Starmer courts China trade amid Trump’s warning (Full Transcript)

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Nomya Iqbal. The British Prime Minister, Keir Starmer, is in Shanghai on the third and final day of his visit to China to strengthen economic ties. As Sir Keir arrived in Shanghai, President Trump told journalists that it would be dangerous for the UK to do more business with China. But the British government said the US was aware of the trip and its objectives in advance, and also pointed out that Mr Trump himself was due to visit China in April. Sir Keir Starmer has said he won't choose between Beijing and Washington. Here's President Trump.

[00:00:34] Speaker 2: Mr President, what do you think about the UK getting into business with China? Keir Starmer was in Beijing.

[00:00:39] Speaker 3: Well, it's very dangerous for them to do that, and it's even more dangerous, I think, for Canada to get into business with China. Canada is not doing well. They're doing very poorly. And you can't look at China as the answer. I know China very well. I know President Xi is a friend of mine. I know him very well. But that's a big hurdle to go over when you get Canada. The first thing they're going to do is say you're not allowed to play ice hockey anymore. That's not good. Canada's not going to like that.

[00:01:09] Speaker 1: The Prime Minister had been speaking at a business forum in Beijing just before taking his flight to Shanghai for the third day of his visit, where he asked people to engage with organisations travelling in his delegation, as it would lead to greater trust.

[00:01:25] Speaker 4: Yesterday we warmly engaged and made some real progress, actually, because the UK has got a huge amount to offer, and I was able to set that out. And as a result of our engagement, we've halved the tariffs on whiskey and also got visa-free travel to China for Brits. So really important access, symbolic of what we're doing with the relationship. And I wanted to showcase our delegation. We've got a great delegation of all the best, the top businesses across the United Kingdom and cultural, sports and arts and museums are all travelling with us. So to our Chinese colleagues, I say please take the opportunity to mix with our delegation because that engagement is so important. I fundamentally believe that the more we engage, the more we exchange, the more we take advantage of the opening of access to opportunities, business, art and culture and so many others, then that is the way that we build the mutual trust and respect that is so important.

[00:02:33] Speaker 1: Sir Keir Starmer speaking there. Well, our correspondent Stephen Macdonald is in Shanghai. Stephen, the Prime Minister there making a real plea to organisations travelling in his delegation saying it will lead to greater trust. Will it? And also, can you give us a sense of what is happening today as well?

[00:02:52] Speaker 5: Well, I mean, on the immediate front, it's been a very cold and rainy day, a tough day for Keir Starmer to have been walking around this garden and marketplace area. So I hope he's had his warm clothes on. But in terms of the focus, it's yet again on trade. Those remarks, we heard them before him speaking about, you know, the building of trade relations and later tonight there's to be another function with both Chinese and UK businesses. They're talking up the value of rebuilding the links between the two countries. Now, of course, this comes off the back of some very frosty years. And Keir Starmer has said that with Xi Jinping, he raised human rights abuses. He raised the question of Jimmy Lai's incarceration. And so there are big areas of dispute between these countries. And yet both governments would say the crucial thing is to try to find the common ground, whether it be, you know, defending free trade or whether it be cooperating on renewable energy and the likes, you know, or high tech, anything or pharmaceuticals or agricultural products for that matter.

[00:04:06] Speaker 1: It's interesting, Stephen, because you've got Sir Keir Starmer clearly wanting to have this relationship with Beijing. But on the other hand, he's got President Trump saying, well, if you basically do any business with China, you could face some consequences like he is doing with Canada. I just wonder how much of a diplomatic tightrope this is right now for the British prime minister.

[00:04:27] Speaker 5: Well, it's interesting. I think the reason those comments have attracted so much attention is that, you know, when the Canadian prime minister came here, they did deals like this. Donald Trump threatened 100 percent tariffs on Canada. The reason I don't think that's going to happen with the UK is that it also followed this speech that the Canadian prime minister made, basically calling on other countries to stand up to the bullying of the Trump administration. And I don't think the UK prime minister is in the same camp. He hasn't made a speech like that. And so for that reason, I don't think any of the businesses which have accompanied Keir Starmer here would expect the UK prime minister to alter the focus of his trip one little bit based on those remarks from Donald Trump. I mean, as has been pointed out, it's also incredible for Donald Trump to say that when he's due here himself in the coming months. And what would we not expect to have deals between America and China announced on such a trip? And so, yes, for that matter, for that reason, I don't think anyone expects it to be treated that seriously.

[00:05:34] Speaker 1: It's good to talk to you, Stephen. Thank you so much. Stay warm. Stephen Macdonald there in Beijing. Let's cross now to Isabel Hilton, who is a journalist and a China expert and a visiting professor at King's College London. Good to have you on. Just picking up on what Stephen was saying there that the UK isn't likely to be punished by President Trump. Nonetheless, it is still a tightrope, isn't it, for the British prime minister? He's saying he's not going to choose between Washington and Beijing. Is that possible?

[00:06:06] Speaker 2: Well, I think it has to be possible. I sometimes wonder whether President Trump is aware that the United States is Beijing's largest trade partner. It's kind of nonsense. So every move, every diplomatic move, every business deal is a choice of some sort. The idea that there is one big binary choice between the United States and China is quite odd that the United States itself is going down. But it is true that in every engagement, there are choices to be made between security, between business advantage, which way does it go? And the United Kingdom is not in a terribly strong position vis-a-vis China. So we must make the best of where we are.

[00:06:54] Speaker 1: China, as we know, is this global power. It is unavoidable, isn't it, doing trade with China?

[00:07:02] Speaker 2: Absolutely. In fact, just look around your everyday, the things you use every day, how many of them are either made directly in China or have components that are made in China. And I think that the excitement over trade since President Trump came to power have, again, have really illustrated the fact that trade is, we are bound in an intricate web of trade. And you simply can't sever those connections, certainly can't sever them overnight. You may never be able to sever them. So we depend on each other. And I think the purposes of trips like Kiarostama's is to, is to minimize the drama, and to ensure that we are in a position to defend national interests, whilst, you know, not behaving like North Korea, and pretending that the United Kingdom doesn't need to do business with the world's largest, second largest economy.

[00:08:03] Speaker 1: And just briefly as well, picking up on that last answer, do you think that's the most significant outcome then of this visit by the Prime Minister with China?

[00:08:11] Speaker 2: I think that there aren't going to be huge deals. You know, that if you look at the shape of the Chinese economy and the trend of the Chinese economy towards its more, you know, domestic markets in recent years, I think those days are over. There are opportunities for services, as we know, in certain services, in legal services, in education, and that's the strength of the United Kingdom. It's not going to be game changing, but it does need to be steady. And it does need to be, we do need to be present.

[00:08:41] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your insight there, Isabel. Appreciate it. That's Isabel Hilton, a journalist and China expert, also a visiting professor at King's College London.