Verified videos shed light on Iran protest crackdown (Full Transcript)

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: We start this hour of the programme focusing again on Iran and new footage that's emerging of the unprecedented crackdown on protests earlier this month. The internet blackout is now patchy after weeks where a total shutdown made it incredibly difficult to establish what was going on. Well each new glimpse gives us an idea of the horror and also the scale of what has happened. The US-based human rights group says it has confirmed the killing of nearly 6,000 people since the unrest began and it's investigating another 17,000 reported deaths. Meanwhile a US aircraft carrier has arrived in the region, raising the possibility that President Trump may follow through on his threat of military action against the Iranian regime. More on that in a moment. First though let's look in more detail about what is emerging from Iran. Merlin Thomas from BBC Verify was telling me more about the video footage she's been seeing.

[00:00:59] Speaker 2: These are videos that have recently emerged online and we've been able to verify these and they give us an idea of what's happening inside the country. So for example we've seen protesters evading Iran's heavy surveillance infrastructure by disabling CCTV cameras. So you can see someone climbing up onto the post, disabling that camera, damaging it and you can see crowds cheering on below and cheering as that camera is damaged. Elsewhere we've also seen other protests going on inside the capital where we've seen hundreds of people protesting on a highway in West Tehran and then we can also hear multiple rounds of gunfire in the background and people beginning to scream. And in other video we've also verified from a different city of Mashhad, we verified footage of snipers stationed on top of a roof in broad daylight with, as you can see there, a rifle lent against a wall and one man speaking on the phone while the other is smoking. But these are you know glimpses of what is happening inside Iran. But it's worth saying that although these only recently emerged, these videos are believed to have been filmed on the 8th and 9th of January. So those are some of the deadliest nights for protesters so far inside Iran.

[00:02:10] Speaker 1: And as the blackout becomes more patchy, more accounts, not just videos come out, but there have been accounts from fathers who've gone to hospitals, been told that their son is injured, come back in the morning, go back in the morning and they've been shot, executed. There are reports and accounts also of doctors now being arrested for treating people. So all of those stories are emerging. What about any sort of figure around the death toll? I mentioned something in the headlines but again really difficult to establish.

[00:02:41] Speaker 2: Really difficult to establish that, but we have again verified footage from inside a mortuary in the capital Tehran in a hospital and we've seen piles of bodies on top of each other, the floor soaked in blood where bodies have been dragged. Obviously we're not showing you those videos because they're too graphic, but we've counted at least 31 bodies in just one video in one room in one mortuary in a hospital. But it gives us an idea of the scale of Iran's deadly crackdown on protesters.

[00:03:12] Speaker 1: Well that was Merlin Thomas from BBC Verify. Shashank Joshi is Defence Editor at The Economist. He gave me his analysis on the possibility of a US military strike with that carrier group now in place in the region. He also gave me his assessment of how likely Iran was to retaliate.

[00:03:29] Speaker 3: Well I think there's two things to bear in mind here. First of all is the American ability to defend against it and of course that's grown. I've been looking today at satellite images of Al Udeid Air Base in Qatar, which is where America's Central Command has its forward HQ. That was the site struck by Iran in retaliation last year, although it was a very limited and almost a telegraphed retaliation. Al Udeid, the pictures now show it has many more air defence batteries on that site. So America's capacity to absorb retaliation is greater. But what I would also add is that we are likely to see a much bigger Iranian response than we did last time. That was a strike against Iran's nuclear programme. There was a sort of relative restraint in Iran's reply. This time round, if the regime feels that the political survival of the regime is at stake, if Ayatollah Khamenei's life is at stake, you may see a much more aggressive response. And don't forget, if they're going after Gulf countries, not just Israel, they have many more missiles of that relatively shorter range that can reach countries like the UAE or Saudi Arabia or others relative to reaching Israel. And I think that's one reason you see Gulf Arab states saying we don't want our airspace used, we don't want to be part of anything that's happening here.

[00:04:47] Speaker 1: Shashank Joshi talking to me a little earlier. Let's speak live to Mahmood Amiri Magadan, who's from the Iran Human Rights Organisation. He joins me live from Oslo. Thank you so much for being here on the programme. You, throughout the last few weeks, have been keeping a really close eye on what is happening, the video that's emerging and, of course, the death toll. What is your current assessment?

[00:05:14] Speaker 4: Yes. You see, as you say, you know, we have never seen something like this before. Iran Human Rights has been working to document violence inside Iran, death penalty, protest crackdowns. We have never seen something like this. All the information that we receive, witness testimonies, all the evidence indicates that we have been facing a mass killing of unprecedented scale against the protesters, the two nights, Thursday and Friday, to some extent on Saturday. Basically, what we see is that it has been widespread, all the corners of the country, even the smallest town, if there has been a protest there, there have been reports of killings. And it has been systematic. They have been using military-grade weapons and with the intention of killing. We have had several witness testimonies saying, talking about wounded protesters being shot to make sure that they are dead.

[00:06:28] Speaker 1: Yes, we've seen video as well at BBC Verify of snipers on the top of buildings. You mention the wounded because we've also been hearing terrible accounts from people inside hospital who've been wounded and their families saying they are then executed. Are you hearing those stories as well, as well as doctors being arrested for helping and treating people?

[00:06:52] Speaker 4: We have heard those stories as well, about patients or wounded protesters who have been taken out and then their bodies have been given to the families. And of course, a lot of information in the first days came to the hospitals. And I think this is the reason behind the crackdown against the nurses, against doctors. And the families are under tremendous pressure as well. They are being threatened, intimidated, because now that the internet is gradually coming back, they don't want the world to know what actually happened. But we receive reports every day. And I think that this is probably the biggest protest massacre of our time. And I really hope that the international response will be proportional to it.

[00:07:51] Speaker 1: Well, we shall see that part of the equation remains unclear. Let me ask you two or three final thoughts in one go. Do you have any clear idea of what is currently happening on the ground in terms of the way this protest has been snuffed out? Can you also tell me how high do you think the death toll could get to? And do you have any sort of numbers on the amount of people who've been detained?

[00:08:19] Speaker 4: Well, these are all difficult questions. What is happening now is that our assessment is that the Islamic Republic is trying to establish a terror state. You know, now people are in shock, they have been traumatized, but they want to give them such a shock and terror that they don't stand up again. But we hear about arrests. The mass arrests are still going on. We are extremely concerned about death sentences. I'm sure that we will be hearing about executions in the near future. This is one of the main concerns. And of course, I think that I just forgot your second question.

[00:09:10] Speaker 1: Just in terms of quite how high the final death toll might go?

[00:09:17] Speaker 4: You see, the way we work, I don't think we will be able to give an exact number. But based on what we have heard of evidence and testimonies and the picture that we have, I don't think the highest numbers in the media are unrealistic.

[00:09:36] Speaker 1: Well, that is a chilling thought. Also, the point you made right at the start of the interview that what we have seen over the last few weeks is totally unprecedented in terms of scale. Mahmoud Amiri Moghadam, thank you once again for talking to us here on BBC News. We're grateful for your time. Now, the son of a British woman detained with her husband in Iran has said his parents are, quote, terrified. Lindsay and Craig Foreman were taken to custody in January 2025 during a world motorcycling tour, later charged with espionage. The couple from East Sussex are now in Tehran's notorious Evin prison. They deny the allegations. Well, let's speak live to Lindsay Foreman's son, Joe Bennett. Joe, welcome to the programme again. We spoke before this uprising when you were desperately worried back then. What has it been like watching what has been happening over the last few weeks for you?

[00:10:32] Speaker 5: It's heart-wrenching, not, you know, for the people of Iran, firstly. It's a terribly sad time for all of them. But again, it adds a severity of situation for my mum and Craig as well because the situation on the ground is deteriorating and I don't feel that the government response has escalated alongside that deterioration.

[00:10:55] Speaker 1: I'll come to what the UK government is doing and what you want them to do in a moment or two, but tell me about the latest communications you've had because, of course, communications have been difficult. Have you been able to speak to them inside Evin prison? Do you know what the conditions have been like there?

[00:11:14] Speaker 5: We have gratefully been able to continue communication. It's been a bit sporadic and the lines aren't always great, but we have been able pretty much daily to speak to them. They're, you know, the conditions are bad. We know that from phone calls from them, reports from other detainees. This ongoing detention of the Iranian people is putting a big strain on the prison systems. They were already overcrowded, but that's worsened following the protest. Sanitation is poor. Violence has increased, you know, and there's what was already limited in terms of medical access is now even more inaccessible.

[00:11:56] Speaker 1: You talked a bit ago about the British government. I mean, the Iranian regime has been focusing on surviving. Does that, has that made it more difficult for the UK government to make any representations in this, say, last month, this period?

[00:12:14] Speaker 5: If I'm assessing the situation, then yes, I mean, it definitely has added another layer of complexity for sure, because you just don't know how this is going to play out. But I think in those moments of despair is when we as a nation need to show, you know, a sign of strength and solidarity with its citizens and especially ones that are detained abroad. And I just don't feel as though that's being reciprocated at the moment. And as I say, the urgency doesn't correlate to what's actually happening on the ground.

[00:12:48] Speaker 1: This has gone on now for a year. You clearly are frustrated. You want the UK government to change tactics. So what do you think they should actually do?

[00:12:57] Speaker 5: I mean, if you have a look at and compare to other nations and the, I appreciate every case is different, but what is comparable is political will. You know, if we look at France, Germany, for example, they consistently escalated it at senior levels and maintain pressure, you know, and their citizens were released or are in the process of being released. And I just think that we can take, I'm not saying follow it book by book, but you know, we can actually take something from that and ask the UK to match the seriousness. And that's where we're at with it is that, you know, we've got two UK citizens, as you say, that being detained for over a year and still Keir Starmer hasn't even whispered their names, which I just don't feel is the right approach.

[00:13:41] Speaker 1: A final thought then for both the two of them in the prison, you having to live through this day by day. What is that like for you, for them?

[00:13:55] Speaker 5: I mean, it's tough on the good days. The phone calls help massively, but it is a living nightmare. You're constantly concerned for their welfare. And I mean, for me, it's a little bit easier for the family. It's a bit easier. We can go out, we can go and clear our head, we can walk. They are facing the same four walls and the same conditions every single day. And that is the hardest thing about it always is what's happening to them.

[00:14:20] Speaker 1: Joe, we have to leave it there. But Joe Bennett, thanks for taking time to speak to us on BBC News. Thank you.