Trump NATO remarks spark UK backlash and trust doubts (Full Transcript)

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: How dare he say we weren't on the front line? How dare he?

[00:00:05] Speaker 2: Why are we still fostering a special relationship with Donald Trump and the US when his recent actions prove that he can't be trusted?

[00:00:12] Speaker 3: Well, it's been pretty lively this week, hasn't it, with Donald Trump? Greg, I'm going to come to you first, because I think you probably have a greater understanding, or certainly sympathy, with Donald Trump's position. We've had a week where he's threatened to take over Greenland. He's threatened to impose tariffs. He's insulted NATO allies. I just want to tell you about something he's also said this evening about NATO allies in an interview with Fox News. He talked about NATO not coming to help the United States if it needed them. And he said, we've never needed them. They say they sent some troops to Afghanistan, and this or that. And they did. They stayed a little back, a little off the front lines. What do you make of that?

[00:01:03] Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a mistake. And look, the president is very unfiltered, and often doesn't have his facts perfectly lined up. We all know that not only was the UK fighting alongside of us in both of those wars, but so was Denmark. And so, in fact, the percentage of casualties for Denmark was as high as the United States. So look, it was a mistake. He's very unfiltered. But to the question, of course he can be trusted. I think the president wants a stronger NATO. And in many respects, alongside the Russia-Ukraine conflict that I think inspired the Europeans to step it up. But he's been very critical. So has Barack Obama, for that matter. It's just that President Obama wasn't able to get any reaction and encourage the Europeans to step up defense spending. And the president's been successful with that. So we'll see. I mean, you have Denmark, for example, at 3%. They were only at 1.6 back in 2022. So you're seeing the outcome. So you might not like the delivery. You might not like how he behaves, or how he makes the argument. But the argument is a good one. And so, in this case, obviously a mistake on the reference to Afghanistan and Iraq. But the outcome is that we'll have a stronger NATO, whether that's because we have more defense mechanisms in Greenland, or you have all the countries in NATO, all the European countries, committing to 5% of GDP. Whether they get there is a different argument.

[00:02:36] Speaker 1: Emily, what do you make of that comment by Donald Trump? It's not a mistake. It's not a mistake. It's so much more than a mistake. It's an absolute insult. It's an insult to 457 families who lost someone in Afghanistan. How dare he say we weren't on the front lines? How dare he? We have always been there. Whenever the Americans have wanted us, we have always been there. I went out to the United States at the beginning of the year. And I had supper with a lot of Republicans who, to be quite honest, I didn't exactly expect to get on with and have a great deal to do with. But the one thing that was clearly there, there was a genuine affection for the United Kingdom because they understood. They were all military men. And they knew that whenever they had been fighting, they had been fighting alongside someone from Britain who had been there to support the United States and be involved in action with the United States. How dare this man, who's never seen any action, who somehow or other, when there was a draft for everybody else in the United States, managed to avoid it, and yet now is commander in chief and knows nothing about how it is that America has been defended? I mean, seriously, it's an absolute insult. We have had a very shocking few days. We've had a very shocking few days. We have had the leader of Britain's most important ally with whom we do have a close relationship in terms of defense, in terms of security, strong economic relationship, cultural, historic. America's our friends. But we have had a leader of that country who has behaved in a way which is bullying, which is rude, which has been deliberately trying to undermine us, which has been trying to undermine NATO. And you wonder, where does this end? It's as if he has no anchor. It's as if he has no off button. And what we have done, fortunately, and I'm really proud that we have, is we have stood, we have linked arms with our other friends and nations, and we have said, no, enough, Donald Trump. No more of this. You are not getting Greenland. You are not introducing tariffs. You are not going to be involved in military action. You are not going to breach international law. This is the line. Do not cross it.

[00:04:46] Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not sure that he will react to those threats or whatever you want to describe them as, but...

[00:04:52] Speaker 1: We don't threaten, we're just saying no.

[00:04:54] Speaker 4: OK, but do you think NATO will be stronger because of Donald Trump? And I think the answer is yes.

[00:05:00] Speaker 1: No, I don't think, Donald, I don't think that NATO is being stronger because I think the idea of the most important member of NATO saying that it's going to take on NATO and is going to invade one of the NATO countries undermines us. Now, we've pulled it back from the brink, thank goodness, and actually what I'm most pleased about is that at least it helps Ukraine, because what we don't want is NATO splintering because it does not help a country like Ukraine for NATO at a moment like this to be splintered in this way. But, you know, I'm not going to pretend that Donald Trump has done anything other than behave in a thoroughly reckless way.

[00:05:37] Speaker 4: So you don't think NATO will be stronger at the end of President Trump's second term? OK, all right.

[00:05:43] Speaker 1: I was talking to the German ambassador yesterday and I said at least one thing that comes out of this is that it helps the smaller nations of NATO to remember that we need to stick together and we need to take more responsibility. Of course we do.

[00:05:56] Speaker 3: OK, there's lots of hands up. Let's hear from the man in the dark blue sweater with the white shirt there. Yes. Yes.

[00:06:02] Speaker 5: I'm very disappointed to hear that Donald Trump said that about people like myself who served in Iraq. You served in Iraq? I was in Iraq in 2003.

[00:06:11] Speaker 3: And so this idea that... Well, he talked about Afghanistan, actually, but the idea that British troops were holding back from the front line.

[00:06:18] Speaker 5: I can promise you I was very close to that front line. I crossed over the border on the first day of the war, you know, and I saw things I don't want to see ever again. I think Mr Trump has just, you know, upset all veterans now. I'm so sorry.

[00:06:34] Speaker 3: OK, thank you. Yes, the man here in the front, in the middle.

[00:06:38] Speaker 6: He's not wrong about this, but he's not wrong about NATO underspend. It's a simple fact. He warned about it in his previous tenure. We had the Bundeswehr and certain NATO exercises wielding brooms instead of machine guns. He warned about Angela Merkel's closing relationship with Putin and over-reliance on Russia for energy, which undermined European security. And the truth is, no matter what you say about him, he is getting NATO to uphold their commitments to their 2% spend. We're in a more dangerous world with Russia and China. We have to arm and we need to start taking the threat seriously, and he's getting that.

[00:07:10] Speaker 3: OK. Harry, you asked a question.

[00:07:12] Speaker 2: Let's hear what you've got to say on it. My only worry is that, why... If, say, that NATO gets stronger, but is threatening other NATO countries with tariffs, with the ways going about it, even if NATO is stronger as a result, the means aren't worth the end. We shouldn't have one NATO country threatening another NATO country. Exactly.

[00:07:32] Speaker 3: OK. Greg, I'll come back to you on that. Yes, man in the middle at the very back. Yeah. Yes, you.

[00:07:37] Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't know why no-one expected this sooner. I mean, the United States only own all their land on, like, the continental United States. They only own the land because they moved in with military force and then forced them to buy it, forced them to sell their land that they didn't want to sell. There's already, like, tonnes of tribes that are being sat with massive money that they didn't want to receive from the United States.

[00:08:00] Speaker 8: So, why... Where are you talking about in particular?

[00:08:03] Speaker 7: Um... Sorry, I can't remember the name. But it's this Northern... In the Northern America.

[00:08:09] Speaker 8: Oh, so you're talking about the Native Americans?

[00:08:10] Speaker 7: Yeah, Native Americans. Yeah. So, the fact that we can recognise all of that and then suddenly, oh, they're doing the exact same thing, but it's Denmark, to a bunch of white people who, you know... That's just...

[00:08:24] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[00:08:25] Speaker 3: That's unsurprising to you?

[00:08:26] Speaker 7: It's unsurprising to me.

[00:08:27] Speaker 3: Stuart? So, Harry's question... By all means, feel free to comment on what Donald Trump said this evening about NATO troops. But Harry's question is, why are we still fostering a special relationship with Donald Trump when his recent actions prove he can't be trusted? Do you think he can be trusted?

[00:08:46] Speaker 9: Well, firstly, on the comments that have been made, I want to echo that they are disgraceful comments, and I want to say thank you to the gentleman who did serve for us. There are many people in this country who served both in Iraq and Iran... Sorry, Iraq and Afghanistan, many of whom lost their lives, but also many more who came back with life-changing injuries, and we should say thank you to them. And it is appalling that that sort of comment has been made. Does that mean, though, that we risk our special relationship? No, because, actually, our relationship with America, and that's what it is, this is a relationship with the country, is so important for our defence, for our security and for our safety.

[00:09:35] Speaker 3: And do you think he can be trusted?

[00:09:38] Speaker 9: Well, I mean, the only thing I will say is, you know, a few weeks ago, were we all talking about the security of the Arctic? No. And we are now.

[00:09:48] Speaker 1: No, but we were talking about Venezuela a couple of weeks ago.

[00:09:51] Speaker 9: No, but I'm not saying that I agree with the methods of getting there, but, actually, there is a very serious threat in the Arctic. There is a very serious threat, and Russia will expose that and use it against us.

[00:10:06] Speaker 3: And do you think threatening to invade was the way to get people's attention?

[00:10:08] Speaker 9: No, absolutely not. Absolutely not. And that's why we were absolutely behind what the Prime Minister said, you know, that you cannot say we will... You know, you'll punish other countries with tariffs because you want to get your way in Greenland. That is not anything to do with the other NATO countries. That is for Greenland, the people of Greenland, and for the Kingdom of Denmark to decide. But, you know, for me, there's a danger... Do a love-actually moment here, but for me, a relationship means that you can be honest and frank, and that is what we have done this week. We've been honest and frank with the President to say, we will not tolerate you putting...threatening tariffs, and we will not tolerate you trying to go against the sovereignty of the people of Greenland and the rights of the Kingdom of Denmark.

[00:11:08] Speaker 10: Lena. Who needs enemies when you've got friends like Donald Trump? Seriously. And the Liberal Democrats have argued, long argued now, we should have learned from the first Trump presidency. We know what this guy's like. We're in a school. He's a bully. You're absolutely right, Emily. He's a bully. He's behaving like an international gangster. And they only understand strength. They only understand... If you aren't strong enough to stand up to them on your own, you get your friends round you and you do it all together. And I think what this has shown us is that the kowtowing, the, you know, kissing of the hand that we've seen, and it has been so difficult to watch Keir Starmer and David Lammy go out there and be best pals and fishing with Vance and all of that, and I understand it was hard to see, but they were making an argument for it. We said, this is going to backfire, they don't care. And then what we saw this week is, lo and behold, they stole our lunch money one time, we caved, and why are we surprised that he did it again? He's going to keep doing it until we work out who our friends really are. And I think this is what this is doing.

[00:12:16] Speaker 3: But you could argue this week, Lena, that he hasn't done it, that he hasn't invaded Greenland. For now. And the tariffs have not been imposed.

[00:12:22] Speaker 10: For now. But do we really want to have to go through this over and over? And it wasn't until, OK, Mark Rutter got him in a room and made some kind of a deal that I don't think Denmark or the people of Greenland had anything to do with, but also the EU got together, suspended trade talks, and then put €93 billion worth of potential sanctions against him, and we all stood in lockstep. He also achieved the unbelievable, which is he got all political parties across the whole spectrum in this country coming out against him. I mean, maybe that's a good thing, maybe not. But this is not the way grown-ups behave. And there are serious questions about his mental acuity. I mean, that is not just a small mistake, I completely agree. It's an absolute insult to brave veterans who have served and died for this country. It's not good enough. So I think it's putting into sharp relief that the way this government has approached Donald Trump is the wrong approach. It's time to have some dignity and stand up for ourselves.

[00:13:23] Speaker 1: I don't agree. I think that actually Keir Starmer has behaved like a grown-up this week.

[00:13:28] Speaker 10: No, Keir Starmer has.

[00:13:29] Speaker 1: I'm talking about Trump. Yeah, but, you know, the way to respond is the way that Keir Starmer has. And he has done it politely, a lot more politely than I would. But he has done it politely, and he's stood up to him, and he's been clear. And that's just in public. We can see, can't we, by the effusive way in which the Danish Prime Minister came straight over to London immediately after the deal was struck and thanked us. The amount of work that's been going on behind the scenes, the sort of things we're probably not going to rule about...

[00:13:56] Speaker 3: All right, let's hear a bit more from our audience.