How DISC Profiles Improve Leadership and Teamwork (Full Transcript)

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Chad.

[00:00:02] Speaker 2: And I'm Stephanie. Welcome to the Lawyer's Podcast, one of the ways we help lawyers build healthier firms, better businesses, and more sustainable lives.

[00:00:11] Speaker 1: And today, Zach talks with Zena, one of our business transformation consultants.

[00:00:17] Speaker 2: Yeah, they're going to talk about how to leverage DIS profiles, which is a tool that we use here internally for our team and also with our clients. Lab members get their DIS results when they join lab. And I think, Chad, you'd agree that it's usually pretty eye-opening when they kind of see their results.

[00:00:35] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's eye-opening when they see the results. And then also eye-opening when they're reminded of their results. I'd had a lab star I was talking with before we went away for our 4th of July break. And she was having some things that she was dealing with with her team. And I said, well, I know that you and your team have taken DIS. Have you looked at the DIS profiles? How are you guys communicating? You know, remember, everybody communicates differently. And for her, that was an eye-opener because she said to me, I forgot all about DIS. She's like, so thank you so much for bringing that up. And that was her takeaway from that call was she was going to go back to her DIS profiles for her and her team because they had all done it and work on their communication. Everybody has a different style.

[00:01:24] Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's good to remember that you have this tool at your disposal if you've used it, if you've taken it, because it is something that when you read it, usually people are like, oh, yeah, that makes so much sense. And then like you said, they sometimes forget about it, put it in the drawer and kind of, you know, don't use it. But we want to encourage people if you've done it and if you use it, really use it as an active tool. I know we just did some leadership training. One of the things we talked about was DIS as leaders. And you know, I'm sure Zaina gets into this, but one of the examples, you know, for people who are high I, they really love people and sometimes they want to avoid conflict. Well, you could imagine how that might show up as a leader. Those people might be more reluctant to want to engage in some of those harder conversations, right? So knowing that about yourself or knowing that about other people, it's just a, again, it's just a tool that you can use and maybe give you some steps or some ways to like how you might show up differently for yourself and for your team.

[00:02:25] Speaker 1: Yeah. And that's a good point. And I think we think about why do people forget about it? Because we take in so much information that it all just, I heard this great, great quote over the weekend and it was a river doesn't become more powerful by putting more water in it. It gets more powerful through focus, right? Think about a water hose, right? A spigot, right? Versus dumping a cup of water on something and the difference in the power is the focus. And I think when we're always taking in more and more information, and that's how I took that quote was we're always taking in all this information. We don't really focus any of it in a direction. And it reminded me of that.

[00:03:01] Speaker 2: Yeah. I, I really love that because I feel that sometimes too, like with just reading, like I read a lot of business books and to your point, it's like, here's another framework. Here's another tool. Here's another thing I can use. And instead of just kind of sometimes going back to the ones that we know that do work and like, how do we actually make sure we're using them every day? Like we do with discs. Now I've kind of taken to start rereading some, some business books because I'm like, oh, I just need to go back and remember what it said and put that into action. So that quote's hitting me. I'm, I'm liking that.

[00:03:32] Speaker 1: Yeah. It hit me too. I was like, man, that's so true. And I'm guilty of that.

[00:03:35] Speaker 2: Yeah. For, for sure. Same. Well with that, why don't we check out Zach's conversation with Zaina and learn more about how you can get started using the disc tool. But then if you've used it before, maybe this is a good reminder of, of what kind of insights it might give you to your communication style or to those on your team so that you can focus, like Chad said, and use it.

[00:04:10] Speaker 3: Hi, I am Zaina Beydoun, business transformation consultant at Affinity Consulting. So in addition to the business transformation and strategic work that I do, one of my great passions is leadership development and coaching with our clients. And disc is something I use pretty often to help leaders and their teams begin the self-awareness journey and becoming a bit more aware of one another. And usually that has the wonderful effect of improving communication on a team, helping people see each other differently, or maybe even for the first time. And yeah, so that's, that's a little bit about me and my passion for disc.

[00:05:09] Speaker 4: I like it. And we'll get into what disc is here in a second in case people don't know. But that kind of fits into the overall idea of, you know, communication being a major part of leadership development and business transformation and all that. So Zaina, I really appreciate you being here with me. You and I have been able to chat a good bit because we're all on the same team in Affinity. Well, so the first thing that I want to start with that I think is the obvious question is what is disc? What do you mean by that? If I'm not a person that like, obviously, D-I-S-C, what are we talking about?

[00:05:49] Speaker 3: I guess in the most simple way that I can explain, disc is an assessment, a tool that helps you understand yourself better. And when you take the assessment as part of a team, it also is going to help you understand your teammates a little bit better. It is not a personality test. It is not the entirety, you know, of who you are as a person. Of course, we are multifaceted. We have so many different layers to us, but disc focuses on observable behavior. So it's, in essence, going to tell you a little bit about your preferences for how to communicate, how you make decisions, how you approach work, and your preferences for interacting with others. And yes, they've boiled it down to four styles, if you will.

[00:06:46] Speaker 4: So we're talking, like, this is kind of, if people have heard of Myers-Briggs or something like that, that's the type of thing that we're talking about, but we're not talking necessarily about the depth of something like the Enneagram.

[00:07:01] Speaker 3: No, definitely not to that depth, and probably not even as deep as a Myers-Briggs type of assessment. This is really focused on behavior, preferences in how you communicate, how you show up. It's sort of that instinctual way that you react, respond, communicate what you do without much thought or effort. Kind of that, like, instinct.

[00:07:31] Speaker 4: And to be clear, I've taken the disc assessment, I was telling my wife, I was like, I'm gonna interview Zaina about the disc assessment. And to be upfront about this for our listeners, I'm kind of a skeptic of personality tests. So we'll get into that, and my wife was like, well, for a skeptic, you've taken a lot of personality tests. I've taken the Enneagram, I've taken the Myers-Briggs, I've taken the Strength Finder, I've taken disc, I've taken all of these things. But they're all different. They're all a little bit different. So let's talk about, disc has these four categories, as one can imagine, and they're separated into D, I, S, and C, right? So what are we talking about there? And they're, like you said, they're kind of natural or knee-jerk communication styles?

[00:08:28] Speaker 3: Yeah, sort of your default behavioral comfort zone, when you haven't had a chance to really overthink what you're about to say or what you're about to do, kind of that instinct, when a certain circumstance or situation arises. But what we're talking about with disc, and you mentioned the D, the I, the S, and the C, so we're all a blend of all four, but D, which we like to refer to as dominance, so it's how do I address problems and challenges? Works that are really high-scoring in D tend to be a bit more assertive, more aggressive, and really push towards the finish line, right?

[00:09:12] Speaker 4: Oh, that's not me.

[00:09:13] Speaker 3: And then your lower Ds are gonna be quite the opposite, right? They're more reflective, they take a little more time before acting. And then the I, which I'm a pretty high I, which probably is gonna be apparent to you and some of our listeners today. So I refers to influence. So how do I interact and influence the people around me? High I's are all about people, all about relationships, they trust rather quickly. All about connection, sort of that human connection is really important to them. And then of course, the lower I's are gonna be a bit more reserved, it's gonna take a little bit more time for them to warm up and trust folks.

[00:09:54] Speaker 4: What do you mean by high and lower on that? If people, and I'm sorry, because I've taken this, I'm thinking of this as the disc wheel. And so what do you mean by higher and lower in the D or I?

[00:10:08] Speaker 3: Yeah, so scores. So when you take the disc assessment, you basically end up with a score in D, I, S, and C. Okay. So those scores taken together, basically you're a customized blend of all four styles. So there's usually gonna be one or two styles where you score rather high. So that style is probably gonna be the most noticeable and something that the people around you can point to and be like, oh yeah, oh yeah. I definitely see that in D. Okay.

[00:10:45] Speaker 4: Okay. So I wouldn't necessarily even, I've heard people refer to themselves as like, I'm a high D. And so people wouldn't necessarily refer to themselves as a low blank. It's just, you kind of don't score on that. You would actually be the other thing in a way.

[00:11:02] Speaker 3: You'd be the other thing. And the cool thing about disc, Zach, is even your low scores figure pretty prominently in your style and in your behavior, because I'm a really high I, and I'm a really low C, right? And I know we haven't gotten to C yet, but that low C also shows up in my behavior and in my style.

[00:11:25] Speaker 4: Okay.

[00:11:27] Speaker 3: So high and low, high and low is basically what we're talking about here. And so when I teach disc and when I do the workshops, I always tell folks, think of the midline kind of 50 as average height of a person. You're standing at an airport, just kind of people watching. If somebody that's seven feet tall walks by, you're gonna notice that person. Okay. And if someone who is four feet tall walks by, you're probably gonna notice that person. Same goes with your high and low scores with disc. The really high scores, noticeable. It's gonna really show up in your behavior, and then of course, the really low scores as well will show up. And I know we didn't get into S and C yet, but the way that I like folks to understand disc is a lot of times with the teams that I work with, especially in law firms, they've never done anything at all, you know, in terms of a self-awareness assessment or any kind of test. So disc ends up being a pretty non-intimidating first step in that journey to understanding, you know, yourself. And I think when you understand yourself, it turns on the awareness lamp, if you will, and you start to sort of think, well, hey, if I have a style and I have a certain way of sort of showing up, other people might too. And you end up really starting to sort of understand behavior as opposed to judging it.

[00:13:14] Speaker 4: Okay.

[00:13:14] Speaker 3: And that's honestly what I see in firms. So the minute that I understand that, hey, Z, you've got this sort of eye instinct in terms of how I show up, and that's great, so now I have some awareness of me showing up as an eye, and then I have a choice. Because at some point I have to ask myself, is me showing up instinctually as my usual high-eye self what this person, situation, or circumstance needs? And that may or may not be the ideal way for me to show up or the best way for me to show up. So disc is not some sort of like, hey, this is who I am, everybody just needs to sort of accept it. Get used to it. I'm just gonna be able to show up as my high-eye now that you guys all know this is who I am. It's actually quite the opposite. I think disc is an invitation to grow and maybe build some capacities and cultivate some sort of new ways of responding and showing up in situations that aren't your instinct.

[00:14:33] Speaker 4: And I know we haven't gotten to S and C again, but at the end of the day, yeah, we're not necessarily here to tell you what the D, I, S, and C are, because like I said at the beginning of this, I'm kind of a personality test skeptic. I've told people I think of them as horoscopes for business. And what I mean by that, I don't mean that necessarily derogatory. The first thing, you can't because it's not, yeah, anyway, I don't mean that derogatory. I mean that if you tell people a broad enough idea of themselves, or if you give them a broad enough concept, they're gonna find themselves in it if they are, quote unquote, a believer. So if somebody were to say, you know what, I believe in disc, I'm gonna go. And then you say, well, hey, you're a high S. They're gonna go, well, here's a list of what high S's are. Oh, I see myself in that. And I feel like people are gonna see themselves in that. And then we pack that Enneagram away and we go, good luck. And so from that perspective, I have always been a skeptic of these types of things because it's like, I've seen it as a way to give people who are blunt and abrupt an excuse to be blunt and abrupt. And that's not what this is really about. Yeah, yeah. It's that this is who I am aspect of it that really kind of, frankly, pisses me off.

[00:16:19] Speaker 3: I agree. And I think at a surface level, that could be where disc begins and ends for an individual or a team. Just, hey, we all kind of know he's a high D over there. She's a high S. Everybody can kind of stay in their box and in their bucket. And we all just sort of adjust to that reality. But the way I teach disc is, okay, so that's your starting point, right? You have some awareness now.

[00:16:50] Speaker 4: We have some knowledge.

[00:16:51] Speaker 3: Your instincts on how you prefer to show up, what's easiest for you in terms of how you respond and react to your environment and people and situations and circumstances. But that's not where I like it to end. I like folks to understand that typically the hardest thing for your style to do is where your growth is. So for instance, I'm a high I, right? And I have a low C. So C are analytical, very detail-oriented folks. They are all about accuracy and getting things right, right? So I'm a low C. By definition, that means I break rules. I'm more pioneering. I'm more just, oh, I don't know. Should we do it that way? I know that's the way we've always done it, but should we keep doing it that way? So my growth is not in doubling down on my high I. My growth is in developing a capacity for slowing down, paying attention to the details, you know, listening, creating space for that, maybe leaning a little bit more into that analytical, detail-oriented capacity that I absolutely have. So my growth is not doubling down on what is easiest and instinctual. It's actually in growing in the ways that are a little harder for me and require me to stretch a little bit more. Because there is going to come a day where I am sitting with a high C, and if I show up as my high I self, that conversation is probably going to go flat. We're not going to connect. We're not going to be able to get done what we need to get done in that interaction as teammates or as colleagues. So I got to adjust and adapt.

[00:18:50] Speaker 4: That's honestly the place where I get past my skepticism. You know, I've had a lot of discussions with our people internally that do our desk reports. For context, I'm also, as you can imagine, I'm high in the I area, which is, you know, contactability, project self-confidence, would rather talk than listen. But where I get past my skepticism is this idea of using knowledge about ourselves and about how we show up to show up better in communicating with other people, as opposed to saying, well, you know, I'd rather talk than listen, so just let me talk.

[00:19:36] Speaker 3: Exactly. You all got to accept that this is who I am, and everybody has to adjust and adapt to me and just accept that in some absolute way. We know that that's not how growth works, and that's not what makes a team work. And I always like to tell people the most empowering thing that any human being can sort of experience is knowing that they had a choice to do the thing, say the thing that they're about to do, right? When we sort of just stay in our sort of default style or pattern and we're sort of lazy about it and we just do very instinctually, very automatically what we like to do, what is effortless, what is very comfortable and lazy, if you will, and then we don't get the results that we want. We don't get that result. And the minute that we stop, pause, and yeah, there's an instinct and something I want to do or say in this situation, but the minute I create that space, even for a millisecond, and I say, okay, is what I'm about to do or say the best thing that I can do or say based on the person, the situation, and the goal? And if I make that choice, it's pretty empowering to say, yeah, you know what? This is a situation, Z, where you can kind of show up in that typically very enthusiastic, you know, really building that connection, really focusing on that relationship. Other times, it's calling for me to do the exact opposite so that that space to make a choice to do or say the next thing I think is really, really empowering.

[00:21:46] Speaker 4: I'm going to say this, like I think that's an understatement in a weird way. You're like, you're really speaking to my religious studies heart, my philosophy heart here because- I was a philosophy major too. Because we're kind of getting into, like, that's free will in a sense. It's free will. Yeah. Like the most empowering thing we can have as a human is a choice and this idea of the choice. And I think that's amazing. And not to kind of like boil that down to something, but like DISC actually measures that in a way, right? Because we have this, like, how you act normally when you can take a beat, when you can take a second, and then how you act under pressure as well. Yeah. Kind of talk to me about that because that helps me with my idea of this being a way to put people into boxes and honestly take away some of that free will.

[00:22:43] Speaker 3: Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, the moment that we sort of understand that we have a default pattern, style, way of showing up behaviorally, of course, observable behavior, stress does a lot to that. So in my usual high I style, you add stress to my environment, I'm probably showing up even more scattered, even maybe coming off a bit more unrealistic. Maybe my optimism is starting to like annoy everyone because I really want everything to work out and it can be a little crazy, you know? And I think there's also an opportunity to practice some self-compassion, I guess, in a sense because if I know that stress, you know, and extreme pressure sort of makes certain buttons get pushed and I help the people around me understand me a little bit more in situations like that, now I can lean into the support that, you know, the people around me probably want to give me that I don't ever create space for and vice versa. Because when I do DISC at law firms that are undoubtedly the most stressful atmospheres that you could probably think of, when you think of stress, it really changes it because it's like, all right, now I'm looking over there at Susie, I know a little bit more about her, I know that some of what I'm seeing and experiencing is her way of sort of like managing and dealing with that stress, which is not always ideal. So instead of judging, instead of taking any of that personally, instead of coming into work tomorrow and thinking, oh, she is this, you know, I've just labeled her and I've judged her and I'm basically attributing a personality trait to her now, I instead say, hey, you know, we're human beings, we all, you know, undergo stress and pressure and each of us deals with it a little bit differently. We almost give each other space to be human when we understand that because I do it, they're doing it, you know, and the way that I would want someone to create space for me and sort of accept me, I do the same, so.

[00:25:19] Speaker 4: You know, the create space and accept me thing, I think is, again, this is where I became less of a skeptic because we use disc inside, you know, internally and I'm a high I, again, and one of the, or some of the descriptors of quote unquote blind spots or places for growth or as my wife likes to say, opportunities for me are, you know, may struggle with follow through on details or can be overly optimistic about timelines or feasibility and oh my God that like nails me, like I'm, yeah, absolutely. So those are my blind spots, but the beauty of this in my experience when you use this as a team is that yes, you get that from me and I can work on that because again, we have free will, but the thing that you get from that also from my high I is engaging and persuasive, building rapport and energizing teams quickly, comfortable with change and new ideas and it's like, oh, okay. So instead of just saying, well, this person doesn't blank, you know, Zach has, you know, on the report card has trouble with deadlines, sure, but also remembering details. And so it's like, okay, well, but he, he's also really creative and so maybe he can create something that helps him with his deadlines or something like that. You know, like I think that's the big thing is, is how we, yeah, that being able to show up and be more human, giving ourselves this, this ability to be like, okay, well yeah, that is me. I can work on it, but that is me.

[00:27:03] Speaker 3: Of course. Of course. And, and, you know, as your, as your teammate and colleague, now I have an opportunity and a choice to lean in and I know exactly how I can support you now. So that blind spot, that thing that isn't necessarily your strength. So yeah. Okay. You are so immersed in this conversation and you're so present and you're so engaged that, yeah, you know, I may need to send you an email afterwards to give you the bullet points maybe of what we discussed and what we decided is going to happen next. That's okay. You know, it's something that you might need that another, you know, style may, may not need. The moment that we sort of lean into some of those blind spots, those become opportunities for your team to show up for you. So here comes the ways that you all can support me and help me be better while also allowing me to shine my light brightly in the ways that I do. But of course, growth also means, all right, maybe I try to build a little more capacity for listening, you know, paying attention to details. And those really end up being ways that I grow professionally and personally if I can activate some of that in the times that I need it. I don't now have to become, you know, all of a sudden some high C all the time. It's just, hey, here's a situation where I can pull out that tool because I need it. I need it here. And it's going to make me, you know, achieve my goal, be more successful, make sure that this interaction, you know, lands well. And knowing that we have a toolbox is awesome. And I always tell folks, yes, you're going to have like your favorite tool. Maybe it's a hammer or a wrench in that toolbox that you want to pull out as often as possible because you just love it. But it's cool to know that you have other tools in there that you can pull out. And I will tell you, I am usually proudest of myself in moments where I show up a little bit differently and more, you know, more appropriate for the situation or circumstance. And I activate that sort of not always utilized aspect of myself and I allowed it to show up. It's like, wow, look at that. I stepped back and I created space. And I'm usually the one that jumps up and does everything that suggests everything that, you know, that sort of, you know. And there are times where I'm just like social experiment. I am going to not say anything right now. I am going to step back and let others around me step up and not put this like pressure on me all the time to be the one that drives the social connection and engagement in a room because I put that pressure on myself too. And I'm just like, you know, I want to be, I want to be a witness. I want to be like a participant. I want to be amazed, surprised. I want some magic to happen in this environment. So let me turn me off a little bit and let me just kind of step back and just enjoy this and just see what happens, you know. And I think when we step outside a little bit of who we usually are and how we usually show up, that also creates a little bit of magic in our day and in our environments and it's kind of cool, I think.

[00:30:57] Speaker 4: I love that. I love that. And so we've gone from me being a skeptic of this being magic to this being magic.

[00:31:07] Speaker 3: As long as you don't stay, as long as you don't write, like you said, Zach, at the very beginning, as long as it's not this, oh, well you all know who I am now and this is the only thing I'm going to be and this is the only way that I'm going to show up and all of you have to sort of accept it and deal with it, which unfortunately is the leadership style of a lot of folks that I work with. And I think massaging that a bit and helping them see that there is something great waiting for them on the other side, if they can just let go of that mindset and maybe invite themselves to show up a little bit differently. I always say, just don't do anything. If you're in a situation and the conditioning is sort of telling you, do this, say this.

[00:32:02] Speaker 4: Do it, do it, do it.

[00:32:03] Speaker 3: Just don't do it. Just don't do anything. Just kind of stand there and just resist. Resist the urge and the temptation to do that thing. At that moment, you're actually rewiring your brain a bit because you're almost telling that very, you know, it's an addiction. We like to kind of show up a certain way when we've conditioned ourselves in that way. But when you sort of say no, again, you're creating space potentially, even if it's a millisecond and just not doing what you usually do is rewiring. There's some like neuroplasticity happening in that moment. And then you can sort of do it again, do it again. And eventually you're going to choose a different behavior in that situation. And that's how change happens.

[00:32:57] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[00:32:58] Speaker 4: I love that. I love, I love this idea of DISC, of a personality assessment that is a team personality assessment being something that A, can kind of enhance free will and B, something that can promote growth and internal growth for ourselves and our team. So I think that's a fantastic switch of how to look at it. So I appreciate that Zaina.

[00:33:21] Speaker 3: Oh, I, I, you know, I love talking about this stuff and I'm really glad that we started with DISC being potentially a box that folks might feel stuck in. And like you said, you know, almost overgeneralizing, you know, who we are. We're so much more complex, right, than an assessment could ever capture and really treating it as starting point. But now my job is to grow almost in the opposite of my style.

[00:33:55] Speaker 1: Right.

[00:33:56] Speaker 4: Make myself more complete. There's my growth.

[00:33:58] Speaker 3: It's the opposite. It's the opposite. And that's, I'm telling you, when people are most proud of themselves. So my, my introverts that are more, you know, reserved, that are a bit more careful and cautious, when I see them activate that, you know, sort of engagement, excitement, enthusiasm, kind of let out their personality a little bit more and build relationships and be more expressive, that brings a tear to my eye. Because I'm like, wow, I know, I know the courage that it takes for someone like that to activate something that is so not natural for them that requires a huge amount of effort. And that's when you start saying, wow, you know, it's, it's amazing. And I think all of us have the capacity to lean into all four.

[00:34:53] Speaker 4: I love that. I love that idea that all of us have capacity to lean into all four.

[00:34:57] Speaker 3: Oh yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:58] Speaker 4: I really appreciate you talking to me about disc assessments and really leadership growth and team growth and personal growth here. I think that's really what we're talking about. So I really appreciate your time. If people want to find you, I assume they can find you on LinkedIn and, and places like that.

[00:35:16] Speaker 3: Absolutely. Absolutely. So LinkedIn, and then of course, Affinity Consulting is on LinkedIn. We do a lot of this disc work on an individual level, on a team level. And really the idea is self-awareness that becomes team awareness. And then we have some tools to communicate and collaborate better and not use who we are or who we like to show up as, as an excuse.

[00:35:48] Speaker 4: Love it. Well, once again, Zaina, thank you very much for, for being with me and for talking to me about, about something that I don't always like to talk about.

[00:35:55] Speaker 3: All right. Well, this is, this is great. It's been a great conversation and thank you so much for having me.

[00:35:59] Speaker 4: Absolutely. Absolutely.