Alex Honnold Plans a Live Free Solo of Taipei 101 (Full Transcript)

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Knowing that you're gonna die isn't inherently scary. I mean, like, you know that you're gonna die. Like, are you feeling fear about that right now?

[00:00:06] Speaker 2: No, but I'm not on the side of a mountain.

[00:00:09] Speaker 1: When I'm doing a real free solo, like something challenging, I just, I'm focused on what I'm doing. And so I'm not thinking about all the other things. And that's kind of why you think about a lot of those things ahead of time, to sort of do all the processing that you need and then commit to the path that you're on. And then when you climb, you're sort of unencumbered by all those other thoughts, ideally. I mean, sometimes you get up there and you're like, oh my God, what am I doing?

[00:00:31] Speaker 2: Alex Honnold is doing what he loves, but what most would consider an absolute nightmare, climbing tall, daunting mountains without the use of ropes, harnesses, or any protective gear, using just his hands and feet.

[00:00:47] Speaker 1: It's so dangerous.

[00:00:49] Speaker 2: That's Honnold climbing El Capitan's more than 3,000 foot granite wall in Yosemite for the 2018 Oscar-winning documentary, Free Solo.

[00:00:58] Speaker 1: El Cap is the most impressive wall on earth.

[00:01:01] Speaker 2: Honnold, already a world-renowned climber at the time, made history with that climb, becoming the first to free solo El Cap. To date, no one else has done it.

[00:01:14] Speaker 1: It's been a lifelong dream of mine to climb a skyscraper.

[00:01:17] Speaker 2: Honnold's next challenge is something else that's never been done before. He'll attempt to scale one of the tallest skyscrapers in the world, the Taipei 101 Tower in Taiwan, 101 floors and more than 1,600 feet tall. This time, we'll see his climb as it happens. The event will be broadcast live on Netflix. We had questions about all of it, from his preparation to what this meant for climbing, so we sat down with him in Los Angeles in December. How did this come to you? Was it Netflix or was it your idea?

[00:01:57] Speaker 1: Well, so the original idea of climbing a building actually sort of came to some friends of mine like more than a decade ago, and we scouted some buildings at the time and it was a proposed TV thing that kind of fell apart, and so it's been kind of simmering on the back burner. The production company, Plimsoll, that I've worked with on several other projects maybe pitched it to Netflix and then it sort of happened. It will be the biggest urban free solo climb ever.

[00:02:18] Speaker 2: So walk me through the conversations with Netflix because this is obviously a high-stakes production for you. It's what you do. I mean, climbing a building is different, but I would imagine that Netflix had a lot of questions for you.

[00:02:33] Speaker 1: Honestly, I've been incredibly well insulated from all the sort of legal and network side and all that kind of stuff. I mean, it's interesting because I think people look at the whole project and they're like, oh, it seems risky, but you're kind of like, or it seems dangerous or whatever, but I look at it as kind of like, it's not really that much different than what I do in day-to-day life as a professional rock climber. It's like, this is kind of normal. You go and you climb things that are inspiring, you have a good time, you have adventures. And it's interesting because even from a live sports perspective or something like a live TV perspective, I'm like, it's not that different than watching live football or MMA or other things like that. It seems more dramatic because the consequences are so much higher, but the risk, the actual likelihood of having an injury are, I would say, I mean, I would say close to zero, like basically zero. I feel like it's gonna be fine. Whereas other sports, people are gonna get hurt for sure. They're just probably not gonna die. And it's just kind of a weird, it's funny that people see the high consequence and they're like, that seems crazy. But you're kind of like, well, it's very low risk though. Whereas other things that you watch all the time are incredibly high risk. People are getting hurt nonstop. Watch an NFL game, at least two people are gonna get, one person's gonna have a career-ending injury during the game. And you're sort of like, that's a crazy, that's like watching gladiators out fighting for your entertainment. That's kind of crazy.

[00:03:45] Speaker 2: To hear you say it's very low risk, 99.9% of people watching this are thinking, oh my gosh, this is very high risk.

[00:03:56] Speaker 1: Well, it's very high consequence. I mean, I think it's important to differentiate. Like if something happens, I would die. Though actually on this particular building, that's not even totally true because there are balconies every eight floors. Just the geometry of the building, like the shape of the building is such that you actually could fall in tons of places and not actually die, which makes it in some ways safer than a lot of rock climbing objectives. Like in the past when this was almost a TV show and now with the Netflix program, everyone's like, cool, this is gonna be great for TV. And then they're like, but how do we make it safe? And you're like, well, the whole point is that it's fundamentally not safe. I feel that it is very safe, but it's made safe through preparation, through training, through rehearsal. Basically, you just can't make it safe in the way that a network executive wants you to. And they're like, well, you wear a parachute. And you're kind of like, well, that doesn't even help. Like that doesn't, because in the case of this building, you would just hit the building.

[00:04:49] Speaker 2: Is there any sort of safety net for this Netflix production?

[00:04:54] Speaker 1: No, I mean, well, there's preparation, there's training, there's rehearsal, there's the 30 years that I've spent as a professional climber practicing this exact kind of thing. I mean, I would consider that a safety net, but no, if you mean, is there an actual net deployed? No, there isn't.

[00:05:10] Speaker 2: Let's talk about the training. How long have you been training for this particular exercise? Obviously, you've been training for 30 years because it's what you do.

[00:05:19] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so I've been climbing basically full-time for 30 years. So that's a lot. I would say for the specific objective of climbing the building, actually just in the last, I'll probably do basically a two-month concentrated training block, like leading up to it. But actually, I've been kind of thinking of it like a fighter or something. I suspect it's not dissimilar to the way a boxer, somebody prepares for a fight, where it's like they're always fit and they're always practicing. But then before a big fight, they sort of train hard for, you know, think like the Rocky training montage or something. Basically, I'm doing that for the next month and a half. But basically, I'll do like two and a half months of like concentrated training for this specific project. I'll practice on the building a little bit, I think. Some of it, I think, is so they can rehearse the camera positions and things and like do the technical aspects of how to broadcast it well. And then I'll just train in the gym, in the climbing gym. It kind of feels like it's going to be vacation. I'm pretty psyched.

[00:06:08] Speaker 2: How did you settle on this particular building?

[00:06:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, I scouted a few of the tallest buildings in the world over time and looked at tons of photos and kind of like considered things. But actually, we went to Taipei for the first time like more than a decade ago. And basically, as soon as I touched the building, I was like, this is perfect. Because it just hits all the sweet spots. The building, Taipei 101, is singular. It's pretty incredible. It's so striking. It sticks out. It's insane. I mean, that's basically what you look for as a climber, for a climbing objective. You're like, I want it to be striking. I want it to be impressive. I want it to be, you know, inspiring in the right ways. So Taipei 101 was all that. And then it turns out that it's climbable. And it's also climbable in a way, like basically the style of climbing is well-suited to a TV thing like this. Basically, it feels secure. It feels safe. From a distance, it looks insane. Like, it looks impossible. But then when you get right up close to it and you start grabbing the actual metal trim around the windows and things, you're like, oh, actually, this is perfectly suited for a human hand. It's like, it just works.

[00:07:05] Speaker 2: So that was my question. Is there anything for you to grab onto?

[00:07:09] Speaker 1: Well, okay, so there are a couple things. One of the reasons that it's such a cool building is that it's actually much more varied than a lot of other buildings. So you do all kinds of interesting moves. Like, so from a climber perspective, it's interesting and it's fun. I have to fully focus on the task at hand and execute well. You want to do something that's challenging for the right reasons that doesn't feel contrived. It's like beautiful. It's aesthetic. It's everything. It's perfect.

[00:07:31] Speaker 2: Okay, my question. How do you get down when you make it to the top?

[00:07:35] Speaker 1: Freaking take the elevator. It's so cool. Like, isn't that funny?

[00:07:38] Speaker 2: That I could do with you. Let's take the elevator down with you. Now, you said this has been something you've been thinking of for over a decade. What about climbing a building is interesting to you?

[00:07:48] Speaker 1: I don't even see it as climbing a building. I mean, it's just climbing. The thing about climbing buildings, though, is it's very hard to get permission because typically people that climb buildings just do it and then they get arrested and it's the whole thing. And I've basically never been willing to get arrested because especially living in the US, there's so much public land available where it's free and open to go climbing. I'm kind of like, why get arrested if I don't have to? So I've basically never climbed buildings. I grew up climbing in a climbing gym, which is artificial plastic holds. That's not dissimilar to climbing the sides of buildings. I mean, I climbed trees as a kid. I climbed on buildings around my home when I was young. So I mean, climbing has always just been climbing. It's just so hard to get the opportunity to climb a skyscraper. And when you do, you kind of have to say yes. I think some of the challenges in climbing a building are slightly different than the challenges in climbing rock faces because rock faces are incredibly varied. So everything you grab is different, basically. Even if you're climbing a crack, the crack is constantly changing. You know, you think nature is just, it's quite varied. And so you're always doing different movements, but buildings are basically the same. You're doing the same movements over and over. And so you get fatigued in a different way.

[00:08:53] Speaker 2: When you're climbing a mountain and you see how you study it and you obviously climb before, you free solo, but you're finding these ridges and crevices and you're almost studying it like it's choreography.

[00:09:08] Speaker 1: No matter how much you prepare, occasionally things just happen. If you fall, you're gonna die.

[00:09:16] Speaker 2: Are you doing the same exact thing for this Netflix climb?

[00:09:19] Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm doing roughly the same process. I figure out my line. I figure out the holds. I figure out the sequences. I figure out the most efficient ways to move on the building. And I have practiced on the building a little bit already because we did like a scout ahead of time. I found that with a little bit of practice, there was a lot to be learned in terms of economy of motion. Like, it feels like you're doing the same thing over and over, but kind of like a swimming stroke. The more you practice it, the more efficient you get at doing the stroke. And so as I practiced on the building, I was kind of like, you know, it's not quite as hard as I initially thought it was because I'm starting to move better.

[00:09:50] Speaker 2: Is there anything that could be distracting? Like, are there drones that are going to be flying around?

[00:09:54] Speaker 1: I think there's me, a helicopter. I mean, that's always distracting. That's a little bit distracting. But you kind of choose the objective. You know, like I knew that it's a TV. Like, basically you don't get permission to do this unless it's some kind of, I don't wanna call it a spectacle, but some kind of thing. Of course, it is. Like a TV project. It is, right. And so then I'm choosing my objective with the knowledge that I have to be able to perform in front of cameras with people. But I mean, honestly, all the camera people are friends of mine. It's like, it's kind of fun. Like, we're all just hanging out together.

[00:10:21] Speaker 2: I'm sure. How do you stay in a mindset that you're able to stay calm when you have something like a helicopter above your head or cameras or drones flying around?

[00:10:30] Speaker 1: I mean, the whole thing is so over the top, you know? It's like so crazy. And so once you have a helicopter flying around, it feels like you're in Mission Impossible or something. You're like, this is so cool. Or you're like in a James Bond experience or something. And, you know, it's like, we don't get to experience that much in normal life. Like when you have, that's kind of a peak life experience. You're like, oh, and then I got to climb this thing and there was a helicopter and it was insane. And, you know, it's like a whole, I don't know. I mean, it should be pretty fun.

[00:10:54] Speaker 2: And what about the weather? Obviously there is a date for this Netflix special, but what if it's super windy that day?

[00:11:02] Speaker 1: Windy would be fine. Basically no amount of wind would put it off. I don't think. Rain is probably the only thing that could really be a problem. Though the particular aspect of the building that I'm climbing gets first sun and we're supposed to be doing it at sunrise because that coincides with primetime and East Coast. Basically the part of the building we're climbing gets sun immediately. And so it would dry instantly. I mean, metal and sun like dries immediately. So unless it's actively raining, it should be fine.

[00:11:27] Speaker 2: Is there any concern in your mind that this could be perceived by some, maybe in the climbing community, that this is seen as a stunt of sorts?

[00:11:35] Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. I mean, there's already, as soon as it was announced, there was definitely commentary online from people being like, why would you do this? This is stupid. This isn't climbing, which I totally understand. I can see why people would say that. But I'm also like, if they had the opportunity to climb this, they would climb this too because it's so cool. It's so fun. And I haven't been that stressed about it because I kind of think that, and realistically most of those people will probably watch it anyway because they'll be like, this is insane. And then, you know, ideally I'll be climbing this really beautiful building. Any climber who's criticized and that kind of thing, I'm like, well, you go. Like, they would do the same thing. It's so fun. Anyone who's like, why would you do that? You're kind of like, why wouldn't you do that?

[00:12:10] Speaker 2: El Cap was the major top of your bucket list, which you did for Free Solo. Is there still a list of goals that you have as a climber?

[00:12:20] Speaker 1: So I have tons of climbing goals. And I mean, and even just leading up to Soloing the Skyscraper, I have a bunch of climbing goals that I'm kind of working on that help me get fit for that kind of thing. So I've basically always got climbing projects that I'm working on. Whether or not any of them will ever exceed Free Soloing El Cap, I mean, that seems unlikely, probably. But you never know. Because I think about risk and death and mortality, all those kinds of things, far more than the average person. Just because if you're out doing these types of climbs, you can't help but think about these things. I mean, you're obviously faced with your own mortality all the time. But you're choosing to do them anyway because it provides richness and meaning to your life.

[00:12:58] Speaker 2: You mentioned that you now have a wife and kids. You have two small children at home. You're still doing what you're doing, but has that changed any considerations in your mind with what you do?

[00:13:12] Speaker 1: Not really. I mean, one of my friends likes to joke that he didn't want to die in the mountains before he had kids, and he still doesn't want to die in the mountains now that he has kids. And I'm sort of like, oh, that kind of sums up my approach. I'm like, oh, I didn't really want to die in a terrible accident before I had kids. And now I still don't want to die in the mountains.

[00:13:26] Speaker 2: And what about your wife? Because we were able to see in Free Solo, that was the beginning of your relationship. And she was very candid on camera with her concerns that I think many people who watch could understand. What if something happens? So how does she feel now that you are married and you do have kids, and this is still what you do?

[00:13:49] Speaker 1: I think it's important to differentiate between the experience in Free Solo versus, you know, the experience in Free Solo. With Free Solo and El Cap, that had been a life dream of mine for, I don't know, six or eight years before I met her even. And so I was sort of already deeply along this path of achieving something that meant a ton to me. And then I met this woman who eventually became my wife, who's, you know, incredible. But we had just started dating. I'm kind of like, well, you know, I have this life dream balanced against this really great woman that I'm dating. But you're kind of like, ah, you know, relationships versus a life dream. You're like, you know, whereas now, now the ratio is kind of the opposite where, you know, we've been together for 10 years, and we've been together for a year, and we've been together for a year and a half. And we've been together for 10 years. We've been married for five. We have kids. Now, obviously, her opinion matters way more. The life that we're building together matters way more balanced against climbing goals. And especially climbing a building like this, I'm like, super fun. But it's just not like, it's not gonna be the one climb that I define myself by, I don't think. Unless I fall off.

[00:14:41] Speaker 2: Let's hope that does not happen, Alex. I like how you're laughing about it, though.

[00:14:46] Speaker 1: I, you know, well, you just can't help but crack some jokes.

[00:14:49] Speaker 2: Of course.

[00:14:50] Speaker 1: I'm like, you aren't gonna use that anyway.

[00:14:52] Speaker 2: No, I think we are gonna use that, actually. Yeah, no.

[00:14:55] Speaker 1: As a dad with kids and a family in like a much more complicated life situation than I used to, I mean, I used to live alone in my van. You know, now it's like a lot more happening. I'm still climbing five days a week. I'm kind of like, you know, this is really all I've ever wanted. Like, this is great.

[00:15:08] Speaker 2: I have seen on your social media that your kids seem to be quite outdoorsy. Do they love what dad does?

[00:15:15] Speaker 1: I don't think they even know what dad does. I don't think they know what climbing is, really. I mean, like when we're bouldering, you know, kind of climbing small rocks, they'll play in the forest and they'll play around, but I don't think climbing means anything to them yet. We'll see. We'll see if they're into it. But they're certainly gonna be outdoorsy because we as a family spend so much time outdoors.

[00:15:33] Speaker 2: Right. What would you think if when your kids grow up, they say that they wanna do what you do? Do you think as a parent that you would say, oh my gosh, that's really dangerous?

[00:15:43] Speaker 1: No, no, I don't think so. I mean, honestly, if my daughter was like, I want a free solo, I'd be like, okay, well, if you spend 10 to 20 years building up to it, building skills, practicing, you start small, you expand as you go, I'm kind of like, that's fine. You know, just do it carefully, do it well, don't botch. I mean, I'd much prefer my daughter do something like that than like get into partying. I mean, this is the whole thing around risk-taking is people are like, oh, free soloing is so extreme. But I'm like, how many people go out and party like every Friday and Saturday night and then drive home like slightly buzzed and they're like, it's fine, this is normal. And you're kind of like, well, yeah, it might be routine. Like a lot of people do that, but you're obviously taking risks that you're not exactly choosing for yourself. You're kind of like, you're slightly incapacitated. There's a lot of like very mainstream, normal risk-taking behavior that people engage in that they're not really choosing. And I'm kind of like the thing with all the climbing and this outdoor stuff is that you're choosing the risks that you're taking because they add value to your life.

[00:16:41] Speaker 2: Is there a point where you say enough is enough? I don't want to keep putting myself in these situations.

[00:16:49] Speaker 1: Yeah, there might be a point where I don't want to do extreme climbs anymore. I'll never give up free soloing because free soloing, like easy soloing is very easy. You know what I mean? I might give up sort of extreme, like hardcore free soloing, but easy soloing means like scrambling up ridge lines and like climbing easy climbing routes. Like I'll be doing that, you know, into my eighties. At some point I'll be tired of training all the time and watching my diet and all that kind of stuff. I'll just be like, you know, I'm just climbing for fun.

[00:17:16] Speaker 2: Did you ever think that you would be able to really touch the world in the way that you are just through climbing?

[00:17:23] Speaker 1: No, I mean, short answer, like, yeah, no, I never expected any of that. But honestly, I still don't even really believe that I am touching, I'm just doing me and just let all the other stuff play out. I've never done like a live TV thing like this. And in some ways it's actually way more mellow than most of the film projects that I've worked on because as soon as I do the climb, I'm done. I don't have to shoot more. I don't have to like make a documentary. We don't have to go and shoot, you know, closeups and all kinds of things. It's like, basically I'm just going to go and do the climb and then I go home and I'm completely done.

[00:17:53] Speaker 2: But I think what everyone can relate to when they watch you is it's chasing after your dreams and your goals.

[00:18:00] Speaker 1: Hopefully they can see the practice, the preparation, the training, and just kind of like, oh, this looks crazy. It looks insane. But you know, if you spend your life practicing this particular craft and you practice enough, eventually it's not that hard.