The Lawyer’s Podcast Year-End Favorites and Lessons (Full Transcript)

[00:00:13] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Stephanie.

[00:00:14] Speaker 2: And I'm Zach. And this is episode 594 of the Lawyer's Podcast, part of the Legal Talk Network. Today, Stephanie and I are taking a look back over the year that we've had. This is the last episode of the year. So we thought this would be a nice one to kind of look back at what's happened. We've had a lot of episodes.

[00:00:36] Speaker 1: We have. I mean, happy almost New Year, Zach.

[00:00:39] Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. Same to you. Same to you.

[00:00:42] Speaker 1: And what a year it's been, right? I mean, it was fun just to have the exercise, just to have the homework of assigning us which episodes were our favorite of the year. It was kind of fun to go back and be like, oh yeah, that one was this year. That was a good episode.

[00:00:56] Speaker 2: Yeah. And for the listeners, we both kind of went and looked to see what our favorite three or four episodes for the year were. And we came back and discussed them a little bit with each other. As you can imagine, we had a lot of overlapping ones and not too many because, you know, it's a pretty diverse set of podcasts that we have out there. But we went and looked at that and it's not necessarily the ones that are the most watched or the most listened to or anything like that. Some of these are ones that we just, we think you should, I think you should hear. Yeah.

[00:01:33] Speaker 1: So what's first on your list?

[00:01:35] Speaker 2: So the first on my list, and this is always kind of first in my pocket on podcasts you should listen to is Catherine Sanders Reach. It's episode 553. This is the second time we've had Catherine Sanders Reach on the podcast. It is called AI Tools and Processes Every Lawyer Should Use. Her advice is just so practical. It is always very, you know, like literally go do this and go get this tool. She is part of the North Carolina Bar and she helps attorneys in the North Carolina Bar with their legal technology and running their practices. And so it's just, her advice is just so practical. She's so great to talk to about stuff like that.

[00:02:23] Speaker 1: Yeah. I always love that. I love when we can provide those real practical tips and it's just easy to say, okay, take this, do this, run with it. And I love that she brings that to the show.

[00:02:34] Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and just, you know, these aren't necessarily going to be all the most popular episodes, but one of the shorts that we have out of that episode is just plays all the time. So we'll get a lot of value out of what she has to say.

[00:02:48] Speaker 1: So since you went tech, I'll go the opposite of tech for my first one. I want to give a shout out to episode 573, which was with Kat Velos.

[00:02:59] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:03:00] Speaker 1: Courtroom to the community. But really for me, it was about how do we make adult friends and how do we talk to people? Like, I want, I personally, so maybe it's one of my favorites because I really wanted to do this episode. You know, I think even the person, like she was like, wait, why do you want me to come on your podcast about lawyers or business? And I was like, no, because we need help where, you know, I've moved to a new area. It's intimidating to try to make new friends and talk to people and have, how do you take acquaintances from acquaintances to friends? And I think like, I really enjoyed her book because again, some practical, real easy steps, how you engage with people and how you, you know, how you try to drum up new relationships.

[00:03:51] Speaker 2: I love that one because, you know, you go through undergrad, you go through law school and you have, you have these places that, you know, you're, you're dumped into a room with like-minded people or relatively like-minded people. And so these are just like great places to meet new friends and, you know, a lot of people, their best friends come from, you know, that. And how do you find that when you're out working? Because the people that you run into as an attorney, a lot of times are adversarial. You can be friendly with them, but they're adversarial. So yeah, I love this one.

[00:04:26] Speaker 1: All right. What's next on your list?

[00:04:28] Speaker 2: I went with some that kind of blew my mind. What are the ones where I went, oh, I didn't even know that was a thing. And we have one on mental health first aid with Soumya and Jill. It is number 585, first aid for the mind, mental health and the law. We as a company brought them in to teach mental health first aid to our leadership and our supervisors and things like that. And the idea of preparing for what do you do when, when somebody else that you're working with may be having some sort of episode. And quite frankly, it strikes me very closely because I go to counseling, I work actively on my mental health. And it's nice to think that, you know, other people have like, what would I do first if this happened? You know, and it just, it blew my mind, you know, glass shattering sort of moment.

[00:05:27] Speaker 1: No, I think this is a topic that we all, I mean, and I feel like everyone should do the training. I was really fortunate to be a recipient of their training. They're both great trainers. They did such a good job and, and such a good job on the podcast as well. And I mean, I don't actually think I've ever said, have said this out loud yet, but I had a situation in my personal life recently where I was worried about somebody and their mental health and I knew what questions to ask them. And I was able to use that training in a very specific way that we built up to in, in that course. And I mean, I kind of almost even like shocked myself that I was like, okay, like it's, it was still very hard, but I knew what questions I need to ask this person to make sure they were okay. And they weren't going to, you know, hurt themselves. And I would not have been that equipped to do that and take those actions and ask those questions if I hadn't been through that training.

[00:06:29] Speaker 2: Who would be, you know, I mean, that's the, yeah, we, we, we growing up, we learned things about regular, what I'm going to call regular first aid. You know, what do you do if somebody twists their ankle, if somebody breaks their leg, if somebody gets a laceration, you know, I remember in high school learning the difference between a cut and a laceration and we know where to take them. I know where the closest hospital is to my, to my house or to the places that, that I, you know, coach at, I have first aid kits, never thought about it for mental health.

[00:07:06] Speaker 1: I guess next on my list is an episode actually with one of our labsters, someone who's in our lab community. And Craig Dobson came on, he came on episode 554. And really he is his, in his practice, he advises lawyers on ethical issues. And he came on and talked to us about a couple of things. But the thing that really stood out to me is if you have flat fees, you know, and the scope changes, the process in this case changes because he does a lot of immigration law. So we actually talked about in this current administration, when, when the process is changing so quickly and so drastically, what if you set your fees based on one set of parameters and then that shifts and are you allowed to go back and ask the client for a different fee? How do you approach that? And so many of us, I mean, all year we've been talking about, not just even this year, but really AI has really forced this billable, is the billable hour dead or on life support conversation. And I think as we move towards flat fees, a lot of attorneys are, are up for it, but then they're just still worried. What about the unknowns? When can I go back? How do I structure the flat fee up front to protect myself? And we dug into a lot of those issues from an ethical point of view, which I thought was, is really helpful for attorneys to kind of think about.

[00:08:34] Speaker 2: Yeah, that really is. And we've got a couple of things on, you know, the ethics of artificial intelligence, but that one, you know, that's again, very practical, you know, like that's something that you run into that not every, not every profession would run into. I actually, before Craig became a labster, I had taken multiple CLEs that he had put on. So he, he knows his, he knows his ethics. He knows his professional responsibility stuff and is very, very thoughtful about it.

[00:09:12] Speaker 1: That's a really good one.

[00:09:15] Speaker 2: That's a really good one. I like that. One that I really appreciated that we did, and this is an interview that you did. We had been looking for, you know, we obviously as people who do podcasting, our, our voice, our delivery, all that is, and this is a tool, but lawyers, your delivery, your voice, your ability to tell a story, your ability to capture, you know, capture people's attention is really important. So we had number 539, we had Rena Cook on and you interviewed her on voice training for lawyers. I loved that one. I got, I found a book out of her background. I ordered a book from, from looking at the background of, of her talking.

[00:10:09] Speaker 1: Oh, you mean like her actual background and like what was behind her?

[00:10:14] Speaker 2: Yes. Her actual bookshelf.

[00:10:15] Speaker 1: So you read her background and you thought, that's a good book. Okay.

[00:10:18] Speaker 2: I was so like captured by, by the content of this, that I w I was willing to essentially just like look at the, at her bookshelf and be like, Ooh, that, that looks like a good book. But she, she did that, that one, I mean, obviously you can listen to or watch it, but that one's great because of how she's able to command her voice, command her, her tone and does it in real time. It's a fascinating one.

[00:10:48] Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, she kind of coaches me in real time on using my voice. And I do feel like, I remember that that's a good one to watch. Like if you head to our YouTube channel, right. Because she shows us even like where you're placing your, your tongue can matter. And I thought, you know, things that you don't, it's okay. Here's a part of your body that most of us use every day, but not intentionally necessarily. I mean, maybe some people do, but.

[00:11:20] Speaker 2: And not deliberately. Yeah. Yeah. I, so kind of a personal story I have for this podcast at times, you know, looked for acting coaches or, you know, who to, to help coach me on how to deliver, um, in the podcast. And that's hard to find, but she's the right one, you know, it's, it's, and that, that one's a really cool. And I like that one a lot as you can, as you can tell.

[00:11:46] Speaker 1: Yeah. That's a good one. I need to go. I'll go re-listen. I'll re-watch. Learn. We started, you started with technology, so I'll go back to the technology one because I feel like I have to mention, um, episode 565. This was the one I did with Jeff Woods. He wrote the book, The AI Driven Leader. And really when I read that book last year, really solidified for me a whole different approach to how I'm using LLMs like Chat GPT and Claude as my thought partner. I really feel like it, it's what took my use of those tools, like in a whole new direction, which is brainstorming and having a conversation, asking, asking these tools, what am I not thinking about? And I know we, we are very particular. We have some very cool nerdy people on our team and it's like, Hey guys, these tools are not thinking and we should, we should be more precise with our language and make sure we're really understanding what the tools are able to deliver. And yet it feels like this tool can kind of think and help and help me think and push me in new ways. And that's pretty cool too.

[00:13:06] Speaker 2: Yeah. I use that concept of the, that thought partner all the time, all the time, you know, in talking to people on how to, how to use AI. And I agree with you that that's again, one of those kind of fundamental episodes that adjusted how I approach something. Yeah. I think that one's wonderful. And that's, yeah, that's Jeff Woods. The AI driven leader, I believe is the name of the book. Most of us at the company have that book now.

[00:13:38] Speaker 1: Yeah. And I mean, a lot of you have come up to me in the, in the last year and said, Hey, thank you for that episode because of that, I went and bought the book. I am using it that way. Like it's been great. So I love that he had such a profound impact on, on us and our team, but also a lot of the lawyers that are listening. So if that was one, maybe you missed or you want it, you're looking for a book to read over the holidays. It's a quick, it's an easy read and it's, it's designed so you can kind of skip around and use the chapters more as a resource than a narrative.

[00:14:13] Speaker 2: Well, you know, thinking about it being the holidays right now, it might be a good one to send to one of your friends, you know, send to a buddy that you think, um, could use that. Cause I, yeah. So for me, speaking of, of, uh, kind of some of the people in our, our group that would tell us that the AI is not thinking that it's just math, um, it's, it's just smart math, you know, um, five 77. I got to interview Sam Harden and Sam Harden is one of our new innovation strategists. Um, he has been in the legal tech sphere, well-respected mind and thinker. Every day I see something where somebody is like, Sam said this, check out Sam substack and I have to agree with them. I got to interview him for an episode called rethinking law firm growth in the age of AI. It's episode five 77 and the, like, that's a mouthful to just say, instead of trying to use AI to reduce, you know, what you're, what you're doing, reduce your load, reduce your cost, reduce the amount of people you have in your office. Sam thinks of it as a way to expand what it is you're doing. So instead of reducing what it is, you know, you, you use the AI to really kick up a notch, um, to, to use a Emeril Lagasse term, but otherwise you're kind of using AI to, to die, you know, to wither. And that is, that's, yeah, it's not an exciting way to think of AI, you know, you think of it and it's like, well, it's just going to do, it's going to come and take my job. You know, I'm just going to be George Jetson, Jetson just pushing the button like, no, we're, we're doing broader than that. We're going to make it do more. We're going to do more stuff because of this AI and, and I'll tell you, Sam does more stuff because of AI. He constantly blows my mind with the, with the things that he's thinking about and, and is tinkering with and creating on the side. Yeah. I love that one.

[00:16:24] Speaker 1: Yeah. I love, I love Sam's brain and, and all the things he's able to do with it. And, um, I mean, cool, cool announcement. You can hear it here first. Sam's going to be doing a weekly office hours, kind of forum host inside of our lab community in Q1. So if you're wondering like, okay, that's cool, but how does that show up inside of lab?

[00:16:49] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:16:50] Speaker 1: I think this is going to be a really cool new thing that we're adding so people can come in, ask, you know, Sam's going to obviously give, give an update what's happening in AI this week. Sam has topics for each week in case people don't have questions or issues, including like vibe coding for a better client experience is one of the topics. And if you're like, but, but, but also really some basic ones. So like, you know, for all levels. So if you're like, I'm an advanced power user, he's got stuff for you. Or if you're just trying to get started in your, these tools still feel a little scary for you. That's okay. Cause he's got stuff for you too. So really excited for some of the, he just sent me the list of topics for Q1 and it's going to be pretty cool.

[00:17:35] Speaker 2: Very cool. Well, and if people out there in podcast land are wondering what vibe coding is, listen to episode 577, we, we talk about that. This is something rarely do I think, Ooh, I want to just go be a fly on the wall of that. Like this is, this is a thing that I'm probably just going to go sit in and listen to at various times during the week. So that's, that's an exciting topic.

[00:18:00] Speaker 1: Well, you challenged us to come up with our top three, but I had an honorable mention. So this is my, my honorable mention one is episode 579 with Amy Woods. So this is one of those that you're going to, that I just feel like it needs a nod because we got into the trust accounting rules, IELTSA accounts, a sheeting log, that probably is not like the top of anybody's to-do list, but listen, we got to stay, we got to stay in compliance and we don't want to, you know, I remember my professional responsibility professor said like on the first day of law school, they came in and they said, if I gave you a money tree, would you chop it down? And the, the point being don't violate the rules, people don't put your money tree in jeopardy because that's what you do when you, you know, don't follow all these rules that we have for our profession. This is one of those episodes, like don't chop down your money tree. You need to listen to it because you need to make sure you're doing the three-way reconciliation and you're following all the rules that your state requires. And a lot of us, too many of us kind of put our head in the sand on this one and just hope that we're doing things right. So I get it. That doesn't sound very sexy or exciting, but you probably need to listen and just make sure you're good or have your, I can make sure, maybe even have your accountant listen because honestly, a lot of our bookkeepers, we don't know lawyers specific and that's which the, one of the things she calls out, they may be doing two-way reconciliation, but are they doing three-way reconciliation? I don't know, but, but you should know you want to sleep good at night, right?

[00:19:43] Speaker 2: And if you're sitting here thinking what's three-way reconciliation, go listen to that episode.

[00:19:47] Speaker 1: Cause I don't want to screw it up and tell you wrong. She defines it very well. Don't listen to me about it, but I remember enough that I asked her and I was like, wait, hold on backup. Let me go over that again. And, and we got real clear on it.

[00:20:03] Speaker 2: I like that. That's a good one to, to end on because I think people, you know, the primacy and recency, I think people need to keep that one in their minds. But I want to know what other people like what struck everyone else. If you're listening to this on Apple or Spotify or something like that, leave us a comment of what was your favorite episode this year. If you're on YouTube, leave us a comment there. If you're not on any of them, send us an email, comment on Instagram, LinkedIn, you can find us everywhere. But yeah, I want to know what other, what struck other people because.

[00:20:38] Speaker 1: And is there a topic you want us to make sure we cover in 2026 because we're doing that all the time too, right? Like we're constantly like planning out what the future episodes. So if there's an author that you loved or somebody, a topic you think we could cover in a different way, we're all ears.

[00:20:58] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:20:59] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[00:21:00] Speaker 2: Love it. Well, Stephanie, thank you. This was a good year. I enjoyed this one.

[00:21:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, no, thank you. And thank you to all of our listeners because of you. We're still doing this. We got our Spotify wrapped and you guys are still listening. So yay. Thank you.

[00:21:20] Speaker 2: Yeah. So they're, they're awesome. And, you know, stay tuned. I'm excited about 2026.