Starmer Meets Xi to Thaw UK–China Relations in Beijing (Full Transcript)

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Keir Starmer has told Xi Jinping he wants a more sophisticated relationship with China as he met the President at the Great Hall of People on the first full day of his trip. The Prime Minister said China was a vital player on the global stage. Speaking ahead of a tour of the Forbidden City, he also confirmed to the BBC that he raised the case of Jimmy Lai and the issue of human rights. In his opening remarks, President Xi said the UK-China relationship had seen in recent years twists and turns that did not serve the interests of either country. But he said China stood ready to develop a long-term strategic partnership. Our China correspondent Steve Macdonald reports from Beijing.

[00:00:42] Speaker 2: At the Great Hall of the People, the first British Prime Minister to visit in eight years was welcomed. The governments of both China and the UK have decided that relations had been in the cold for too long and now the thaw is well and truly on.

[00:00:58] Speaker 3: China is a vital player on the global stage and it's vital that we build a more sophisticated relationship where we can identify opportunities to collaborate but of course also allow a meaningful dialogue on areas where we disagree.

[00:01:17] Speaker 4: You've publicly said that China is an opportunity and that dealing with China is not a choice but a necessity. I commend these words. China stands ready to develop with the UK a long-term and consistent comprehensive strategic partnership. It will benefit our two peoples and the wider world.

[00:01:41] Speaker 2: Even before his arrival, the Chinese government was talking up Britain's commitment to free trade and multilateral institutions like the United Nations. The contrast being with the Trump administration. It's Beijing's way of saying that these are areas where like-minded countries can cooperate. After today's meeting with Xi, the UK leader was upbeat about the outcome.

[00:02:04] Speaker 3: Well we've agreed that on tariffs of whisky we're looking at how they're to be reduced, what the time frame is, visa-free travel, how far, how much and when that can start and on the information exchange on small boats, the cooperation that we need within a dialogue actually about greater strategic focus on security and defence.

[00:02:28] Speaker 2: Boosting business and cultural links may be dominating this trip but whether it be the Chinese government's treatment of ethnic minorities in Xinjiang or other accusations of abuse, sensitive issues can't be ignored. When visiting the Chinese capital, Western governments are seen as duty-bound to raise the issue of China's significant human rights abuses and Keir Starmer is no different. In fact, the Chinese government would expect no less. If a Western politician was to come to Beijing and not stand up for their principles they'd be considered as weak and treated as such. However the goal of trips like this is not to focus on points of difference but where cooperation can be achieved and a series of deals are expected to be signed over the coming hours. It's why Britain's business community has joined this delegation in such big numbers.

[00:03:23] Speaker 1: Let's speak now to a former Director of Operations and Intelligence for MI6 and now Senior Advisor for Cyber Security and China at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, Nigel Inkster. Thank you for joining us, Nigel. We know that China is obviously a global power but just give us a sense of the risk it poses to the UK especially when it comes to cyber security.

[00:03:49] Speaker 5: Well, China represents a very different ideology from that of the UK. It's certainly not a liberal democracy and has no intention of becoming one and it does see itself as caught up in a global contest to determine what ideology becomes globally predominant. So there is always this factor that's going to have to be borne in mind when dealing with China. And we've seen China engaging in a wide range of activities which are in different ways detrimental to UK interest. You mentioned pervasive cyber espionage some of which falls within what one might characterize as the legitimate scope of espionage, state-on-state espionage in pursuit of national security. But a lot of it is also about industrial espionage for economic benefit which is in many ways probably more immediately detrimental to UK national interests. We've also seen China seeking to exercise covert influence in the UK through a variety of means. I think the thing is, having said all that, it's pretty clear what they're doing and I think it's pretty clear that our security and intelligence agencies have a fairly good handle on what is happening. So I would say that the situation is eminently manageable.

[00:05:31] Speaker 1: The issue is that China obviously can't be ignored. So I wonder how do you balance engaging with a country which obviously the British Prime Minister is trying to do as well as being defensive?

[00:05:44] Speaker 5: It is a very difficult trick to pull off and frankly I think it requires Einstein-level intellect to work out how to do this. But no, seriously, I think the UK can do quite well I think out of this relationship. But what it does have to do is make sure that its own house is in order, that its institutions are in good shape, its sense of willingness to defend its values and interests that really matter is well thought through. And to put it bluntly, if China does something that is clearly detrimental to the UK interests, then there needs to be a robust response. China normally, when it encounters no resistance, continues to push forward. When it does encounter resistance, it draws back.

[00:06:45] Speaker 1: It's good to get your take, Nigel. Thank you so much. Nigel Inkster there, who is a former Director of Operations and Intelligence for MI6 now, Senior Advisor for Cyber Security and China at the International Institute for Strategic Studies. Let's speak now to Stephen Macdonald who is in Beijing for us. Stephen, obviously this is being seen as a big deal here in the UK. I wonder if it's being viewed like that in China?

[00:07:15] Speaker 2: Certainly it's getting a lot of attention and I suppose the significance of this visit all depends on who you are. If you're a British company wanting to do business in China or a Chinese company wanting to do business here, then it is obviously going to be a big deal. If you're a student of world politics and you're examining the way that Western countries are realigning because they can't rely on the US anymore under Donald Trump and moving closer to trade with China, obviously it's also significant. But really the big question is the impact on the whole trajectory of Britain-China relations. I think what many observers here, the serious China watchers, would hope that we can move to a stage where people in the West are not expected to choose between China as totalitarian hell or China as worker's paradise. That really this is a complex place and that while China can be criticised, for example, for the very serious human rights abuses here, it can also be praised for the great achievements in the development of new technologies and transport and that in that space countries like the UK can start to do more trade here. That's the path that the UK government would like to be walking along right now.

[00:08:42] Speaker 1: Stephen, as we know this visit is a three-day exercise. It's all about defrosting relations between London and Beijing. Do we know what to expect from the... It's another day to go, correct?

[00:08:56] Speaker 2: Yeah, well, another half a day here and then another whole day tomorrow. So, for example, there is a big business meeting later on in the coming hours. Deals are going to be announced, memoranda of understanding. This could involve electric vehicles, agriculture, education, pharmaceuticals. Another function later on tonight and then it's all happening again tomorrow in Shanghai, the business capital of China, if I could put it that way. More meetings. Keir Starmer will be sitting down with the Communist Party secretary in that city and other business delegates will be coming along with him. More business meetings, potentially more announcements. So lots more to come. In fact, tomorrow and then even on Saturday morning I think there's more stuff to come. So it is a pretty packed schedule for the UK Prime Minister here in China.

[00:09:49] Speaker 1: Good to talk to you, Stephen.