's deal with the question. Let's deal with the question. Do you think that... Here's the point, here's the point. I think in the, in the last couple of months, we have seen border crossings actually come down. That is what has happened in the last, in the last few months, they have come down. Those are the facts. That is just true. They have, they have come down. But, but the point is to get to a, to get to a place where we have the orderly border security that we deserve, it is going to take an act of Congress and Congress had a bill on the table that is not law because of one man named Donald Trump. He said to blame him. And I do.

[00:24:30] Speaker 11: Yes. So when it comes to, uh, illegal immigration, which has been a major disaster under the Biden Harris administration where yes, millions of illegal immigrants have arrived at our front steps and in our communities, and some of which do not have our best interests at heart. We saw that today when a illegal immigrant who I think was from Russia had in Philadelphia was captured with 50 tons of explosives. Okay. Not to mention there was another illegal immigrant who had come through the border who, um, I guess they wanted to do an election day terrorist attack that was captured. And I hate to use these examples, but this is our literal reality that communities across this country are living with. There are families who have had their own either child or relative who have, um, passed away or died because of an act of an illegal act of a immigrant. And that is not to say that all immigrants are, uh, you know, does causing harm. However, we need to make sure that we have a lawful process that is consistent for everyone to understand.

[00:25:44] Speaker 1: Let's talk about that.

[00:25:45] Speaker 15: So Donald Trump, hang on, hang on, it wasn't an illegal immigrant that is threatening to attack on election day. It was an Afghan national who was brought over here after the fall of Afghanistan. Thank you.

[00:26:00] Speaker 6: Thank you. Let's hang on. Let's just talk about, so let's talk about doing this legally, Martina.

[00:26:05] Speaker 1: So Donald Trump, uh, not a, you are Republican says he wants to seal the border. So let nobody in. Is that something you support?

[00:26:14] Speaker 11: So I believe that when the president says that this is part of his agenda on his website to secure the border, to ensure the safety of Americans and our sovereignty as a nation, it's not to seal the border. Yes.

[00:26:30] Speaker 6: Yes. Literally. What do you mean?

[00:26:31] Speaker 11: And do you literally, that doesn't mean that means to secure our literal borders seal the border means let nobody in. No, no, no. That's being misinterpreted.

[00:26:43] Speaker 6: I don't want to sound folksy, but when you seal a jam jar, it's to stop air getting in. You seal it from anything else.

[00:26:57] Speaker 8: So if you're sealing the border, how does that mean secure the border?

[00:27:04] Speaker 11: So he's using the wrong word. I, I, I think that he uses it properly for the public to understand that he means to literally secure. Okay. Apparently this panel has some issues with understanding what secure the border means, but it means not to have an open border where anyone and everyone can just come in from illegal aliens.

[00:27:22] Speaker 3: Coming in. Like that's not a difficult concept. It's not what it says, but I'm just saying, but the conversation that Trump era has, he's not saying we have a problem with legal immigrants. We're saying we have a problem with illegal immigrants breaking our laws. So when we're talking, hold on, let me, when we're talking about sealing the border, we're talking about sealing the border for illegal immigrants. I think you might be the first media person to interpret it differently, which is why we're a little bit caught off guard. That's 100% true. It's 100% true.

[00:27:46] Speaker 5: Ending the right to asylum, which is a legal right under American law and international law. You're wrong. You're wrong, actually. Claiming asylum is not illegal.

[00:27:55] Speaker 3: It is at the discretion of the American president who has granted asylum. And Biden has... Not to end the right to asylum. It's his discretion. It absolutely is the president's discretion who comes in.

[00:28:04] Speaker 1: Let's hear what our audience have to say about it because there's plenty of hands up. The man in the blue shirt, yes, with the moustache. Yeah.

[00:28:11] Speaker 18: Yes, ma'am. My comment would be that everything was fine until Joe Biden came in and with the swipe of a pen, turned everything around, the pipeline as well, that he was running, OK? And as far as I'm concerned with this immigration, I think they have to import votes. OK. OK. All right.

[00:28:37] Speaker 1: Hang on. I'll come back to you in a minute. Just one second. Yes. I can't tell if you're laughing or crying there in the white shirt. A bit of both. OK. Do you want to say something? Or the woman next to you? Yes, go on.

[00:28:49] Speaker 19: I'm all for regulating the border. But my thing is, are they only talking about the border where Mexicans come in? Or are you talking about a border all the way around the United States? Because it looks like right now that they favor one part of the world that comes over, but they don't, they dislike others that come here, you know, from Mexico. So that's a question I have.

[00:29:13] Speaker 5: So three very quick things. Number one, Malcolm's right. If you talk to the border agency, Border Patrol, not a liberal group, they will tell you that the numbers right now are lower than when Donald Trump left office. That is a fact. That's why. Take it up with Border Patrol.

[00:29:26] Speaker 8: But on average, in fairness, on average, they have been a lot higher under Biden. Agreed.

[00:29:29] Speaker 5: But right now, right now, which I want to get to now, they are lower than when Donald Trump left office. Those are the facts. As conservatives like to say, facts don't care about your feelings. Number two, I would say that as the immigrant on the panel, let me quote, oh, I didn't. Lovely. As one of the two immigrants on the panel, let me quote Ronald Reagan, who used to be a beloved Republican until the Republican Party became the cult of Trump, who said, let's value our immigrant heritage. Let's take our fair share of responsibility for refugees, which America should take. We now have a Republican candidate who doesn't quote Ronald Reagan. He says immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country, which is literally a line from Mein Kampf. Right. That's what he says. He talks about immigrants eating pets. He incites fear and terror and bomb threats against American towns. And the gentleman asked a perfectly good question. The system is broken. But Donald Trump is not someone who can fix the system. He's already had one term. He separated children from the border.

[00:30:18] Speaker 1: But Joe Biden has had a term. And if you think the system is broken, you have to fix it.

[00:30:21] Speaker 5: I'm not here to defend Joe Biden's immigration record. I'm telling you that Donald Trump is not going to fix the system. He stole children from their parents at the border. What the American Academy of Pediatrics. Yes. Yes. They kidnapped children from their parents. OK. So hang on. Hang on. What you're talking about is a policy where children were separated. Yes. Family separation. It was called child abuse by the American Academy of Pediatrics. It was called torture by many people who looked into it. And now, by the way, his next solution is to deport 15 million people. He says he will do it in a bloody way. Not my words. His words. 15 million people, which is, A, not doable. And B, if it was doable, what do you think America looks like when the National Guard and the police and ICE are going house to house to look for 15 million people in this population? That is the America you want to live in.

[00:31:07] Speaker 11: But let's live in an America where there are child trafficking people across the border and there's drug epidemic all across our. Well, from what you're describing, an open border.

[00:31:15] Speaker 5: There was a bill to cut that down and your guy just shut it down so he could win an election.

[00:31:18] Speaker 11: So an open border is OK, then? Nobody's going for an open border. No, exactly.

[00:31:21] Speaker 5: Kamala Harris is a Democrat.

[00:31:24] Speaker 11: The woman in the glasses with the red top.

[00:31:25] Speaker 20: Nobody's going for an open border.

[00:31:26] Speaker 6: Not Kamala Harris. She's way to the right of me. Let's hear from you. Yes.

[00:31:31] Speaker 20: So we've heard from you. I don't know your name. I'll just. Excellent. We've heard from you about the problems at the border with Donald Trump. What would Kamala Harris do? Sign the border deal that was supported by.

[00:31:50] Speaker 5: Oh, yeah. I'm unlike Malcolm. I'm slightly to the left of Malcolm. So I don't like I didn't like that bill. I was glad it got shot down. I think Donald Trump did it cynically, but I think it was way too right wing for me. It gave the president way too much power, as Brian puts, to shut down things like a legal right to asylum. I would like to see the backlog at the border cleared up. I think we don't fund our judges and our court cases and our officers at the border. I would like to see there are so many immigrants who we just dismiss as illegal who are waiting to make their case and they don't get a court date. They don't get called back. They want to work. They want to contribute.

[00:32:24] Speaker 1: We don't let them. The man there in the T-shirt. Yeah.

[00:32:27] Speaker 21: As a young in high school, I will say in my community and across the United States, we see a different type of immigrants. And as an immigrant, I can say that. We see people who want to build a life and build communities because that's why you want to do whatever you live, have a good community and be part of a community. I will say they also bring some good things to people. And I also have to say, you know, we have we have some reports that illegal immigrants, as we call them, undocumented immigrants pay more taxes than actually billionaires. And so I will say deporting 15 million people, how will that impact the economic system in the country?

[00:33:02] Speaker 5: $300 billion cost for that. Yeah. OK. Brian.

[00:33:05] Speaker 3: I actually didn't understand that last question.

[00:33:07] Speaker 5: How much would it cost to deport 15 million people? How would it affect the economy?

[00:33:11] Speaker 3: I mean, listen, first of all, it's not going to happen all overnight. I mean, you're going to start with the criminals, right? We just recently found out that the Customs and Border Patrol said that in the last four years, 13000 murders and rapists have come in. You're going to start with them. So that's going to be a big number. It's going to be a phase in approach. And there's no and I'm of the opinion. Listen, I come from a family of immigrants. My mom's Mexican. My dad's Bolivian. I'm sure at one point their status was questionable. And some people in my family, but where they all are today. And this is the first time they've ever been there. You know, my family, anyway, they're voting for Trump. You know, they're voting for Trump for one simple reason. They said we've lived under the economy, under Donald Trump. And we've lived under the Biden's Harris economy. And it's a no brainer for immigrant communities. They had more money back then. They, they, they, inflation didn't wipe out their savings. They were able to go and do something on the weekends and spend money and go get ice cream or go to dinners, which Latinos like to do on the weekends. And so as we have these conversations, you know, immigration is an important thing, but there has to be a legal process. And when Donald Trump came in, let's remember, you had record breaking before, before Harris, Biden, you had record breaking illegal immigration coming in across the border. One of the main things that Donald Trump ran on was securing the border because we felt that it was running rampant under Obama. And it was. Look at the numbers. You know, the numbers dramatically dropped. The rhetoric actually, as much as everybody complains about the rhetoric, the rhetoric is what actually kept most people away with respect to immigration. Because for the first time in a long time, these illegals didn't feel welcomed anymore. Whereas you, Kamala Harris, who was a sanctuary city district attorney in San Francisco. What does that mean? That means if you're an illegal alien in San Francisco and you commit a crime, you know, a federal crime, Kamala Harris wouldn't turn you over to the feds to serve time. They let you continue to walk the streets. So there is a difference in policy. You have somebody who's sanctuary cities who wants you to come in here, you know, be, be free of any government recourse for coming in here illegally. And you have the opposite. And that's the challenge that we have. And I think the American people don't want sanctuary country.

[00:35:10] Speaker 1: Andy, let's get your response to what you're hearing. And is it actually true that Kamala Harris would not prosecute people who would come to her city if they committed a crime, if they happened to be an immigrant?

[00:35:18] Speaker 15: Well, she believes in sanctuary cities, which means you will not prosecute people just for being undocumented in a city. Yeah, but if they committed a crime, stolen or murdered or something like that. She's in favor of prosecution, but not necessarily deportation of them. One of the things that Donald Trump has been very clear on is that he wants to deport everyone. But he wants to start with people who have broken the law and begin to fast track deportation. But the reality is that these mass deportations that Donald Trump talks about, they're not going to happen full stop. I mean, it's just impractical to be able to do it in the same way that Donald Trump promised to build a wall from coast to coast across the Mexican-U.S. border. And that was never going to happen. I mean, in a way, it's promising these big things that maybe he knows and most people know are not going to be achievable. But they convince Donald Trump supporters and people who care about immigration and feel like the system is broken that he really takes the problem seriously.

[00:36:15] Speaker 1: I mean, is it also, even if it's not literally true, is it not a strong indication of a direction of travel, if you like, and how seriously he's taking the issue?

[00:36:22] Speaker 15: I mean, that's the message that he's trying to transmit, right, that he's taking it seriously.

[00:36:26] Speaker 3: He'd like to build a wall, too, now. That's what her position is.

[00:36:30] Speaker 15: But not from coast to coast. I mean, no, I mean, that's just, you can't build a wall 2,000-something miles. But that was what Donald Trump was promising.

[00:36:36] Speaker 9: But he was also promising that Mexico was going to pay for it. And Mexico didn't pay for it.

[00:36:41] Speaker 15: Also impractical.

[00:36:42] Speaker 1: I've got two more questions I want to cover. And if I don't move on now, I'm not going to give them enough time. So forgive me, I'm going to move on to this next one. Now, Susan, I'm not entirely sure how to pronounce your surname. Is it Herseg? Herseg. Thank you. Let's hear your question.

[00:36:56] Speaker 22: If Donald Trump is elected, how will that affect the war in Ukraine, the conflict in the Middle East, and U.S. membership in NATO?

[00:37:08] Speaker 4: Mehdi.

[00:37:10] Speaker 5: That's a great question. I am not a fan of the current administration's approach to the Middle East. I've made that very clear. I think the Harris-Biden approach to Gaza has been a complete disaster. We have over 40,000 people dead, over 16,000 kids dead. An investigation for genocide at the International Court of Justice. Hostages still not fully released. Hamas not destroyed. A regional war brewing. I think it's been a disaster. And I think Biden allowing Netanyahu to escalate now into Lebanon and maybe Iran. Someone joked recently on Twitter that Biden seems to be October-surprising his own candidate. He's really undermining Kamala Harris. So I don't know what's going on there in the White House. So I'm not a fan of this administration's approach to the Middle East. I'm a ferocious critic. So what difference would you make? I have a lot of arguments online, and a lot of them come down to this, where a lot of people on the left are saying, well actually Trump's not that bad. Let's punish Harris by having Trump instead. I don't agree with that either. I actually think Trump would be worse on the Middle East. This is a man who uses Palestinian as a pejorative. Has talked recently, just a couple of days ago, about hitting Iran's nuclear facilities. Americans don't want a war with Iran. His son-in-law, Jared Kushner, told Netanyahu, finish the job in Gaza, which is pretty horrific.

[00:38:20] Speaker 1: Susan's question was also about Ukraine.

[00:38:21] Speaker 5: Yes, so on the Middle East I think he'll be marginally worse, although there's not much to pick between either candidate on the Middle East right now, sadly. I think both American political parties are messed up in the Middle East. On Ukraine, oh, he'll be horrifically much worse. He's made it very clear that he will allow Vladimir Putin to set the terms of any agreement in Ukraine. I think actually there should be a negotiated settlement in Ukraine. I don't think there can be a total victory on either side. But the guy who adores foreign dictators, including Vladimir Putin, is not the guy who's going to do those negotiations. We just learned a couple of days ago from Bob Woodward that he was secretly sending Putin COVID tests while we were short of stuff here in the United States. That's MAGA. And I don't think he should be allowed to be the person who does negotiations with Putin. I think that would be a huge, huge mistake. Martina.

[00:39:03] Speaker 11: Well, I'm no foreign affairs expert here. I'm a local state representative from Philadelphia. However, I do have a large Ukrainian population in my district, as well as Russian-speaking families. And I know that this is a very sensitive topic across the board when it comes to making sure that the American government continues to support Ukraine to the best of our ability.

[00:39:29] Speaker 1: And do you think Donald Trump wants to do that? I mean, he says, I could end the war in a day.

[00:39:33] Speaker 11: Well, he's a very good negotiator, obviously. I mean, he definitely was a peacetime president, whether we like that or not. He was.

[00:39:43] Speaker 23: What does that mean, peacetime president?

[00:39:44] Speaker 11: It means that there were no new conflicts involving the U.S. But he bombed a lot of countries. He took out a lot of people who were terrorists. He killed a lot of civilians. Hang on, hang on.

[00:39:57] Speaker 1: Susan's question is, if Donald Trump is elected, how would this affect the war in Ukraine and in the Middle East? And you're the membership of NATO. So Donald Trump has said, if I'd been president, these wars would not have happened. Do you agree with that?

[00:40:08] Speaker 11: There were no new wars under his administration involving the United States of America. And I think that that's a very important part of what we've seen in comparison today. There are wars breaking out left and right. And we need to make sure that America is strong around the world and respected and showing support for our allies abroad.

[00:40:36] Speaker 3: Brian. It's very hard, you know, for somebody to see what Joe Biden has done with Ukraine and say that he wants Ukraine to win. You know, the very first thing that the Ukrainians have asked for were weapons that allow them to strike into Russia. Right. They're like, you know, any way you can have any type of counterinsurgence, it actually requires air support to do that. And the United States never gave Ukraine the air support for a counterinsurgence. So the counterinsurgence failed. Right.

[00:41:01] Speaker 1: And who do you think Donald Trump wants to win? Because when he's been asked this question so far, he hasn't actually said.

[00:41:07] Speaker 3: I think he's right. There's going to be a political solution. So when there's a political solution, it's not going to be a one loss. Right. Because if you're following what Zelensky says. Right. And I follow it and you follow it probably because of your constituency. Zelensky is saying the only way we can have peace is if we get Crimea back. This is something that we lost.

[00:41:24] Speaker 1: You know, he's also saying if we get the Donbass back, which is a huge area. And Putin is saying it's not a chance. Sure.

[00:41:30] Speaker 3: But let's not take away from what Zelensky sees as victory. So what he sees as victory is he wants the Crimea region back, which he lost in 2014, which the world said, OK, whatever. Russia, you can have it. They passed marginal sanctions. There was really no dispute. They let him have it. And so Zelensky is saying in order for us to have victory here, in order for us to win this election or for us to win this war, we have to get Crimea back. There's no American policymaker that says we support Zelensky getting Crimea back. Not Biden, not Harris, not Trump. So let's be clear about what the facts are. So now we know this, that what Zelensky sees as victory, American policymakers completely disagree with that. And what military people tell you in order for Ukraine to get Crimea back, it actually is going to require American troops because there's shortage. So we have to ask the questions, what does winning look like in Ukraine? Well, I can tell you what winning does not look like, and that's American forces in the field of battle in Ukraine against Russia.

[00:42:25] Speaker 24: The man at the very back. I heard you say that Trump would support our allies. I actually disagree with that. Trump has been very, very clear that he is no fan of NATO. He's been very clear that he actually said that Russia, if you want to invade these countries, go ahead. If they're not paying their fair share, go ahead. That's not a president. That is basically a transactional leader, that all he thinks about is money and doesn't think about what the world sees the need of the United States being the protector of the alliance. As a matter of fact, Biden has actually increased our NATO membership by having two more countries join it. He has basically strengthened the Southeast Asian theater by having Australia, New Zealand, Australia. There's three countries here. I can't think of them right now. The bottom line is he is strengthening alliances. Those alliances basically help the United States not have to pay for everything. We have allies that basically add to our strength.

[00:43:41] Speaker 11: One point that you're describing here, Biden had made an investment in Iran. He gave them millions and millions and millions of dollars and 200 missiles flew right into Israel. So I must say that I do not agree with your perspective, unfortunately.

[00:44:00] Speaker 24: Let me hear from someone else. He said about NATO's fact that the most important alliance on this planet is NATO. You've made your point, so thank you.

[00:44:11] Speaker 6: We hear what you say, thank you.

[00:44:12] Speaker 1: Let's just hear from the man in the check shirt.

[00:44:14] Speaker 25: So my view on Ukraine and Russia is one that is probably very controversial. It is a battle of attrition that Ukraine cannot win to the terms that Zelensky wants. Therefore, by Trump saying that he will end it in a day, he's a numbers guy. He knows the numbers on both sides. And that's about the end of it.

[00:44:46] Speaker 1: And the concern that many European countries express, which is that if you allow Putin to make an incursion into Ukraine, other countries might follow. Of course, no one can know for sure, but that's the concern. Does that sway you at all?

[00:44:59] Speaker 25: So the whole reason that this started, in my opinion, is because they were pushing to get Ukraine into NATO. That was the line in the sand. Ukraine wanting to go into NATO and this being allowed to be furthered was viewed as a threat by Russia from NATO itself. Basically, NATO being on the offensive.

[00:45:27] Speaker 1: I mean, NATO, you might say they would say this, wouldn't you? But the NATO countries in Ukraine say that's not the case. But I hear what you say and that's your view. Mal.

[00:45:36] Speaker 9: So, you know, something that's happened over and over again tonight is that Donald Trump says something very clearly. And then people who support Donald Trump say that he meant something completely different than what he said. Donald Trump. Donald Trump has a we're talking. We were talking before about social media. I want to restrict Donald Trump pen pal love relationship. Late night calls with Vladimir Putin. Seven calls after he left the White House with boxes in boxes of America's most sensitive national security. Can I just say, wait a minute, wait a minute.

[00:46:18] Speaker 1: I'm not going to shout over you, but I'm just going to say that that that the white that Donald Trump has dinner. He has denied that those conversations took place. The Russia has not confirmed that Russia took place.

[00:46:30] Speaker 9: Russia today just confirmed. Excuse me. Russia today confirmed that Donald Trump send him covid test. I'm not disputing that. But they've not confirmed the point of the nation. OK.

[00:46:40] Speaker 1: So let's just talk about Kamala Harris for a minute. Because this is my point. Because I feel like tonight.

[00:46:48] Speaker 11: Let me finish my point.

[00:46:49] Speaker 9: Let me let me finish my point. Let me finish my point. The point is this. Donald Trump does not have the guts to say that he wants Ukraine to win. He went to Helsinki and embarrassed us on the national stage where he said he takes Vladimir Putin, a former KGB agent. He takes his word for it. He's had at least seven phone calls with him. He calls North Korea and Orban and all these other leaders that are in direct contrast to our values. Great, tough leaders that we should emulate. We should not emulate the thugs and the despots around the world that Donald Trump seems to idolize. We should not. And as it relates to Kamala Harris and as it relates to Kamala Harris, Kamala Harris, unlike Donald Trump. And this is not just Malcolm's opinion, but you can look at opinion polling of who was respected around the world. Donald Trump was laughed at literally by his colleagues. Literally laughed at by his colleagues. Kamala Harris has been somebody who's been gone around this entire world advocating for the positions of this administration whether you agree with them or not. With a level of respect and dignity. And one of the things that we have not talked about as it relates to foreign policy. The Kamala Harris that has done that I think is very important to the U.S. moving forward is her engagement with the continent of Africa. Where we know China is building out through the Belts and Roads Initiative and other things.

[00:48:17] Speaker 1: Really important partnerships that America should be a part of. Not addressing the point that Susan asked me, but thank you for that. I want to squeeze in this last question. So Ben Mora, whereabouts are you? Ah, we have people, right. Ben, off you go.

[00:48:31] Speaker 25: So I run a small trucking business in Pennsylvania. And prices have risen exponentially while the cost of doing business has gone up. The rates of freight have gone down. It turns into, we're not playing on equal playing field here. Is Donald Trump the only one who can improve the economy? That's the magic question.

[00:48:57] Speaker 1: Okay, so the economy, I mean we're coming to this last. But the economy, I mean poll after poll shows that the economy is the most important question. That is deciding how people are going to vote in this election. Martina.

[00:49:09] Speaker 11: So I can relate to you and your family and what you're going through. Because my family is from and involved in the trucking industry as well. And when, what we have seen is higher prices in food, in particular here in Pennsylvania, a 30% increase under the Biden-Harris administration. 40% increase in the cost of fuel, which means when you go to deliver goods to the grocery store, that's in part why they're going up. And we've also seen energy prices skyrocketing for families here all across Pennsylvania. And this is a major, major concern for working families across the board. And briefly, when we talk about immigration earlier, wages matter, right? Illegal immigration undermines American workers' wages. And that's what we hear from the Teamsters and other unions all across the Commonwealth that they're concerned about on their work sites. But I believe that the solution, briefly, in particular for here in Pennsylvania, is unleashing Pennsylvania's energy sector. We have natural gas underneath our feet. And it is also just a very big opportunity for us to be a nationwide leader and making sure that families aren't suffering anymore when it comes to our economy.

[00:50:31] Speaker 1: And it's worth pointing out for those certainly in the U.K. at home who may not be so aware, the fracking is obviously a big industry here in Pennsylvania.

[00:50:38] Speaker 11: 300,000 Pennsylvanians are employed in that industry in Pennsylvania.

[00:50:43] Speaker 1: Because I hear time and time again from people that prices are too high. Even if inflation is coming down, that doesn't mean the prices are coming down. It just means they're not rising quite as quickly, but they're still rising. But by many accounts, the economy is doing very well here in America.

[00:50:56] Speaker 15: Unemployment is low. The economy is still growing at a robust rate. Inflation is down. But you're right. Prices are higher than they were before.

[00:51:05] Speaker 1: People clearly aren't feeling it.

[00:51:07] Speaker 15: Gas prices are above what they were the last year of Donald Trump's administration. But also last year of Donald Trump's administration, no one was driving. We were in the middle of COVID. And so when you compare four years ago to now, a lot of those numbers are depressed because of what COVID did. We talk about inflation. And yes, it hurts. It hurts everyone. It's something unlike unemployment that every single American, no matter how wealthy or poor you feel, you go to the grocery store and buy something, you see the prices are up. You don't necessarily lose your job in a recession, but you could see inflation. But it's also a worldwide problem. And it's something that affected our audience in the U.K., I'm sure. Germany, Japan, all of the Western countries, they all dealt with a spike in inflation. And the U.S., comparatively speaking, actually inflation wasn't as bad here. And so when you hear conservatives try to lay this all at the feet of Joe Biden and some of the spending plans that he had shortly after he took the White House, there is also the fact that this was a post-COVID global phenomenon.

[00:52:12] Speaker 3: Listen, inflation has made America unaffordable, period. So it doesn't matter if the unemployment rate's at 3.7 or 4.2. If at the end of the week you're trying to pay in your bills and your dollar doesn't stretch as far as it did the previous administration, that's going to be a problem. And that is what has troubled the entire Biden-Harris administration for nearly 40 months. They have failed to hit their own target of inflation, which made America unaffordable for the vast majority of working-class folks, paycheck-to-paycheck folks, and even sort of the low economic scale. And they did nothing to address it. All they've done in the respect to address it is just promise to put more money into the economy to further expand inflation. And it is 100% accurate. I'll explain economics to you. Excuse me. Don't speak to me like you need to speak to Donald Trump, who is a child on a fourth-grade reading level. When you tell college kids, we're going to forgive your college loan, you know, your hundreds of thousands of dollars in loan, that's money into the economy. That's money that's going to be added into inflation as we're having these— Well, the Fed disagrees with you, which is why they just cut interest rates. But that's for—I'm saying the policy— But you're smarter than everybody else on the Fed.

[00:53:24] Speaker 6: Let me get a bit more into it.

[00:53:25] Speaker 1: You've only got about four minutes left. Yes, the man. I think you're wearing a green top there. I can't quite see you.

[00:53:30] Speaker 26: So him saying that, like, the Biden administration has done nothing towards inflation is to use a British term, bollocks. Obviously, inflation was bad. I'm not trying to put that word on question time before, but it's a fact. There's no denying that inflation was bad, right? But the Biden administration let the experts at the Fed and other monetary policy folks deal with it, right? The Fed raised rates. Inflation came down. It's back down to about 3% at this point and continues to go down. And this all happened without causing a recession, which, historically, nearly every time this type of cycle influences a recession. So if anything, like, the economy is on the right track now. It was bad. It was fixed. It's on the right track. Let's not ruin it again with another Trump term.

[00:54:15] Speaker 5: In fact, it's a very good point about growth. I mean, this economy, the American economy, and I know some people in the audience don't like facts, has grown twice as fast as Canada's, triple the EU's, eight times as much as the UK's, right? That is the American economy right now. It's had really bad inflation. At least put it in context. But real wages are up. Household net worth is up. Unemployment's at a record low. The economy, by any objective measure, is doing well now. And by the way, Brian, he's talking about economists. Your guys, not lefties, not communists, Goldman Sachs, Moody's, they're all saying Kamala Harris will be better for the economy than Trump. Take it up, take it up on those guys. But I've got to say one last thing, one sentence. You said the economy's the most important issue. Actually, democracy's the most important issue, which we haven't talked about tonight. Donald Trump incited an armed insurrection, as the gentleman said. We haven't talked about that. I haven't heard from the two Republicans on the panel whether they support that insurrection.

[00:55:06] Speaker 9: Do they accept that Donald Trump lost the last election? Hang on, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

[00:55:13] Speaker 6: I am in charge of this thing, and I want to hear from Ben.

[00:55:16] Speaker 1: So Ben, are you convinced at all by what people are saying about the fact that the economy is actually doing really rather well in America?

[00:55:23] Speaker 25: So, to say that the economy is doing better, yes, OK, than when they initially started the last three and a half years. When the common inflation rates that are given do not factor in food, they do not factor in fuel, which is the largest driving factor of inflation and my wallet not going as far. OK, I hear you. Period. We've only got a couple of minutes left.

[00:55:55] Speaker 6: Let me just say this about energy.

[00:55:57] Speaker 9: Let me just say this about energy. And again, we have to engage with the fact. There has been more domestic drilling under the Biden-Harris administration than under any, there just is, there just has been. You don't have to, there are folks, first of all, let me be very clear. There are folks who care about the issue of climate change who do not like the fact that I am saying to you right now that there has been more domestic drilling in oil and natural gas than under any administration ever. So those are the facts. And so this idea that we have not unleashed American energy is, to use the word twice on question time, bullocks. It's bullocks. Bullocks.

[00:56:34] Speaker 24: OK, whoa. Take me to the next show and then I will learn.

[00:56:40] Speaker 1: OK, I've got about 30 seconds left. Yes, this woman here with the glasses at the front of the jacket, yeah.

[00:56:45] Speaker 27: Yes, allow me to give a personal example that's also.

[00:56:49] Speaker 1: You've got about 30 seconds to do it, Justina.

[00:56:51] Speaker 27: Yeah, indicative of at least 15 other I've talked with. We are parents when our teenage children, two, still needed our help. Our health care insurance costed anywhere between $1,600 and $1,900 a month. It returned to, for people whose children had gone, to approximately $800 to $900 a month. A few months ago we received letters saying, Ah, your situation has changed. We now need $1,800 a month from you for health care insurance. We are people who need to see a doctor once a year. We have less than two prescription drugs. Our children's health care expenses have already been paid for.

[00:57:35] Speaker 1: So this rise in prices is really hurting you.

[00:57:37] Speaker 27: So as John F. Kennedy said, what can we do for our country? What can we do, Democrat or Republican, to be able to sustain health care that's good for everyone and not be evicted from our rental apartments that have also increased the amount that we're paying for rent?

[00:57:54] Speaker 1: Thank you very much for your contribution. I'm afraid I have to end it here because we are out of time. So, gosh, that was lively, wasn't it?

[00:58:02] Speaker 8: Thank you very much for all of that. That's it from the wonderful city of Philadelphia.

[00:58:11] Speaker 1: Don't forget Rotherham next week. Remember, we're live on the BBC iPlayer at 8 o'clock every Thursday if you want to watch us early in the evening rather than after the 10 o'clock news. But thank you very much to the panel. Thank you very much to our audience here in Philadelphia. It's been really great to see you all. And, of course, to you at home, thank you very much for watching. Good night.