[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Venezuela's Supreme Court has ordered Vice President Delsi Rodriguez to assume the powers and duties of the acting president. The order was announced just last night after the court determined that Maduro can no longer exercise his functions as president. Rodriguez has demanded Maduro's release. As CNN's Paula Newt reports, she struck a defiant tone on her first day leading the country.

[00:00:25] Speaker 2: Just hours after the dramatic extraction of her president by U.S. forces, Venezuelan Vice President Delsi Rodriguez was the picture of defiance. Surrounded by regime loyalists, she called the U.S. operation barbaric, declaring Nicolas Maduro is the only president of Venezuela. Known to many in the country simply as Delsi, Rodriguez has been an influential and reliable regime enforcer for nearly two decades. She began in the government of Hugo Chavez, faithfully implementing the tenets of Chavismo, the nationalist populist movement that brought the Venezuelan economy to its knees. When Chavez died in 2013, she remained an assertive voice within President Maduro's government. Uncompromising in her rhetoric, she vilified the Venezuelan opposition and frequently warned the country about the threat of foreign intervention. Crucially, as energy minister, she also has been a steady hand in funneling Venezuela's dwindling energy revenues to the regime. Seen here last month with state workers, she says, we have something to tell Mr. Trump. Venezuela doesn't owe the U.S. anything. And yet, Rodriguez has for many years been sanctioned by Canada, the EU and the United States. CNN attempted to question her in 2016 after a CNN investigation uncovered a scheme to illegally sell Venezuelan passports out of the country's embassy in Iraq. Rodriguez, then the foreign minister, refused to comment to CNN on every occasion. In keeping with her political pedigree, Rodriguez has a less than subtle message for the Trump administration as she demanded Maduro's release. Her involvement in any future transition in Venezuela will be challenging. Paula Newton, CNN.

[00:02:23] Speaker 3: Joining me now from Oxfordshire is Vanessa Neumann, a Venezuelan-American diplomat, business owner, author and political theorist. Vanessa, great to see you again. It's been a while since you and I have spoken. I know it's been a moment of celebration for many Venezuelans in and outside of the country and also a moment of deep anxiety from the Venezuelans. I've been speaking to inside the country. Just give us a sense of what you're feeling first and what the mood is from what you gather inside the country.

[00:02:56] Speaker 4: Indeed, and it's such a pleasure to be with you again. I've missed you. So the mood in Venezuela is one of concern right now and confusion more than anything. So there are several things. One, everybody is delighted by the, most people are delighted by the photograph of Maduro, you know, handcuffed and with the blindfolds and the earmuffs on the Iwo Jima, heading back to the United States. It reminded me of the capture of Abimael Guzman, who later The Shining Path, was put in a cage. It made him human. It took away the terror and all this fear that Venezuelans have had with these 18,000 political prisoners and extrajudicial killings and tortures. He seemed like a superhuman who could never be captured. And now we know he is human. He can be captured. People within the Maduro enclave can be captured and we can one day have democracy again. So that's hope. That's one sentiment. On the other sentiment, there is great concern about the fact that there's Rodríguez, who is not a nice woman, but is very, very intelligent. She's multilingual, fluent in English and French, and the chief negotiator, I have seen it firsthand. I haven't been fed this by the U.S. government or the Venezuelan opposition. I have been present during phone calls where people were negotiating with her to give Maduro money or to keep Maduro in power. So I am aware of that. And she will give a little dance to the Trump team who think that she will be their puppet. But she's nobody's puppet. However, that's one thing. I think they will get tired of being danced around by her, Rubio and Hegseth. And on the other hand, she faces a huge challenge because she's not in the military, but Diosdado Cabello and Padrino López, who's the two military, one's the head of the military and the other one is a military commander who's head of the party, are very, very bad guys. They will want to command whatever's left of military morale. They will want to command whatever's left of military morale to sideline her. So she may well be stabbed in the back by her own party. So many good points that you made. And then we just have Diosdado Cabello and Padrino López, who were really not much better than Maduro.

[00:05:25] Speaker 3: Yeah, look, so many good points you made. Let me start. First of all, we'll talk about Diosdado, the interior and defense minister, in just a moment. But let me get your thoughts first off on Delcy Rodriguez. She's now the president, well, VP, obviously, but she's been, you've seen the Supreme Court. She's now been handed over the reins, of course, of the country. We've had President Trump saying that she will do what we ask of her, almost painting a picture, Vanessa, of her being a slightly more pragmatic. What is your sense? Because what I heard from you yesterday is, you know, we will never be a colony. We want Maduro back. Is this just lip service, or do you think that Chavismo is not dead?

[00:06:12] Speaker 4: I think Chavismo is not dead. I think they're two different things, right? So there are, Chavismo, there are a few hardcore ideologues who've always been there, always will be there, right, who really believe in Chavismo. And don't forget, this is a country like Cuba. I know you know this extremely well, where there's a whole lot of propaganda. People within Venezuela, unless you have a smartphone, really don't have a lot of access to reality. They get fed these lines. Second of all, I think she, you know, they have to keep up this line for their own survival. On the other hand, there is the aspect of their own survival, right? They are all facing drug charges. Delce Rodriguez has done, yeah, I think it was, was it the New York Times, has done a PR job, yeah, where she said, Delce the moderate. And everybody in Venezuela was like, Delce's not a moderate. She has been, remember what I said at the beginning, she's a negotiator and a PR person, and she's been handling her own PR, clearly for her to assume this position for months, and positions herself as a moderate. She can't be too much of a moderate. It's the typical thing we've seen, you and I have seen in transitions in other countries. If she tries to be a moderate and go on bended knee to the Trump team, her own team will stab her in the back. And then we'll have to have a second wave of attacks on Venezuela, or the Trump team will stage a second wave, as they discussed last night. She's not going to go on bended knee. They will not make Venezuela a colony. And I think that this is going to be some very complicated days. Venezuelans cannot go out into the street to celebrate, because A, they're confused, they don't know what comes next, and B, anybody who says, yay, they got Maduro, will be immediately captured and tortured.

[00:08:01] Speaker 3: Vanessa, it's so good to have you on the show. Thank you so much. Hopefully, we'll stay in touch, and hopefully there's some good news for Venezuelan Venezuelans. Thank you. Thanks, Vanessa.