Sarwar urges Starmer to resign ahead of Scotland vote (Full Transcript)

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: The Government is one that is too important to be missed. We cannot allow the failures at the heart of Downing Street to mean the failures continue here in Scotland. Because the election in May is not without consequence for the lives of Scots. We have an NHS crisis where too many Scots can't access the treatment they need and when they need it. We have a housing emergency with more than 10,000 Scottish children homeless right now. We have too many young people not feeling safe at school or on our streets or missing out on the opportunities they deserve. We have an SNP Government that is addicted to secrecy and cover-ups with devastating consequences. That's why I have to be honest about failure wherever I see it. The situation in Downing Street is not good enough. There have been too many mistakes. They promised they were going to be different but too much has happened. Have there been good things? Of course there have. Many of them. But no one knows them and no one can hear them because they're being drowned out. That's why it cannot continue. I am proud to have played my part in removing a Tory Government that was doing so much damage to Scotland. And having a Labour Government matters. I am proud of my Scottish Labour MPs who did the hard work, persuaded our fellow Scots, ran a historic and successful campaign and who have spent every day since fighting for Scotland's interests. I'm proud of these Scottish Labour Ministers serving at every level of government, delivering for Scotland. I want them to stay in government because I said right at the start that my first priority and my first loyalty is to my country, Scotland. That's why they must continue to defend and protect Scotland's interests. Keir Starmer is a decent man and it is no secret that I have always got on well with him and he has dedicated his life to public service. I have also dedicated myself to public service and I need to decide what I'm willing to accept and what I'm willing to tolerate. The people of this great country, Scotland, are crying out for competent government, for transparency, for honesty and for delivery. They want to see politics that is open and accountable. They want to see leaders who put the national interest before themselves. That is the standard I will always apply. In three months we have an election that must be about one thing and one thing only, Scotland. That is my duty, that is my priority, that is my loyalty and that is Scotland's choice. Thank you. I'll open up for some questions. I'll take Glen Campbell from the BBC.

[00:03:37] Speaker 2: Anas Alwar, just spell out why you want change and why you think that will end what you call distraction. Wouldn't it just plunge your party and the country into further chaos as a new leader is sought?

[00:03:50] Speaker 1: I think the reality is, Glen, that there are so many achievements of a UK Labour government, so many good things that are happening across our country. But if you ask people, they can't see them and they can't hear them because the leadership on Downing Street has become a huge distraction. I've had to think about my own priority and my own priority, my first loyalty is to Scotland and Scotland needs to fundamentally take the opportunity for change here in Scotland in three months' time.

[00:04:23] Speaker 2: But who do you want to replace Keir Starmer and if that is Scotland in a leadership contest won't that cause months of chaos?

[00:04:27] Speaker 1: Let me be really clear. I am not supporting or backing any alternative or any candidate. This is not about MPs versus MSPs, this is about what is right for Scotland. And it is for the UK Cabinet, it is for Downing Street, it is for the UK Labour Party to decide any process, any timeline and what comes next. Colin McKay from STB.

[00:04:55] Speaker 3: You told me on Thursday you thought that Keir Starmer would still be Prime Minister come the election May. What has changed since Thursday?

[00:05:02] Speaker 1: Well what I said to you Colin was that yes he could but we needed answers. And I think to be honest, the answers and the issues are much broader now. There have been too many incidences where the wrong judgement calls have been made. There have been too many mistakes and that is distracting from the vital work of government and it is also distracting from the big choice that people in Scotland have to make in three months time and that is why I think it needs to change in Downing Street.

[00:05:31] Speaker 3: Have you told the Prime Minister about this statement before making it?

[00:05:35] Speaker 1: Yes, I spoke to the Prime Minister earlier today and I think it is safe to say that he and I disagreed. Connor Gillies from Sky.

[00:05:47] Speaker 4: Anas Starmer, one of your own Scottish Labour MPs is reacting to what you are saying here, calling it idiotic, immature, incoherent and self-defeating. It is playing right into your opponent's hands according to that senior figure. Have you done this to blame the Prime Minister if you failed to become First Minister in May? And second of all, if you don't mind, last year you called Peter Mandelson an old friend when it was public knowledge that he had links with Jeffrey Epstein. How do we take you seriously on cleaning up politics when one of your own Scottish Labour MPs is best friends with a convicted paedophile?

[00:06:23] Speaker 1: Let me first say that the approach of briefings I have always called out and that is why I am not taking the approach of briefing. I am not taking the approach of talking to journalists in private. I am being upfront and honest about my view and my first priority and my first loyalty being to Scotland and that is why I am doing what I believe is best for Scotland. Let me also be clear that Peter Mandelson is not someone or something I want to be associated with. I met him in his capacity as the ambassador to the US because that was the right thing to do in Scotland's interest but should he have been appointed the ambassador, no. Should he be a member of the Labour Party, no. Should he have a seat in the House of Lords, he shouldn't and it is right now that he is investigated by the police. Peter Smith from ITV.

[00:07:19] Speaker 5: Who else did you speak to about delivering this? Who knew that this was coming?

[00:07:24] Speaker 1: Look, I have obviously spoken to those in my own team. I have had many conversations with many figures across the UK Labour family, both in government and out, and I have been really honest with them about my view, the situation we are in, how I believe this is intolerable and that I am going to do what I think is right for my country, Scotland. I could have chose to stay quiet, to keep the head below the parapet and just carry on as if everything was fine for the next three months but my first loyalty and my first priority is to Scotland and Scotland so desperately needs a different kind of government in Scotland. I mean, you think about some of the things I have been speaking about in the last few weeks. We have had the most intolerable cover-up at the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital where lives were lost, families were lied to, staff were gaslit. Do we really want to sacrifice Scotland's NHS to a third decade of the SNP? We have children that are feeling unsafe in the classroom or on the streets because of knife crime or the challenge of mobile phones and social media. Do we want a government that is going to stand up on those issues and fight young people's corner? Do we want to sacrifice another generation to SNP government? No. I am not willing to sacrifice Scotland and Scotland's services and Scotland's towns, cities, villages and islands to a third decade of SNP government. So I am going to do what is right by my country, Scotland.

[00:08:55] Speaker 6: And that was Anas Sarwar, the Scottish leader, becoming the most senior member of the Labour Party to call for the Prime Minister to resign. Let's speak now to our Scotland editor, James Cook. James, a pretty significant moment there with that call for the Prime Minister to resign.

[00:09:11] Speaker 7: Well, it's incredibly significant, not just, as you say, because of the status of Anas Sarwar as a leader of the Labour Party within the United Kingdom, the Scottish Labour leader, but also because of what he set out there. Because the conclusion from his remarks is that he regards Sir Keir Starmer as a loser, as someone who cannot now lead Labour to electoral victory. He has said that if Sir Keir Starmer remains in post in Downing Street, in essence, that that means that they will be sacrificing the opportunity to win the Hollywood elections, the Scottish parliamentary elections in May. And his language about Sir Keir Starmer, who he said at one point he had been very close to, was pretty brutal. He talked about failures in Downing Street. He talked about the need for leaders in this country that put the national interest first. The clear implication, the obvious and very brutal implication being that Sir Keir Starmer is not doing so. The distraction, said Mr Sarwar, needs to end. The big question now is who follows?

[00:10:19] Speaker 6: I think that's a question lots of people will be asking, James. Thank you very much indeed for joining us. Patrick, just to say before I come to you that a Downing Street spokesperson has said Keir Starmer is one of only four Labour leaders ever to have won a general election. He has a clear five-year mandate from the British people to deliver change, and that is what he will do. And we've now had three Cabinet Ministers coming out publicly supporting the Prime Minister, which suggests that he is going to say he's going to carry on.

[00:10:46] Speaker 8: Yes, I suspect when Danny and the rest of the parliamentary Labour Party go and listen to the Prime Minister in the House of Commons later, that will be the message. But is it a message that commands majority support across the Labour Party in Westminster and in the country? I think the question of what comes next is forcing a lot of people to think, perhaps overthink the situation before them. And Ash spoke earlier about factionalism in the Labour Party. But there is one thing most people in the Labour Party, the vast majority of people in the Labour Party agree on, which is that Clause 1 of the Labour Party rulebook says the party exists to contest elections and win power. I think what we've just seen from Anas Sarwar there is an acknowledgement that all the current evidence suggests that Keir Starmer is incapable of fulfilling that part of the Labour Party rulebook. And I think in their heart of hearts, most people in the Cabinet and a lot of Labour MPs would agree. And I think we are approaching the point where that reality is increasingly difficult to ignore.

[00:11:47] Speaker 6: And in terms of, as we said there, what happens next, who would come next? That's the crucial part of this, isn't it? And of course, Andy Burnham, who is regularly seen as the most popular Labour figure, at the moment he wouldn't even be able to contest for the leadership.

[00:12:03] Speaker 8: No, indeed. And it's interesting. I was struck by a line in that speech from Anas Sarwar there where he said, first of all, it's up to the Cabinet to decide what happens. To me, not having spoken to Anas Sarwar, as he said, having kept his counsel over the weekend, that seemed to me like a coded warning to the Cabinet that they have to sort this out amongst themselves. That actually everything Danny said about instability and leadership contests and drama is correct. The cleanest way to do this would be for the Cabinet to agree on who comes next. Or, if we're in the territory of caretaker Prime Ministers, to appoint someone who can steady the ship for a short period and, who knows, signal their change of approach by saying Andy Burnham can contest a parliamentary seat. But it's going to have to involve a level of consensus within the Cabinet on the future direction of the Labour Party that, I have to say, there is a lot of division on that that's been submerged out of loyalty. But if you ask Cabinet Ministers about who should be the Prime Minister and what they should do, you get wildly varying approaches.

[00:13:15] Speaker 6: OK. Danny, what do you make of that?

[00:13:19] Speaker 9: Wow. I mean, something I agree with what Anas said is that the national interest needs to come first. But I don't hear the national interest in the subsequent words that he said. I think he made an excellent point about the record of the SNP government. He talked about a situation in a Scottish hospital, the record in health and education. But my challenge back to Anas gently would be, I don't think any of the public would have listened to that part of his speech about the record of the Scottish government going to the Scottish election. They'd be hearing to his comments about the Prime Minister of England, of the UK. And if he got his way, if there was a leadership contest that ran for months in the run-up to local and national elections in Scotland and Wales, how would that focus minds on the choice of the ballot box? Thank you all so much.

[00:14:09] Speaker 10: Well, we're welcoming viewers in the UK to this news conference with the Labour leader in Scotland, Anas Sarwar, who is calling for Sakir Starmer to stand down as Prime Minister, saying the leadership in Downing Street has to change. There's just one loyalty that matters most to me, and that's to Scotland.

[00:14:25] Speaker 1: Thank you.

[00:14:29] Speaker 10: Well, that was the Labour leader, Anas Sarwar, and he said the leadership in Downing Street has to change. It cannot continue. The situation in Downing Street is not good enough. He said there have been too many mistakes. And now it's very interesting that just as he was speaking, and that was, as one of our political correspondents in Westminster was saying, an explosive moment, this call from the Scottish Labour leader on Sakir Starmer to stand down. We have had a complete rallying round of Cabinet ministers to Sakir Starmer. For example, the Housing Minister, Steve Reid, saying Sakir Starmer has led our party to victory and won a mandate for change. We need to stay on course. Also, Downing Street spokesperson saying Sakir Starmer is one of only four Labour leaders to have ever won a general election, and saying that he has a clear five-year mandate from the British people to deliver change. That is what he will do. That is a Downing Street spokesperson. We have also heard a similar message from David Lammy, the Deputy Prime Minister, throwing his weight behind Sakir Starmer on X, and he's also actually just gone into Downing Street saying, quote, we should let nothing distract us from our mission to change Britain. We support the Prime Minister in doing that. Rachel Reeves, the Chancellor, also adding her support. So lots of support from the Cabinet for Sakir Starmer. A very difficult, potentially pivotal moment for Sakir Starmer. Graham Stewart, our Scotland political correspondent, was listening to that news conference from the Scottish Labour leader. So really, just saying in a nutshell, there has to be a change of leader. Just give us an idea of his thinking and why he's called for that, because as he was saying at the beginning, he says he's a friend of Sakir Starmer, he spoke to him today, and yet he's calling for him to go.

[00:16:28] Speaker 5: Yeah, he very much was a friend of Sakir Starmer, and you got a sense of the warmth that they've enjoyed over the years, but I think this speech has to be very much seen in the context of the Scottish Parliament elections in May. There is literally just weeks to go, and I think he's certainly feeling the pressure. If you look at the opinion polls, a lot of the polls suggesting Labour, not in second place in Scotland, but potentially in third place. Now, of course, it is a risk changing the leader. The whole sort of, you know, this whole sort of cavalcade of leadership contests might not play well ahead of the Scottish elections, but I think he is taking a gamble here, and certainly many within Scottish Labour and many Scottish Labour MPs certainly feel that without Sakir Starmer, their chances might be improved. It was interesting during that speech, it very much was a pitch for the Scottish elections. He talked about the opportunity to get rid of a failing SNP government, an opportunity that cannot be missed. He referred to issues like NHS waiting lists, the housing emergency, and opportunities for young people. And you saw the backdrop there, it didn't mention Labour, it was a saltire with the words Scotland's choice. And as he said himself, he very much sees this upcoming parliamentary contest as one between Anna Sarwar and the current First Minister, John Swinney. This isn't about Scottish Labour versus the SNP, as he sees it, it's about who is going to be the next First Minister of Scotland.

[00:17:58] Speaker 10: And we heard from him saying, he just sounded frustrated, didn't he? He said, they promised, i.e. the Starmer leadership team, they promised they were going to be different, but too much has happened. Have there been good things? Of course there have. But no one can hear them because they're being drowned out. It was a real message of frustration from the Scottish Labour leader.

[00:18:21] Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think Anna Sarwar sees himself as a strong opposition to John Swinney. Remember, the SNP have almost been 20 years in power. And I think Anna Sarwar senses from certainly some of the general public that it's time for a change. But of course, Scottish politics can't be hermetically sealed. What happens at Westminster does have an impact on Scottish politics. And voters will always look to see what is happening at Westminster, as well as considering what is happening in the Scottish political dimension. So I think that's the frustration that Anna Sarwar feels. But it is, of course, a gamble. If Sir Keir Starmer were to step down, we don't know how long a leadership contest would take. Of course, we don't know who the next leader would be. And Anna Sarwar was certainly not wanting to be drawn on that question. So there's a lot of ifs and buts. There's a lot of uncertainty. But this felt very much like a pitch to the Scottish voters, directly to the Scottish voters, ahead of the May 7th elections.

[00:19:22] Speaker 10: A pitch to the Scottish voters, Graham. But was it a surprise, though, that he should come out like this and really just call for Keir Starmer to step down?

[00:19:34] Speaker 5: I think possibly the timing was a surprise to have come so soon. And also a surprise, as you heard him say, about his friendship with Sir Keir Starmer and how close he is to Sir Keir Starmer. So this can't have been an easy decision to make. But I think that if you are facing the situation that Scottish Labour are facing in the polls at the moment, and you're looking to be... Well, the election campaign has already started. It is in full effect here in Scotland. And I think there is an impatience to be getting on with the job and actually talking about Scottish issues rather than Westminster issues. I think Anna Sarwar sees what is happening in London as a complete distraction to the question of Scotland's future government. And he sees the stakes as being quite high. He has been campaigning on issues like the water contamination at the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital here in Glasgow. He certainly feels he's getting some cut through on that topic, but not enough to change the opinion polls. The opinion polls have not gone in Labour's favour in recent weeks. It almost feels like no matter what Anna Sarwar does, it doesn't appear to be having an effect. Now, of course, he will say, well, you know, these are just opinion polls. The election is what counts. And, of course, we saw in the recent by-election in Scotland last year that despite a lot of people writing off Labour's hopes, they came through in the end. But, of course, it's very difficult when you are contesting all the seats in Scotland, as he will be on May 7th.

[00:21:02] Speaker 10: OK, Graeme, thank you very much indeed. Well, as I said, while we were hearing from the Scottish Labour leader, there was a real rallying around of the Cabinet troops behind Keir Starmer. One of those, the Deputy Prime Minister, David Lammy. And he put out, this was him actually arriving in Downing Street. We don't know quite why, maybe just to express his support. But certainly on X, he did express that support. We should let nothing distract us.