New Device Tested in Havana Syndrome Investigation (Full Transcript)

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Well, we're learning that the Pentagon is testing a device that could be behind mysterious ailments that hit American spies, diplomats and troops. The illness first emerged nearly 10 years ago. That's when US diplomats in Havana, Cuba reported vertigo, severe headaches and other signs of trauma. Later cases of so-called Havana syndrome were reported worldwide. Sources say the device was purchased for millions of dollars in an undercumber operation in the last days of the Biden administration. Senior national security reporter Zach Cohen joins us now from Washington. What more are you learning about this, sir?

[00:00:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. Sources telling us that the Pentagon spent millions of dollars to purchase this device as part of an undercover operation conducted jointly with the Department of Homeland Security in the waning days of the Biden administration and that US officials have spent over a year now examining the device, studying it, and still have not definitively concluded whether or not it is linked to those mysterious health incidents. Over a dozen that we know of have been reported. But there is evidence suggesting, new evidence suggesting that it potentially was. And we're learning from our sources that the makeup of this device really is something that investigators have honed in on. They've found that the device produces what's known as pulsed radio waves. That's something US officials and academics have long speculated to be the source, the cause of these symptoms that have been reported by US spies, diplomats and troops around the world and some domestically. We're also learning that while not entirely Russian in origin, the device is comprised of various Russian components, which obviously raises significant concerns and questions about a country that the US considers to be a foreign adversary, potentially having some role in developing this device that is suspected of being used to target US officials around the world. And we're also told too, a key part of this is that the device is relatively small and it can fit into a backpack. And that gets to one of the core questions that has been on the top of mind for US officials is, how can a device that caused so much damage, the damage that's been reported by these victims, but also be portable? It seems this device would check that box as well. So we're going to continue to push the US government, the US intelligence community, the Pentagon and Department of Homeland Security for more clarity on this. You may remember that the CIA, their response to these victims has really shifted over time. Those victims feel largely that the Biden administration and to date the Trump administration has largely dismissed their reported symptoms, their calls for some sort of an answer as to an accountability as to what happened while they were serving their country. And a key concern here as well is if this device does prove to be viable, it could mean that it was potentially proliferated, meaning that there could be several foreign countries that have this capability and could potentially use it against US service members, US diplomats abroad in a way that this device is suspected to have been used.

[00:03:05] Speaker 1: Important to follow up on and to hopefully find out more for those victims. Zach, appreciate it. Thank you.

[00:03:12] Speaker 3: Joining us now is the editor for The Insider, Michael Weiss. And Michael, you've been reporting on Havana syndrome for quite a bit now. What's your reaction to this new reporting?

[00:03:21] Speaker 4: Well, first of all, it's a fantastic piece by CNN, and it sort of conforms to a lot of what we at The Insider alleged two years ago in a collaboration with 60 Minutes. We found evidence suggesting that a unit of Russian military intelligence, the GRU, known as Unit 29155, everybody in the world knows who they are because these are the guys responsible for poisoning Sergei and Yulia Skripal in Salisbury. They attempted a coup in Montenegro. All that they do, Jake, is kinetic operations, right? They kill people and they blow things up. We found evidence that this unit had not only worked on research, scientific research, into directed energy weapons. We have the documents from their inboxes to prove it. But we were able to locate two of their operatives in two places, two different cities, at two different time periods, Tbilisi, Georgia, and Frankfurt, Germany, actually going back to 2014. So this predates Havana, Cuba, in 2016, where two victims whose medical records we also examined alleged that they succumbed to these symptoms. And as you mentioned, there are neurological symptoms, traumatic brain injuries, and in some cases, really physically debilitating ailments. One guy we know is legally blind. He has to walk around with a weighted vest for the rest of his life. I mean, it renders you dysfunctional at its worst. And these two victims identified two of these GRU operatives and said, these people were skulking around outside of our area. In one case, it was a residence in Tbilisi, Georgia, in a suburban community. In the other case, it was Frankfurt, the consulate in Frankfurt, Germany. And they're credible actors. One worked for DOJ and the other worked for a U.S. intelligence agency. So one of the main bulwarks that we've been trying to determine here is, could a device like this exist? And if so, could it be man-portable? And CNN reports that not only has the Pentagon been tinkering with this thing for a year, but it can fit inside of a backpack. And oh, by the way, it has Russian components.

[00:05:15] Speaker 3: Well, that's the thing. Although the device is not entirely made up of Russian components, it does have Russian components. Two years ago, you published your investigation linking Havana syndrome to the use of energy weapons and a Russian military intelligence unit. At the time, now Vice President J.D. Vance, then Senator J.D. Vance, responded, quote, feels like a lot of journalists have lost their minds, unquote. He went on to say something even weirder. Now, your investigation led to U.S. senators urging the Biden administration, bipartisan group of U.S. senators urging the Biden administration to reinvestigate the root cause of Havana syndrome. We should note, then-Senator, now Secretary of State Marco Rubio's signature is on there. I assume that J.D. Vance has called you and apologized?

[00:06:01] Speaker 4: You'll be shocked to discover he has not. No. And it was a very kind of churlish and puerile comment from J.D. Vance. I kind of got the impression he didn't bother to read our investigation. You know, one of the results of that investigation, we were kind of girding our loins for what the pushback from the intelligence community was going to be. And what we discovered is, nobody could knock down what we did what we uncovered, right? Nobody could say this is just patently false. It was an attempt to kind of deflect and say, well, you know, we still don't have any credible evidence, et cetera. But then some interesting things happened. The first was the ICA, the Intelligence Community Assessment, came out. And two agencies, one of them is said to be the NSA. The other is kind of in dispute. They altered their assessment. And they said that there's now a 50-50 chance that such a device could exist. One agency went on to say it may have been used against Americans abroad. The other agency cast some doubt on that. But that was a big move of the needle in terms of evidentiary support for AHI. And then another thing happened, which is the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, which oversees the intelligence community, came out with a report last year saying that it's increasingly likely that some cases of AHI are caused by a foreign adversary.

[00:07:08] Speaker 3: Fascinating stuff. So, again, you're seeing things take place here, yeah. Michael Weiss, great reporting. Thank you so much for joining us. Good to have you back.

[00:07:15] Speaker 5: My next guest is a former CIA officer. He says he's patient zero, the first person taken out of Cuba after suffering symptoms of what later came to be known as Havana syndrome. We are calling him Adam, which is not a real name due to the CIA's demand for secrecy. Thanks so much for joining us today. Appreciate it.

[00:07:36] Speaker 6: Thanks for having me.

[00:07:37] Speaker 5: So first, tell us how you experienced Havana syndrome, as it's known, the symptoms. You said that you blacked out.

[00:07:49] Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, for me, it was a pretty stark and it was definitely a scary moment. I remember texting my brother in real time thinking that I may not make it out of this. You know, there's extreme head pressure, crushing ear pain, and it just ratcheted up over the course of 15, 20 plus minutes. And it led to the point where I started blacking out from it. And that's when I knew it was time to get out of there.

[00:08:14] Speaker 5: Yeah. What is your reaction to hearing of this step in the investigation, the U.S. acquiring a device? They haven't come to any conclusions, but the possibility, at least, that this device may be to explain for the symptoms that you have suffered.

[00:08:32] Speaker 6: Sure. I mean, I think it's exciting. You know, I've spoken to a lot of the folks, the other folks that are injured. And even though I call myself, you know, I've been called patient zero by the press, there are many cases that preceded me, you know, going back to 2014 and earlier. So, you know, there is a longstanding pattern of intelligence officers being struck around the world here. But, you know, we hope this is a step forward in the right direction. I think some of us have concerns that, you know, if this has been in play for well over a year, we certainly have concerns that the IC under the Biden administration put out an ICA in 2025 in January, basically saying, hey, there's nothing here. It's not real. We still don't believe it. All the while, they had a weapon system in hand. So, you know, we certainly want to dig into some of the cover-up aspect of what may have happened in the last administration. But, you know, we hope this bears fruit. We hope this answers some things, and we hope it can lead to some breakthroughs to help us with our health.