Speaker 1: Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

Speaker 2: Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day.

Speaker 3: Good to see you, brother. Yeah, how are you, man? Great, great. It was nice to meet you at F1. And I really loved your episode of Sean Ryan. I fucking love that dude.

Speaker 2: Thanks, man. Yeah, Sean is... He's the man. He's awesome. I love Sean.

Speaker 3: I'm so glad there's guys like him doing this. doing this, that there's more people like him that are like finding new ways to like, you know, media is so wide open now. And it's not, you don't have to get hired by a television station anymore. You can just start your own shit. And Sean's show is fucking great.

Speaker 2: Yeah, he's great. Sean's, I love him as a person.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I love him too. He's great. He's an awesome dude. And I loved you on that show, but God damn, man, that show was crazy. Like your childhood was so nuts, dude. Hearing about you living in a brothel when you were 12 years old. Yeah, me and my brother. Fuck, dude, your whole story was so nuts, man. I was listening to it in the sauna this morning, and I was like, oh my God. So I'm there cooking at 195 degrees, listening to you struggle. I was in there for a half an hour, which I usually do 20 minutes, but I kept going. I'm like, this life is so fucked up. I feel like I shouldn't bail right now. I should keep listening.

Speaker 2: I feel like, but I'm not the only one, you know what I mean? I feel like where I was in the army is full of guys just like that. A hundred percent. Yeah.

Speaker 3: A hundred percent. Yeah. And I think in some, well, fighters as well. You know, a lot of fighters I know, like Sean Strickland, a lot of guys I know had fucked up childhoods. I think it gives you an extra gear. I think when you can get through a childhood like that, you got an extra place that you can go to that other dudes can't go to. And in your line of work, that comes in very handy.

Speaker 2: Yeah. it works like this I never heard it as an extra gear but here's the way I always equated it you know you're gonna get a beating and it's coming at five o'clock you know you know after dinner you they're gonna be hammered and this is another argument and fight and it's a pattern right and you know this as a kid right and what happens is you got to take that beating and then like put your church clothes on we're going to church you know what I mean yeah and the truth this is like I'm um I think my my brother more than me but I think my mom actually had him convinced that we were super bad kids and like you know we were I don't know a couple years ago I was like you know like you ever met an actual bad like four or six or eight year old no it's how they're raised right and then it was kind of like yeah I think it was an eye-opener for him but

Speaker 3: like it was always our fault well that's the thing you can convince kids of almost anything you can convince them that's their fault you can convince them that they're bad kids and then they feel bad for the rest of their fucking life they feel like a piece of shit yeah there's a lot of people out there that didn't do anything wrong they're just raised by shitheads and for their whole life they feel like garbage yeah and they don't know why yeah it's so hard to snap out of that too and it takes something for you to do that makes you feel valuable and worthwhile like you have to kind of like relearn who you are as a person yeah and some people never do yeah and then they you know find meth or heroin or something that takes the edge away yeah they can just exist yeah

Speaker 2: well I'll tell you that was the army for me like the first time I ever felt like like I fit in or I was with people like me right was when I was you know in

Speaker 3: Ranger Battalion yeah I think fighting is the same way a lot of those guys the only time they ever feel normal is when they're in a gym with a bunch of other savages yeah it's like guys who want to do that for a living you know generally something fucking terribly wrong happened when you're young yeah that put this anger this monster inside of you well I tell you the I tell people all time jiu-jitsu is my sanity yeah jiu-jitsu is a meditation man because if you are doing jiu-jitsu you can't be thinking about anything else right so it cleans your mind up you know we were talking about bow hunting yeah I think that's the same thing I think in a different way it's just when you're doing that it's so difficult you can't think about anything else right I love

Speaker 2: when I'm I don't even care if I get or see an elk today the places I go to get these elk right I could just sit there all day anyway I know you know I mean the fact that like one of these majestic beasts is gonna walk 20 yards from me fucking bonus you know I mean like I just you know what I'm saying like and I feel the same about jiu-jitsu you know like I always like in jiu-jitsu when someone does like what you call high-level jiu-jitsu to me as it's happening like couldn't I don't care if you're smashing my fucking face that was amazing are you kidding me like let's take a moment here it's amazing that

Speaker 3: someone can do that yeah you know I remember when I was first starting jiu-jitsu I was like 30 years old and I thought I was a badass I had kickbox I I'd won a bunch of Taekwondo tournaments. I thought I knew how to fight. And I remember one day when I was a white belt, this purple belt just raped me. I mean, he was my size. This was what drove me crazy. He wasn't bigger than me. And he just destroyed me. Just destroyed, just did whatever he wanted. Triangled me, armbarred me, choked me. And I remember walking out of there going, I can't, first of all, what a like shift of like who you are in the world. Knowing that someone can just do that to you. not a bigger guy, like someone your size can just, you're helpless. And then I remember thinking, I gotta get good at this. Like that, having that as a skill, that's like one of the greatest things you could ever have. Like, cause that's what martial arts was supposed to be when we were kids. Like that the smaller person could beat the larger person just with technique. Correct. Until Horace Gracie came along, you never really saw that. The bigger guys always won. Right. And then Horace Gracie, all of a sudden, he's killing people from his back. We're like, what is going on?

Speaker 2: Yeah. This is crazy. He's losing.

Speaker 3: He's not losing. All of a sudden he's like, he's strangling some guy with his legs. We're like, what the fuck is this?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. I agree. I tell you, I met Hoyce like we, you know, in the early days we'd bring Hoyce and Horian was actually the first Gracie I met before Hoyce, right? But we'd bring Hoyce in and like, watching these guys, like, you know, we'd get like 60 guys up on the mat and this is hard to do. And this is a lot of guys because it's Hoyce, you know, and he would run through every dude, every dude. And it was like, not like, not like it was a close match. It was like, whatever dude from the defo stepped in front of him was the 12 year old child against the fucking an adult. You know what I mean? Like he just fucking handled everybody. And I remember one of those times he just fucking, I did something and he cinched down on me like a spider and I couldn't fucking move. And he goes, yes, I did not think of this. This is good move. And I was like, I don't even know what the fuck I'm doing. Like, you know what I mean? I wasn't even a white belt yet. I was just, he was just fucking me up, you know? But I knew like right then and there, I was fucking helpless. Yeah, it's a weird feeling. And like, yo, unacceptable. You know what I mean? Unacceptable, that's the right word. Yeah, right, unacceptable. That's the right word, yeah. You gotta learn this. You gotta know some of it, you know what I mean? And even back then, like, we would all tell Hoyce, You know, because we were more Muay Thai. We would train a lot of Muay Thai, boxing, right, wrestling, a lot of wrestling, you know, before the Jits. And like, we would tell Hoist back then, as soon as you learn to punch, you are super dangerous.

Speaker 3: Which is, I think, where it is now. This episode is brought to you by the Farmer's Dog. Dogs are amazing. They're loyal, they're lovable. Like, just having Marshall around can make my day 10 times better. And I'm sure you love your dog just as much, and you want to do your best to help them live longer, healthier, happier lives. And a healthy life for your dog starts with healthy food, just like it does for us. There's a reason having a balanced diet is so important. So how do you know if your dog's food is as healthy and as safe as it can be? Well, Farmer's Dog gives you that peace of mind by making fresh, real food developed by board-certified nutritionists to provide all the nutrients your dog needs. And their food is human grade, which means it's made to the same quality and safety standards as human food. Very few pet foods are made to this strict standard. And let's be clear, human grade food doesn't mean the food is fancy, just means it's safe and healthy. It's simple, real food from people who care about what goes into your dog's body. The farmer's dog makes it easy to help your dog live a long, healthy life by sending you fresh food that's pre-portioned just for your dog's needs because every dog is different and I'm not just talking about breeds. From their size to their personality to their health, every dog is unique. Plus, precise portions can help keep your dog at an ideal weight, which is one of the proven predictors of a long life. Look, no one, dog or human, should be eating highly processed foods for every meal. It doesn't matter how old your dog is. It's always a great time to start investing in their health and happiness. So try the Farmer's Dog today. You can get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food at thefarmersdog.com slash Rogan. Plus you get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com slash Rogan. Tap the banner or visit this episode's page to learn more. Offer applicable for new customers only. Yeah. Well, I think wrestling is kind of, there's like so many elite wrestlers now that have learned Submissions and that extra skill of being able to throw bodies around is another level I agree as wrestlers can learn jiu-jitsu pretty easy an elite wrestler You take a guy like a bow nickel or a Daniel Cormier teach him jiu-jitsu They're gonna hams out your mind. It's the best example that you're gonna you teach a guy like that submissions He already knows how to ragdoll people so he has this ability to take everybody down and then on top of that he's gonna break your neck like it's like Like that extra, I think wrestling is like the foundation. That's the one thing, because then you can dictate whether the fight goes to the ground or stays up. You know? And then once you learn submissions, which is pretty easy for a wrestler to learn, it's pretty similar. It's the same sport.

Speaker 2: I used to wrestle, and it's like the cradle for the pin versus an armbar, right? In my opinion. Sure.

Speaker 3: Darce chokes, all these different things come from similar positions. But then stand-up, you know? You have to have stand-up today, Because I think, you know, I've been talking about this a lot. I don't think, I think when you have a fight and it's five rounds, say you have a fight, if a guy's mounted on top of a guy at the end of the first round, I think the second round should start with that guy mounted on top of you. I don't think they should start standing up because it doesn't make any sense. Like you didn't earn that stand up. That guy took you down. He got on top of you. He's mounted on you. You're about to get fucked up. And then all of a sudden you have a reprieve from the governor because the round is over And now you're standing up again, and if you're a striker, that's your world, but you didn't earn that position. It's one fight, it's not five fights. It's one fight, so why should you have a beginning of every round where you're standing up?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 3: I agree with that. If I could change the rules, that's the first rule that I would change. I would say, whatever position you were in at the end of the round, that's where you start.

Speaker 2: I completely agree with that, and I always feel like that it just fucks shit up. Yeah. You know what I mean? And then, you know this, doing jujitsu is like Seconds matter and this fight could turn around in seconds, but those seconds can't happen if we stop this early a hundred percent

Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with that. Well, the early days were wild right because there was no time limit

Speaker 2: Hey, that's what I watched the early days is my heyday. Like I could not get enough. I was you know fight dummy for hoist for Sakuraba who else Oh always so okay. I'll tell you a quick story about hoist. He he comes out We're doing jets with him and I'm a new guy. So I'm like, hey, you could share my wall locker, right? And you got a wall locker and you got like your towel because the showers down the hallway, you know what I mean? Like I have my clothes right and then so hoist Put his family pictures and I didn't notice this but they slowly did this him and my team Retagged everything with like my last name and team numbers with hoist, right? So they retagged all my gear as hoist right they the hoist put his kids pictures up over mine right at one day I'm in the I'm in my locker like is this my locker like what the fuck what the fuck is going on? And I'm like whose kids are these like and then hoist is like, you know Yes, you like my kids and I'm like, oh those are your kids like now this cool, right like Years later. I'm in Iraq and I'm like I got to go for like one of these surges in the Fallujah with another squadron and like their ops are major calling me by Name and it's like I've been in Iraq like 30 seconds These guys are calling me by name like what the fuck, you know, and then he was like, we're getting your stuff It's on it's on the helicopter. You need to get on this little bird We're leaving like 20 minutes and literally I got on a little bird They bring my kid over I get my shit on right and they're like, you know, whose shit is a Royce. Is there a Royce? Royce, you know what I mean? And then like my bag is what it's fucking still tagged with hoist his name. That's hilarious

Speaker 3: That's hilarious So you started training martial arts in when you were in the military in the unit? Yeah in the unit So did they have like was it like technical training? Did they teach you? Did you did they have like real instructors or was how does it work?

Speaker 2: Yeah, so in training when you kind of make it to the unit There's a hand-to-hand program a lot of the hand-to-hand program is like Traditionally like you got a cuff people, you know what I mean? Like which is all Japanese wrist locks, which is a foundation for a lot of shit, right? But uh, you know You learn that stuff like how if you have a weapon how to like approach somebody if they grab your weapon what to do so it was all like Weapon focused like more like self-defense But I think back then in my day, right in the 90s, it was still bro. Come at me like this You know what I mean? And you're like why the fuck would I stand like this ever like what the fuck was I doing that got me here? You know what? I mean? Like so it was always some back then there was a lot of hocus-pocus So we kind of had our own Training program and then as my years the training program got better because we started getting hoist We started ground fighting, you know, I think the premise for everything they taught in my day when I was a student Was like, uh, you know weapons retention Japanese wrist lock to get someone cuffed, you know two-man cuffing procedures Searching and then like how to defend yourself if someone grabbed your weapon or if you went to the ground, right?

Speaker 3: Right, which is all stuff you have to know right but there wasn't a lot of like just not one-on-one

Speaker 2: No, no, it's like, you know, you're in the you're in the gym. They roll out the wrestling mat and it's like Okay, come at the guy like with your rifle You know, you know a bunch of fucking white belts basically like out there fucking around

Speaker 3: Does it was it like there was there a system like a training system?

Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a there was a system back then and the system was really I think kind of for things without without really knowing what they did back then. I went through the training, but I don't really know what the hand-to-hand was back then until later when I was in the hand-to-hand program or fighting with guys, you know what I mean? I would say this, back then, I'd say it was wrestling. It was Muay Thai, right? It was a little bit of Japanese wrist locks and some Filipino martial arts.

Speaker 3: Oh, like Kali, Eskimo. Kali, yeah.

Speaker 2: We had guys that would do the sticks. I know a little bit of the sticks. First time I got smacked 37 fuckin' times around the head was another guy, this guy with his sticks. It was like, what the fuck was that? How do these sticks move so fuckin' fast?

Speaker 3: Dudes who are good with that are very impressive.

Speaker 2: Yeah, super impressive. So I think that was really the foundation. And maybe some, I don't know, dirty boxing I would kinda imagine, you know what I mean? Clinching and punching. Yeah, clinching, punching, stuff like that.

Speaker 3: How did the Filipinos develop that stick fighting? Like, where'd that come from? It's weird that one culture's known for their stick fighting.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: Kinda odd, right?

Speaker 2: Yeah, but I love all that, the stick fighting, what do they call it, pantoukin or whatever, the dirty boxing they do, like all very, make your opponent off balance at the same time you can strike. Or if they are trying to strike you, knock them off balance.

Speaker 3: Stuff like that. I've always been so fascinated how different cultures have a completely different approach to fighting like the ties Figured out the best way to fight stand-up. Yeah, kick the shit out of the legs Yeah, fucking kick his leg elbow the fuck out of people in the clinch. Yeah plung knees Yeah, the knees to the body knees to the face. They figured out striking in a way that nobody else had It's weird that they did it. Yeah, and I think it's just because of the competition all the time in the betting Yeah, because like they were fighting so often and they had so much money on the line for fighting that they developed a very Pragmatic way of fight because they were fighting all the time. Yeah as opposed to like karate or any other things I don't think they were really fighting as much

Speaker 2: Well, we don't I mean think about America like prior to Mike Tyson boxing was kind of like Americans if they would have seen like Hicks and Gracie, you know if Hicks and Gracie would have been popular in like the 70s or 60s people have been like Well, that's not civilized fighting. You know what I mean? Like right get your dukes up. This has got to be fair you know what I mean Americans have a Very fair sense of what fighting should be like Americans hate like dirty fighting and but you know All the all Muay Thai and and Kali and all that they that was all seen, you know Those guys would come from Asia fight around the states here if I can kick everyone's ass and people still weren't attracted to it

Speaker 3: Did you ever see there's one fight? That's like one of the most important fights in kickboxing where Rick Rufus who is like the king of American style kickboxing like above the waist Kickboxing fought this Thai guy. I forget how I can't pronounce the guy's name correctly So I don't want to butcher it but this and Rick Rufus was fucking him up in the beginning. He dropped him He had him in real trouble Rick Rufus was really good But this dude just kept chopping at the legs Chopping at the legs and by the end of the fight Rick's in a heap on the ground and his own brother Duke Rufus who? Became a world Muay Thai champion himself later and became one of the best trainers in MMA. This is so this is the fight What happened? Oh That's how his name good luck saying yeah, yeah But oh, this is not this is a different this is like a compilation of a bunch of different people fighting that's not This is it the fight that changed Kickboxing so this this fight. Well, this isn't it. This is a bunch of other shit. Good go into the fight itself It's fucking just go Chuck Norris. I seen Chuck in there was legit Chuck So this is the fight So in the beginning Rick Rufus who's like this above-the-weight kicks. He drops him on the left hand Rick was really fucking good, man He was really good But they just didn't know anything about the leg kicks and after the fight like his brother Duke was like well I don't think there's any skill involved in kicking the legs, and he was saying that look he drops him again So he dropped him two times look like Rick is fucking him up, but this Thai guy Just he's probably had 200 fights. Yeah, he just keeps kicking at the legs and after a while Rick's legs are just dead I mean, the Thai guy's getting lit up. But Rick became an unbelievable leg kicker himself after this. But no one knew. They just didn't know. So as the fight goes on, and this is like a huge challenge match. You see, look, he drops him with this leg kick. After a while, Rick just can't move anymore. And this dude, I don't wanna say-

Speaker 2: He ain't even running away well.

Speaker 3: No, his legs are dead right now. And he's just getting every time this ties kicking him he can barely walk and at the end of the fight He winds up in a heap Because he just doesn't know you know he doesn't know yet, and he's getting dumped to like look at these fucking low kicks Devastating low kicks and at the end of the fight He's just in a heap on the ground Yeah, his kick had no power there, but the thing is like Rick was really fucking good back in the day So when you that that didn't show the end of the fight But at the end of the fight, he just he brutalized him with just low kicks The ties had figured something out that nobody had figured out and it's kind of shocking That this one area of the world like this one small island. Yeah, they figured it out. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. Love it Yeah, I love it too. It's just and then Brazilian jiu-jitsu, right? Yeah. Yeah till you know, Maeda comes to Brazil in like the 1930s or some shit, whatever that whenever that was and then they go the Brazilians like, huh? I think we can fix this. Yeah, and they started like, you know, because Elio was a small guy and Helio is like going Well, what about if we just did it this way? Leverage and just instead of using strength we use technique and changed everything. Yeah change martial arts forever. Yeah

Speaker 2: I love all of it. Yeah, I'll tell you that leg kick is my go-to in Iraq and Afghanistan You know what? I mean? Like I get about this far from you. This is good distance for me You can't grab my weapons, but what I would do is I'd throw the Thai leg kick But I wouldn't aim for the middle of the thigh. I don't care about your pain. I'd hit your knee and either It's gonna break your knee or it's gonna knock you out of your little fucking slippers And then I just stand on your neck

Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's one of the most effective things you could do you take away someone's base Yeah, and you know, it's a crazy thing about MMA is now we're learning that kicking in the calf is actually even more effective Than kicking in the thigh. Yeah, because there's no meat there Slam a shin into that and it all said your foot goes floppy. It doesn't work anymore your legs useless It's crazy and we've figured that out over the last five or six years Which is really nuts like Michael Bisping who was a world champion told me he went his whole career without ever getting kicked in the calf Wow, and that was like, you know, four four or five years ago He was a world champion and when his entire career without getting kicked in the calf nuts it's nuts it's like it's constantly changing and evolving yeah like people find something that works and like oh what about this I love that it's always evolving too well martial arts have evolved more in the last 30 years than they have in the last 30,000 years I agree that's a fact yeah that's a fact and that's kind of shocking you think about how long people have been fighting

Speaker 2: I don't know you know I see this you know I shoot every day I teach people to shoot all over the country all the time right and it's kind of interesting to me that I don't think it works like that you know what I mean like you would you would think people would have been doing this right the whole time but there's like a lot of myth involved and and it gets watered down over time I think a lot of times even in shooting yeah like what are the myths and shooting oh so Fucking many man like do we got the time? Fucking shred this shit the NRA. I go to I speak at the NRA shows like the NRA hires me I speak at all the NRA show this year. I actually got roofied in fucking Dallas at the NRA show. Yeah, no shit Do you know who did it? Uh, so is fucking this is crazy, right? But uh, okay. I have an assistant, right? I don't know She's like 30 blonde girl pretty girl her and her husband or or with me and I'm with like the surefire Representative like yo, sorry. We got you roofied by the way and then like some other guys right and We get done with the show and we just go have a drink or two and we're going into like the hotel restaurant to eat a nice steak dinner, you know what I mean? so We get around to drinks and it was like well old fashions is what it was Well old fashions and my assistants like I sit next to her. She's like, I just can't drink anymore You know what? I mean? Like these are horrible fashions. I just can't I just can't drink these anymore It was like hey, we'll be a dinner in a minute. They got good booze at the good restaurant We'll get anything you want, right? So she's like, okay, so I was like here I'll take it so I held my cup up and then I kind of held my cup up the surefire guy her husband and she kind of fills us all up equally and So so somebody was trying to roofie her her right? So yeah, this is in Dallas, right? So, okay, so We go to dinner. I don't I get this way goo burgers fucking delicious. I'm kind of buzzed. I'm drinking good whiskey You know what? I mean? We're having a good time, right? I love good food, right? So I'm having a great time her husband's at the end of the table and all of a sudden and that this is like within 45 minutes of that drink, which I also didn't know, right? So his head hits the table, boom, and I look at him and I'm like, like, like, is he okay? And then like, hey, you know how like, you know, them blow up pools where you pull down the side and the water just kind of glides over the top? Yeah. His mouth opens and it was just like, whoa, across the table, you know what I mean? And I was like, I pushed it away from the table so it didn't leak on me, and I was like, we gotta go. You know what I mean? It's time to leave, you know what I mean? I'll get the check by the front door or something, you know what I mean? But it's, we definitely, it's time for us to leave. And you weren't feeling it yet? No, I wasn't, I didn't feel anything yet, right? So, okay, so it was like, I've never seen this happen to this guy ever, right? So he, this isn't him, like, so it's kinda weird, right? So my assistant's like, hey, I'll take him up to the room. I was like, okay, well, we're gonna go have a few more drinks at the bar, right? So me and the other guy go to the bar. She goes up to her room, right? I don't know any of this is happening, but as soon as they get to the room, the head of security's knocking on the door. So my assistant answers, and I guess the guy was like, is there a guy that threw up in the restaurant here? And she's like, he's in the bathtub naked right now. And then the head of security, like, hey, we watched the tapes, ton of info comes out, right? So I don't know who did it. I think so, but like, uh, and then did it tell you? No, no, no. They, they talked to my assistant and then her husband. Right. Like, so, uh, I go down to the bar, right. I put my credit card on the bar and like I fucking party till all hours of the night. Yo, what did I learn? If you roofie me, like you're going to wait six hours to get that booty. Cause once you give me drugs, I want to party, baby. You know what I mean? Like, so I'm out, like, I don't know what the fuck that the surefire guy, fucking Peters out on me and I'm probably just in the lobby alone like it's fucked up I don't know if I know what was in it fuck no there's just

Speaker 3: something it wasn't necessarily roofie roof and all yeah probably something I

Speaker 2: don't know what it was so the next day we check out right shows over we check out so my assistants knocking on my door right and I'm a get-up early guy I do my cardio you know so I'm normally up early and she's knocking on my door right so I answer my door and I'm like thinking the fuck is she doing here so early right both of her and her husband and she's like you know I'm glad you're okay and I'm like what you know what I mean and she's like what what she looks she's looking at me she's like not you too and I'm like me too what you know I mean I'm kind of foggy right it was like fucking it was checkout is after checkout time I I slept till like fucking one in the afternoon the next day. I had the worst fucking hangover ever. Like, if that was Rufy's do, the hangover, I understand why people don't do them recreationally. You know what I mean? Like, I had the worst fucking hangover. So, she's like, let's go.

Speaker 3: Did anybody get tested to find out what it is?

Speaker 2: Mm-mm. No, they had to fly home that afternoon. They got me in my Sprinter van. I had to go do a class like somewhere else. I was on the fucking road. So like, she got me, they drove me to breakfast, got me something to eat, kind of sober me up a little bit, right, and then they went to the airport, dropped me off, and I drove somewhere else in Texas, I was working here. And then, you know, the head of security talked to her and her husband, called them a couple days later, check on them, make sure they were okay, but long story short is we had a round of drinks that none of us ordered come to our table. And they came to our table from the same waitress that we had, you know what I mean? So somehow we got a round of drinks and we even paid for them. And when I got the bill, like, I don't know, we had two drinks and we were getting ready to go and then a third one came and I just figured, someone ordered it, you know what I mean? It'll be fine. And then I just paid for it all, did not even think of it.

Speaker 3: And so did the security know who roofied you?

Speaker 2: I think so. I think so. And they didn't tell you? I think they told my assistant. I think they- And you didn't ask her? No, I didn't care. Yeah. Oh, I'd want to know. it was like a targeted thing where they just fucking rob you. You know what I'm saying? I like I don't think I mean all right first and foremost I think everyone's trying to burgle booty holes this day and age and you got to keep your safe so there's that right but I also think like I think it was like they know all these people are in for these conventions so they try to drug somebody and just just fuck it you could have just took my out of handage in my wallet That's not a crime. He handed to a buddy of mine recently. Oh, yeah

Speaker 3: Yeah, he met this girl and they go back to his place and then he wakes up the next day and he's robbed Stole his Rolex stole $25,000 in cash from him, but he got tested and he had I think it was Xanax She piled a bunch of Xanax into his drink and he was just out Didn't know what the fuck happened came to the club afterwards. He was like all fucked up came to the comedy club He's a comedian Hans Kim shout-out to Hans Hilarious guy, so he's like something happened. I don't know what happened We're like hey man go to fucking go get tested right now while it's still in your system So he goes and gets his hair tested and they they found that there was roofies in him damn Well, I don't even know you can be tested. Yeah, you can be tested. Oh shit, but you there's like a time period If you test hair it'll like last a little longer, and I think he laid it waited a day So they had a test hair, but within a certain time period they could test you and find out what it is And they said did you take any Xanax? He's like no I'm like, you know a lot of Xanax in your system And apparently that's one of the things that they give people to rob them. Dang. Does it cause a hangover? I'm sure

Speaker 2: If you're gonna drive me I'm gonna whack you out drug me, you know, if you're gonna rob me like I just want to say This is the world if you're gonna fucking rob me like give me the non hangover shit. You're getting my shit

Speaker 3: Anyway, what is the non hangover shit? I don't know whatever that shit is

Speaker 2: You know more about drugs than me. I was in the army my whole life. I don't think it exists. Damn it, Joe

Speaker 3: I think it's prescription stuff or GHB. I know a lot of people give people GHB. I've heard of that That just gets you like you don't know what the fuck's going on I've heard of people getting roofied that way if I was a woman I'd be fucking terrified to accept a drink from anybody Fuck dudes are I've talked to so many ladies that have had their alcohol drug by someone when we go to bars They keep their fucking hand over their drink all the time Even when they're turning around and looking away because they just never know some guy just dropped something in there real quick Mm-hmm next thing, you know, you're going home with them. You don't even know where you are. I had a buddy

Speaker 2: He doesn't even drink like someone convinced him to have like a glass of wine small-town, North Carolina and like the cops pulled him over like No, you know not far down the road and he was like, I don't know what's going on But I can't feel my hands, you know what I mean? Like and he's like, he's just a regular guy, you know And they brought him back to the station and someone had put I think it was a little bit of fentanyl or so In the wine and like he he left and he said he felt fine and he was driving He said like I don't feel right even though like he doesn't really add one glass of wine like you might he doesn't even drink You know, I don't even know why he had a glass of wine. Someone probably talked him into it You know, I mean, he probably didn't even finish it. But he's like, you know, he said he was lucky

Speaker 3: He felt lucky fucking non-human people out there. I'm telling you. That's one of the things

Speaker 2: I wanted to talk about today is like there's fucking real evil in the world and in Iraq. We're in Afghanistan you go into these Fucked up places where they've been like, I don't know fucking raping beheading people fucking for a tribal shit forever forever like there was buildings I don't even want to fucking go in like you'd you'd go and you'd be like Every fucking hair on my body just be standing up and I mean at the doorway and be like I don't even want to clear this fucking building, you know what I mean? And I don't know fucking why but I know there's fucking old evil in this evil's real

Speaker 3: It's fucking real and if you've never experienced it you could walk around delusional think oh come on. It's real

Speaker 2: You can feel it like when I'm around real evil shit only two places I felt real evil shit in my life is Gettysburg and Fucking in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yeah, I felt that like I did And because I felt evil before, and it makes me want to throw up, it hurts my stomach.

Speaker 3: In the area of Gettysburg, my stepfather felt the same thing. And he's not woo-woo at all. He's like a real straight edge guy. Fuck, man. He said it felt so creepy.

Speaker 2: I was almost going to, me and my son were out there ghost hunting, right? And we were both going to throw up, and I didn't tell him, but I had felt that feeling before.

Speaker 3: Gettysburg because my stepdads never said anything like that before and he said just the feeling it was so sad and Creepy and you just wanted to get out of there. It makes me want to throw up. I think places have memory I really believe that well

Speaker 2: I think his energy and I don't think it can be created or fucking you've talked to science guys, right?

Speaker 3: Energy don't go away, right? Well, I think you just don't see it and you can't measure it So you assume it's not there But I think that's one of the reasons why when someone gets murdered in a house, they have to tell you about it Right, they have to because like people they they know like there was John Bonet Ramsey's house when I lived in Boulder I lived in Boulder for a while We were looking at houses to buy and there was this one house was like really cheap for the house I was like, this is a nice fucking house They had changed the name of the street so they could try to sell this house Because everybody knew that it was the house that John Bonet Ramsey had been killed in They couldn't fucking sell the house and we were look. Yeah, fuck that house. We were looking at the house on like Zillow We're like, oh, that's a beautiful house. Maybe we should go check out this house. And then we found out like oh That's why they can't sell it. Like oh man, like they changed the name of the street to try to sell this house It's fucked. Yeah, sure. Just bulldoze it. They should have bulldozed it and then what do you do about the ground? It's still there You still would would you want to live in the place where the bulldoze the house for a little girl getting killed?

Speaker 2: Fuck that not not even not even joking about it. I don't know. No, no one wants to live there

Speaker 3: I don't even know what it what it is now. I mean, I don't know if anybody ever bought it

Speaker 2: Yeah, I grew up in old houses in the Chicago area You know what? I mean and like some of them houses were creepy for no reason and some weren't you know

Speaker 3: I'm saying like yeah. Yeah. Oh, there's something there's something to that

Speaker 2: But uh, hey I was I was in Iraq and I was in one of them like, you know Udink who say like fucking raped people them guys were evil you went to like

Speaker 3: they're like their palace all that kind of shit all of them my yeah I carried I

Speaker 2: carried their bodies off an airplane and had a guard them until they got cleaned up by the Morgan DNA tested but uh them fucking guys them palaces like they would pick up like fucking twelve-year-olds off the street they Give them to dog the lions we found them fucking so who they had lions and the lions were it's not funny But I mean, it's kind of humorous, but I think it's funny the lions were like on the Army side the big army side and they were inside this fence Right, and then the lions were like just lazy as fuck didn't care about no army guys And then one day I seen a lady and kids walk by and they're just behind chain-link and them fucking lions Went nuts and I knew like they only feed them that fuck. Yeah Fuck. Yeah, they were fucking evil

Speaker 3: I read so many horrible stories about those guys that they would find a woman who was getting married and

Speaker 2: They would rape her and then feed her to their dogs. Yeah, or the fucking carp outside the palaces, you know them big lakes Full of these giant carps are just well gonna eat bodies like you read about Yeah, but uh, so I was down in one of those one night just cuz like I could be and I had my flashlight always been fascinated by ghost hunting by the way So I'm down there by myself just exploring, you know what I mean? And like fucking door slammed on me You know what? I mean? I was freaked the fuck out. I'm the only one down there You know what? I mean? Like freaked me the fuck out man And the energy down in those fucking like rape rooms or whatever enough I don't know the fuck you call it like they did fucking bad shit there. It's just like I Don't know like it it like you ever ride like a roller coaster, and it like turns your turns your stomach Yeah, that's how it feels to me in them rooms I don't know what that is, but it makes me almost want to throw up and the stronger It is the more I feel like I'm gonna throw up but

Speaker 3: Yeah It's just so crazy that that that story repeats itself over and over again like the sons of kings Yeah, they grow up that way are always just super fucking evil because they have unchecked power from the time They're a child. Yeah

Speaker 2: Yeah, I got I gotta be honest if I could clone myself and I'd had like a mini me right now I would abuse him just to make sure he grows up, right? I would raise him, right? You know what? I mean? Yeah, I don't and I when I say abuse him I mean like force him to work hard. Yeah fucking earn his shit his whole fucking life I mean like yeah, I had a guy like I had a I don't know what he was I was in the Middle East somewhere and one of the guys asked me like our American baby stupid And I'm like what and he's like our American baby stupid, and I'm like why and he's like well in America Like there would be a fence at the edge of the cliff so the baby can't go over in my country like the baby knows Don't go by the cliff

Speaker 3: And I'm like, I don't know Bet they don't I bet the babies that don't know go off the cliff and they're those genes never propagate again Yeah, yeah, that's the most harsh form of natural selection. Yeah the most harsh form of it. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, no fucking I mean kids that grow up outside lock-key kids like when I was a kid Yeah, you just got left out of the house by have fun and you figure out who's the child molester? Yeah, yeah, you figure out who's a creep who's what's dangerous don't don't go near the train tracks You can't hear the train till it's too late stay away. You hear about the kids that gets hit Yeah at the liquor store exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I did the same thing you learn about danger

Speaker 2: Yeah, I tell you my a lot. I got my first key. I was six. I fucking lost it like the same day My mom's yelling at me and she's like, you know, what do you got to say for yourself? I was like, I still remember it's like one of my oldest memories. I was like, I'm six Yeah. And she was just kind of like, yeah, I'm six, like I had it one fucking day, like I never carried a key in my life, like of course I'm going to fuck this up, you know? And she was like, we can't afford all these keys, you know what I mean? But at the same time, like I'm fucking six, you know? So we ended up having to hide it somewhere and then, you know, cause my brother wasn't good at fucking keys either.

Speaker 3: Like, you know, it's fucked up that I don't want that to happen to my kids. Like I don't want my I mean my life was nothing like your life, but I was definitely like let loose in the world You know and not really given any guidance kind of kind of let loose with no guidance But that's how you make a person like you Like a person like you doesn't come from a home that has like, you know, you're coddled you're taken care of you're always protected like the only way you make like a a legit beast of a man is that that man has to go through a lot of shit through their life and then they come out on the other end hard right it's the only way right you don't you know I've never met like a world champion fighter that came from like the happiest of childhoods yeah it just doesn't exist I don't a lot

Speaker 2: of a lot of unit or special forces or Ranger guys like I used to call it the fatherless you know what I mean and it works kind of two ways either you had a dad But he worked and he came home and he passed out and he woke up and he was gone before you got up and when You got home He was asleep on the couch or already out for the night because he fucking works fucking a lot of hours Or you kind of just didn't have a dad, you know what? I mean, right those people make Special Forces soldiers just like you know dad issues for a chick or put her on a pole those Same issues in a dude puts them in Special Forces. Yeah And I'll take the fatherless all day long. Yeah

Speaker 3: Yeah, well, those are the world champions. I mean, that's Mike Tyson, right? He was 13 years old, no family. Gets adopted by a guy who's a psychologist who's a hypnotist and is a great boxing coach and teaches him to become this elite fighter. And I kind of think that you don't become that guy unless you're dealing with all sorts of unspeakable tragedy and horrors when you're a child.

Speaker 2: Well, you wouldn't have that kind of focus without that.

Speaker 3: You wouldn't have that monster inside like you have to that monster has to grow because it needs to be there, right? Yeah, yeah

Speaker 2: I would say like and I don't know what the ratio is but I would say like one out of every fucking hundred or 300 is like the fucking high school quarterback who married the fucking prom king very rare Yeah, I think I only knew one of those guys. Yeah, those guys

Speaker 3: I bet if you dig into their childhood that dad was probably a little abusive. Yeah, or their mom or brother. Yeah something There's another things older brothers. It's like you want to find the young brother the young brother's the beast. I'm the little brother The young brother gets beat up by the older brother and just constantly in battle his whole life Like so many fighters, you know, the best fighters have like like Chris Weidman's got a great story like that

Speaker 2: Well, I mean think about this if you had a fight your bigger brother off your whole life You would be good at jitsu. Why because you understand leverage you understand patience wait for the move

Speaker 3: Yeah, take some punishment move later. You know the deal also a custom to being in battle all the time, right with your brother

Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, Hickson was a little brother to holes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah thing. Yeah and Horian

Speaker 3: Yeah, Hickson is he's such a unique guy because he was like the first guy that figured out like that physical strength Yoga all the gymnastic natural stuff that he did flexibility like yeah he was like a physical specimen on top of being super technical yeah so he had like both things yeah he had it all yeah way

Speaker 2: before people way before like he he knew the winning mindset and how to keep that mental edge with all the other things and the fighting was just something that he grew up to do I think yeah you know what I mean yeah he had that samurai mindset yeah I'm telling you I think he like I talked to a lot of people I know some legendary guys from the army right when he talks it's like this weird time vortex you ever talked to him like seriously I've had a couple of podcasts

Speaker 3: with him like it's incredible you know I went over his house once in like 2000 and him and his son, and we were watching Colosseum. So Colosseum was like the last time he fought when he fought Funaki. And we were watching all the different fights. He had a tape of it, and we were watching it. And he was breaking down all the things that all these guys were doing wrong. It was such a fascinating education. He was like, there's too much space. You start here, there's too much space. And he goes, he had this philosophy. Accent by the way if he goes we started a neutral point we started a neutral point if I get to one I'm not going back to zero. I'm going one to two to three to checkmate. He goes. I'm not going backwards He goes these guys they lose position they go for here go for there all this extra space And he was like breaking it down while we're watching the fights. It was such an education love that I was fucking amazing It was amazing. Yeah, he's a he's a legend. Oh, man, like one of the great legends of martial arts You know if you like go into the history of martial arts Hickson Gracie will go down as you know There's a Mount Rushmore of martial arts legends him and hoist right up there. Yeah, I agree with that And I always tell you like Hickson he goes my brother was a hundred times better than me

Speaker 2: Yeah, well when hoist used to come to us, he would tell us straight up. I'm not the family fighter Yeah, our you know, and I think what he told us back then was like, I don't know Hickson was pride contracts UFC was different couldn't figure it out. That's why hoist even fought, right? I I thought that was kind of the deal back then but well, I think there's a long time

Speaker 3: Thoughts on it, you know hoist jokes around he goes he goes look how beautiful I am. That's why they wanted me But it was also because Hickson was very physically dominant and the idea was like let's have this guy that doesn't look physically impressive to show Jiu-jitsu to show the power of jiu-jitsu, but if that doesn't work, then we bring in Hickson Huh, but I didn't know that hoist beat everybody and then Hickson went over to do Japan Valley Tudor. Yeah in like

Speaker 2: 94 I think it was I used to love all those the Valley Tudor's pride. I thought that was the best

Speaker 3: Oh, the great the golden era of martial arts is when everybody was learning. Yeah, like holy shit. There's so much out there Yeah, I agree. I loved every minute and then Fedor Melianenko comes on the scene. He's just like Fedor is my favorite one of the all-time greats. He's another one I mean if there's an the greatest heavyweight of all time you have to have he's got to be in the conversation

Speaker 2: I feel like back in the day We'd be like we'd be talking about fighting and it'd be like man I wonder if anyone's ever like done this from like the mount Yeah feed or one like six fights like that and in like I wonder if anyone's ever done like Something like this and like well feed or one his last fight just like that You're just like fucking this guy like you know, that's prime. He was a monster

Speaker 3: Yeah, and so stoic like his expression never changed. Yeah, he gets head kicked. He gets suplex. Yeah, nothing It's like no one's home in there. You know, it just didn't register. He was just a machine. Yeah

Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved him and I like when he I seen an interview one time remember his brother Alexander sure He was like Alexander is better than me if he just wouldn't party so much Yeah, he was an animal and I was just thinking fucking feed or saying his brother's better than him

Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean well his brother was bigger and taller and was a nasty striker Yeah, his brother was a vicious striker had good kicks. Oh my god. He was fucking good, man But that was that was the days where you know Everyone was just kind of figuring out what worked and what didn't work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you had a Vanderlay the axe It was also a time where everybody was juicy Yeah, the whole organization was like I had a friend who was gonna fight over there and he was 170 pounds and they said no We want you to fight at 185 go do steroids When Ensign was on the podcast, he told me in the contract, it said like in capital letters, we do not test for steroids. Go have fun.

Speaker 2: Come back yoked up. Come back juicy.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Everybody was juicy back then. Because it was the wild days. It was like the wild west. They just wanted the best, most exciting fights possible.

Speaker 2: I think that's what people want now.

Speaker 3: Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

Speaker 3: There's a real argument for that.

Speaker 2: Fans give a fuck about drug testing. No, you know, I don't think look and I think this is for all like the Olympics I get it, but the NFL like seriously, why are you even fucking why?

Speaker 3: What do you want the sport to suck like baseball? That was the thing when they were doing like Mark McGuire and all that shit. Yeah, Sammy. So so yeah, why you test these guys? It's the most exciting thing is to hit a home run These guys are doing something that makes them better at hitting home runs

Speaker 2: Everybody should do that thing whatever the fuck that is think about how much more money that bring those organizations

Speaker 3: Yeah, but there was this thing back then that it was cheating But what it really is is science like they figure out there's a way where you recover more you get stronger you get faster Like hey do that guys and by the way, everybody else is doing it, too They're just like hiding it in some sort of a weird way You know, there's this masking and taking weird stuff and there was you know That Balco scandal where they're all taking his stuff called the clear so they never heard of that You've never heard of that? No, I've never heard of that. I had that guy, Victor Conte on the podcast, who created the clear. He's a scientist. And what he did is he, Balco Labs, they figured out that when they're testing, they're testing for very specific metabolites, so they took steroids, and then they changed it slightly so that it didn't show up in the test, and they're giving them this stuff, and they would all pass clear. And they were all fucking drunk, just monsters, like Barry Bonds. He was a monster. I met Barry Bonds in 1994, I was on this television show called Hardball, and Barry Bonds was, you know, he was still a major league player, a big-time player, but he was a regular guy. Like you look like a regular athlete. And then he started getting juicy and then years later he gained like 60 pounds and was just fucking gigantic and smashing home runs. That would be good. You should keep doing that, whatever you're doing.

Speaker 2: I think that's all sports. Yo, jump as high as you can. Take your fucking gear, jump high, run far, smash each other. Let's go. Well, that's the Enhance Games.

Speaker 3: You know, the Enhance Games doing that. They're developing this whole protocol right now, and the Enhance Games is going to let people do whatever the fuck they want that works. And their idea is, we are going to develop the best athletes in every discipline, and then we're going to give them a lot of money. And we're going to, like, fuck the Olympics. The Olympics is a giant scam. Because the Olympics, the athletes don't make any money, and NBC and all these broadcast networks and the IOC, they're making billions of dollars off the backs of these athletes' hard work, and no one is going to see them. They're going to see the athletes. I mean, the athletes aren't even compensated. It's a crazy scam. It really is. Because it's not like, if no one made any money, including the networks, including the IOC, great. Great. But that's not the case. Making a fucking shit ton of money, but it's not the people that are putting in the hard work It's the people that are pointing cameras at them. Yeah, it's the dumbest fucking thing of all time Yeah, so the enhanced games is like let's throw out the drug testing Let's encourage people to do whatever the fuck that works and let's give them a lot of money So like whoever wins whatever they give them a million dollars Yeah, and then you'll get like the elite athletes will be like, well, why am I wasting my time? time competing for free maybe I blow out an ACL or herniate a disc and my career's over and I don't have shit to show for it or I can do steroids and then win and and have money for the rest of my life yeah I want to watch the steroid sports

Speaker 2: of course you know I mean the enhanced league or whatever it's called like that sounds to me like the NFL is going away I want to see the mountain hit another

Speaker 3: mountain you know what I mean like let's go if they just got they told the NFL

Speaker 2: let's just say everybody get juicy fuck those guys are already freaks they're already doing it probably you know I mean I only imagine I don't know but my two cents is like you're doing it anyway just fucking go with it the way I

Speaker 3: understand they allow they let them know when testing is happening and so then

Speaker 2: everybody waste the fucking money you know what I mean like phone it in let's Let's just phone that in. You know what I mean? Like, yo, I took that drug test. Okay, click. Save some money for everybody. The drug test should be multiple choice. Yeah.

Speaker 3: Yeah. We'll fill it out.

Speaker 2: No, nothing. Yeah. The drug test should be, we're just kind of curious if you had any success, and we want to know what works so we can recommend better stuff to people.

Speaker 3: Right. But there's this weird thing about protecting the athlete's health. Like, hey, fuck face, they're playing football. If you really cared about their health, you would tell them don't play football.

Speaker 2: So true.

Speaker 3: There's no way you care about their health. There's no fucking way, you know? It just doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 2: I mean, there's inherent natures of danger there. Concussions, knees, shoulders, right?

Speaker 3: Everything gets blown out. How about vaccines? How about you making them get vaccinated and they have fucking heart attacks on the field? Does that make any sense? No, you don't care about their health. You're full of shit. Those guys didn't have to worry for a second about COVID. They're elite athletes of the highest order. Do you really think that something that literally only kills like .03% of the people who get it, and those people, or most of them, have comorbidities, you really think elite athletes of the highest order had to worry about that? Of course they didn't. It's all bullshit. You don't care about them.

Speaker 2: Let them get juicy. Yeah. Fucking juice it up, boys. Let's go. Get that gear. You know what I mean? Hey, let's take those piss cups and turn them into fucking drink cups and serve them some whiskey in the locker room. Let's get this shit going. And I want more fighting in my sports, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3: That's why I like hockey. Yeah, I love cocky. Hockey's the last sport that allows fist fights normally in the middle of a sport. It's the only sport that allows the occasional fist fight, which is kind of crazy.

Speaker 2: I live in North Carolina and there's a little local hockey team at Bragg. I go to a lot of hockey games because it's like, it was like seven bucks for a long time, you know what I mean? And they'll fuckin' blood on the ice on the Thanksgiving game, you know, they'll throw like a, they'll have like a non-league team come in, and it's fuckin' blood on the ice, man. These, like, the Southern Provisional Hockey League, like, I love this hockey, you know?

Speaker 3: It's just wild that that's the only sport where fist fighting is allowed. Yeah. It's kinda crazy, because it's grandfathered in.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 3: Because it's basically bare-knuckle boxing in the middle of a sport. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Which is real weird. Yeah. where like, you know, you rubbed elbows with a guy and he falls over. And you're like, what the fuck? You're faking it. Like, I have children, I know the faker. Like, what the fuck? Like, I'm a parent. You can't fool me. Well, anybody could see.

Speaker 3: It's the dumbest thing. Like a hand against their face.

Speaker 2: Yeah, they fall on the ground.

Speaker 3: They fall down and they're fucking holding their side. They're holding their chest. It's so dumb. But it's also one of the reasons why it's not really accepted in America. Because you watch that flopping. We're like, come on, get up. This is so crazy.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree.

Speaker 3: Especially when people watch football. You're watching guys get fuckin' waylaid by a 300-pound super athlete. They get up and shake it off, and then they're right back on the field.

Speaker 2: Yeah, the guy's like adjust his helmet a little bit, you know what I mean? Takes his mouthpiece out, you know, all right,

Speaker 3: and can fuckin' move on. I just started watching football literally this last year, and you know, when I see guys collide, I've had so many injuries, knee surgeries and shit, and jujitsu injuries, I see guys get hit, I just like fuckin' hold my knees, I hold my back, I'm like, oh. It's the most brutal shit of all time. A guy who's 290 pounds is running full blast and colliding with you with 100% of his strength.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's fucking crazy, man. I used to, when I was 38, I was a SAR major in the Army, and like, I don't know, hand-to-hand jiu-jitsu kind of got boring for me, so I was looking for other hobbies. I was at the PX, and I seen the Fort Bragg rugby team practices like Tuesday at six or something so I just went out there for something to do man and I'm gonna tell you you think fucking jujitsu fucks people up fucking go play fucking rugby matter of fact stay the fuck away from rugby like it's fucking brutal no helmets no nothing man and like when I was a kid I don't know if I can say this but we played smear the queer all the time like I don't know what you call that but that's what's just called when we were kids I come home my shirt would be ripped I'd get another beating cuz like you ripped another shirt these are expensive you know I mean but like it's my brothers anyway right like not like you bought me a shirt but man it was like crazy my first practice like the ball sitting there and then one of the coaches like grab the ball and run I just fucking grabbed a ball and just ran every one of these little motherfuckers over and then like guys are like man what college you play in I was like none and I never played a rugby a day in my You know, my first game, you know was like fucking in my third practice, you know, I mean, that's crazy But in in doing jiu-jitsu and fighting people in Iraq every night Like I thought rugby was kind of easy the guys running at me and I just got to take them down Fucking double legs and then I started getting more tackles than anyone in my coach You know, they keep stats and be like you had like 80 tackles a game. How do you do that? And it's like double double double leg takedown single leg. Maybe a trip Yeah, you know what I mean? And but and then like one of the times, you know, one of the coaches was like Hey, will you teach us? How you know, how would you how do you normally tackle you get the most tackles and like Double single legs. So you basically teach them wrestling. I just taught wrestling. Why don't they teach them that that would seem to be like Pro level fuckers are doing that. They have to like you have to you Yeah, I mean cuz think about this like I know a lot of linemen Do like Cali for hand speed and stuff like that, you know what I mean, right? Cuz they gotta win the hand fight. So right I know there's a lot of sports that use a lot of discipline So I would imagine they would have to be Fucking having you know wrestling practice or takedown tackle practice, right?

Speaker 3: I would imagine they're doing same shit as everyone else for just understanding leverage and how to manipulate a body, right?

Speaker 2: Yeah, right. Well, there's no pads So, you know, you can't come 30 miles an hour into this tackle. You might have to come in at 10 miles an hour, you know what I mean? Because you got no pads.

Speaker 3: Right.

Speaker 2: You know?

Speaker 3: Well, that's the argument against pads in football. Is that these guys, the only reason why they can play the way they are and collide with each other full blast is because they have helmets and pads on. Yeah, yeah. Which is totally true.

Speaker 2: I want thicker helmets and more collisions. Let's go.

Speaker 3: Come on. It would be a wild game if you had American football and no pads. I mean, that's what they used to do

Speaker 2: You couldn't pay me to wear one of those get the fuck out of here with that

Speaker 3: I wonder how many guys died playing that Imagine how many concussions how many head-to-head collisions Oh running full-blast And then you know if you're Samoan, you're like some big giant, dude You're gonna go head-to-head with guys cuz you know, you're gonna win it. Yeah fuck every time

Speaker 2: So you just fucking headbutt and everybody. Yeah, the army team has a lot of Tongans Fort Bragg Tongans are paratroopers as people. I don't know how that works, but they are man. They all play rugby a Buddy of mine was like I was like, you know you how you know when when you start playing rugby He was like I was like three, you know huge guy like I knew I knew I was doing pretty good at rugby when the Tongans were like we'd pick they'd pick teams and all the Tongans would be like we want Big John you can have the rest and I'd be like yeah me and the Tongans I guess I'm right we'll fucking crush the people but like they start playing with like a coconut imagine holding a coconut and just going down ribs on a coconut like and I'm like why would you play with a coconut and he was like well there was only one rugby ball on the island and the bigger boys had it okay Like yeah, but yeah, I played rugby for a while and I stopped doing MMA to play rugby But what I realized is rugby is way more injury prone and dangerous. So I kind of went back to jiu-jitsu

Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, one-on-one is definitely you can control a lot more of what's going on than a bunch of dudes

Speaker 2: Yeah colliding into each other. Yeah. Yeah, I agree man. So I know rugby's awesome. It is awesome

Speaker 3: It's weird how it never took off in America. It's kind of strange, you know, because we love violence You would imagine that rugby would be something that we would have adopted

Speaker 2: I think the only reason it's not popular is because of the time like it's like soccer once it starts it doesn't stop Americans want to go take a piss and get another beer and come back and then they want you to commercials

Speaker 3: Yeah, and my big thing about soccer and the game never stops tough to sell commercials, right? You can't stop the game, right? Whereas football you have a fucking yeah, right time bro. Yeah a whole half hour

Speaker 2: Well, you ever see the apps that just show you the plays of football a whole games like 12 minutes of actual work

Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know what? I mean soccer those motherfuckers are running the 80 minutes Let's go and it doesn't stop. You know, you have to be in insane shape to play soccer The cardio is just nuts. You're basically sprinting for the entire game I never played soccer, but I don't think I would enjoy it well We went to watch the the they have a professional league here in Austin and these dudes have these fucking quarter horse legs Yeah, they're like thin upper bodies Gigantic legs because they're just constantly doing plyometrics. Yeah printing and going side to side and left and right and Fucking crazy cardio, but it's never gonna sell in America if you can't have commercials. Yeah, I think that's why Rugby's not popular Yeah, I mean that makes sense. Maybe they just change the rules a little bit, right?

Speaker 2: Here's what we're saying is rugby starts and stops without a time. That's the same thing we want for you just said for MMA

Speaker 3: Oh, yeah Right. That's the problem with MMA too, right?

Speaker 2: You can't have a no time limit fight because how are you gonna get the next fight at midnight or 10 o'clock dudes would kind

Speaker 3: Of fight to the death like if you get the best of the best today where they're so evenly matched And they're brawling go four hours five hours like and then that would probably end your career Like at the end of it you might not ever spend again Yeah Be spent like you got one of those in you right because there's a lot of guys like there's a fight and you could point To that fight and say he was never the same Yeah, Tony Ferguson Justin Gaethje a lot of people point to that fight Justin Gaethje better Tony Ferguson so bad He was he was undefeated up into that but or maybe he lost a couple of times But he was the boogeyman Tony Ferguson was the scariest dude in the sport and then one bad beating and he was kind of never the same again Cuz one bad beating just yeah changes everything. Yeah, you just never really recover. Yeah

Speaker 2: Well, once you lose the mental edge, right like there's a little bit of that

Speaker 3: but there's also like a bad beating to the brain like he got just he got hit so many times in his head a Bad beating to the brain after a certain I mean no matter who you are if you're sparring and if you're fighting you're getting hit in the head period and so over the course of your career, you're already Accumulating a certain amount of abuse and there's one fight that could break the camel's back. Yeah again boxing I always point to Meldrick Taylor Julio Cesar Chavez like Meldrick Taylor was the fucking man won the gold medal in the Olympics and Chavez just Methodically broke him down and then stopped him in the last round of their fight Like literally at two seconds to go Richard Steele stops the fight and from then on he was never the same It was just he took so much of a beating in that fight that he was never the same again

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that happens with soldiers, too. I've seen a lot of guys are like we got mortared or rocketed and then Next deployment guy Yeah, I think there's a there's a time where everybody says enough's enough right like yeah Whether you want to or not, and then once you reach that point like coming back from that point, right? Become that mental champion against fucking long road

Speaker 3: Is there anything like you as a leader when you see a guy who's maybe? Crossed over in that way. Is there anything that you would do to try to bring them back or is there nothing that can be? done

Speaker 2: That's a great question

Speaker 3: Define bring him back define what's wrong with him, right? I guess a confidence thing or just being Terrified so like new fear being introduced, you know, a lot of guys think they're Indestructible. Yeah until they're not and then all said now this is a new factor. Yeah, I used to teach

Speaker 2: Tandem jumping and bundle jumping in the military and I don't know if you ever see my social media But like I'm in the sky flying and there's a huge barrel under me I used to teach that and what would happen is if you had a bad jump a you know bundle jump You would have to cut away and We called it the nightmare right and you got to end the nightmare and this thing starts spinning you out of control It'll be so many G's that like you'll pass out the parachute will open later, right? You'll be fine but We used to tell guys right like fucking end that nightmare make sense now You're the captain of the ship. So a guy would have to end this nightmare. However, he ended the nightmare, right? and then what would happen is afterwards we'd review the video and I'd have to show a guy right and then We'd leave him in the classroom for a minute and we tell him hey gather your emotions Whatever you need to do and then get on the next plane Get right back on the horse get fucking back on that next plane You know what I mean, and guys would do that. You know what I mean a lot more seals needed that time Then like unit guys cuz unit guys like yo, I'll fly this motherfucker up your ass We ain't gonna have no problems the day son. You know what I mean? I'm gonna fuck it. Um I don't know. I think the difference is it look the unit is always more mature than seals. It's an older culture. It's older guys more experienced guys more methodical guys more planned out so like in a lot of times like you know younger guys normally the seals they'll have their jump numbers but they're like their core they're what makes you you confidence dexterity strength fucking health it ain't there yet and they kind of freak out once in a while younger guys it's a maturity thing I think normally happens of the seals most unit guys are pretty mature and have been through so much shit by the time they get to the unit that like you're probably unshakable by then but

Speaker 3: You see that in fights to like young Undefeated guys who fight like a world champion who's like in their 30s and that guy breaks him down And then you see like they don't know what to do when things are going sideways. Yeah, and then mentally they fall apart

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. That's when the bad decisions will start You know I mean and the reality is you got to snap your fucking self out of that You got to fucking put your parachute back on and get the fuck back on that airplane. I had plenty of those jumps I've cut away more fuck I had a cutaway training for D-Day last year if I can put my cutaway you can see how fucking low I am and everything You know what? I mean? And I have procedures. I have another parachute like we're all gonna die. Am I gonna let it ruin my day kind of thing Like let's fucking move on. You know what I mean?

Speaker 3: But how did you develop that mentality just over time?

Speaker 2: I think that comes with what I just said is the core of a person and I think this what the army is really good At is developing this core right in this core in this core, right? How do I develop your confidence? Well, I don't fucking know I couldn't even define fucking confidence because I went through Chicago public fucking school system But I could tell you this if I taught you to rally racecar drive and you got pretty fucking good at it. If I taught you jujitsu, eventually you're pretty fucking good at it. I show you skydiving, eventually you're pretty fucking good at it, right? Why? It's because every one of these things I showed you, world-class level, and we brought in world champions in to show you, right? Eventually, you're gonna gain confidence. It's the taking your daughter to karate or little kids to jujitsu. They have confidence that other kids don't have, right? That's what you gotta build. So it takes a lot of different skills and getting guys good at a lot of different skills to build that fucking unshakable core. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. And it's a matter of when do you introduce them to like extreme adversity? Do you build them up slowly?

Speaker 2: Right, right. And it has to be built slowly, right? And then we used to say this, like aircraft training, right? Let's say you got a breach in airplane right and you got to climb a fucking 20-foot ladder cuz these motherfuckers ain't low to the Ground right and you're hanging on a ladder and you weigh fucking 280 pounds and your shit But you're on these fucking ladders with fucking six other guys who all weigh the same as you or more You got to crack the door get the fuck in this airplane right now Let's just say this is your first time and you crack that door the first time and as an instructor I know you're cracking the door and as soon as you crack that door. I fucking shoot you in the face You know what? I mean? Yeah, and with the training round, right how fucking embarrassing right? And then the reality is is yo, you just move ruin this motherfucker forever. How do you breach an airplane?

Speaker 3: Oh, what's this? What's a successful protocol for breaching an air mechanical or explosive? What do you mean

Speaker 2: Sometimes we open doors. Sometimes we blow doors. It depends. So which one you want to know about?

Speaker 3: OK, let's go with mechanical.

Speaker 2: Yeah, most doors have a lever on the outside that can be activated. And most doors, there's a certain way they open. My team, I was always kind of like a primary door guy. And then there's a certain way doors open. There's latches. So all airplane doors open from the outside.

Speaker 3: But once you breach it, though, you're in a tube. You're in everybody knows where the door is. Yeah, it's a very vulnerable position. Yes So what's the protocol for breaching a door when you're in a tube like that?

Speaker 2: so What you have to do is breach as many doors as possible and get as many people in as possible as quick as possible And everyone goes to positions right you got cover guys. You got runners. You got searchers It's a lot of shit that needs to go on on these fucking aircraft. Same with a fucking big cruise liner, right? So So everybody's going to, once the door is open, everyone's going to flood in and kind of like go to their places. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 3: Right. So you plan it out, you know where you're going to be, and then you're still dealing with the chaos of you're in a tube and there's only one way in and things are coming at you no matter what. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2: So there's no clean way to do that. Not even once. What a crazy fucking task I know but the back to the point is if a guy cracks that door any door Let's say it's your first time. I'm showing you like all right Joe. I'm gonna show you some you know close-quarter battle I'm gonna show you how I clear a door and then just joking around like you're about to go through a door and I shot You in the fucking forehead You wouldn't mentally never want to go through that door again, right? So I have to build you up to where well the first time you come through the door Why don't just let you come through the door? Right, and then it builds from there And then there's a point where it's like more this motherfucker shooting through the crack of the airplane Wait till I'm in this fucking bitch. I got two pistols on me this motherfuckers going down. You know what I'm saying? Yeah so as your as as your confidence, your core, that core of a human being, like that core of an operator, right? As that becomes fucking concrete, a guy's just unshakable. Like, let's go, I don't give a fuck what this position, I don't care, like I don't care if I fucking die, let's do this, you know?

Speaker 3: And it's consistent training over and over and over and over. Do you think that this is what's missing in the police force?

Speaker 2: Oh man, are you kidding me? First off, I work at a lot of police departments. I love police, I support police all the time. It's a fucking thankless job, I'll say that. But I would say like, think about this Joe, if you trained police better, right? I work at a lot of police academies, I've helped a lot of police academies, they don't fail people anymore, I show them what I do, I train them to do what I do, they have great success with it. I would say this in a police academy, let's say it's six months long, whatever they do, I don't fucking know. Probably about four months of that is fucking paperwork. And then, you know, you get a little hand to hand, you get a little driving, you get a little shooting, and then you learn what? Yeah. But I'm gonna tell you this, as a cop, you got the rest of your life to do that paperwork. And when you're in training, right, as soon as you like get your first arrest, your training officer is gonna be like, don't write it that way, hold on, let me see your paperwork, like this. Uh-huh the paperwork could be OJT and they could spend them time right training these guys and if no I'd also say this is if police were trained better and truly uniformed officers are probably the only guys like Stopping crime as it happens if we train those guys better. Why would we need SWAT teams?

Speaker 3: Right, you would have we SWAT teams through the whole thing

Speaker 2: Everyone could be SWAT and if we got ten and ten of us come together Yeah, we're our own SWAT team. Yeah, we don't and then we could operate independently. We could operate one or two and like I think police don't do the force multiplier thing like each guy is his own fucking bastion of The law, you know what? I mean? Like I just think they kind of share Injuries, they don't do hand-to-hand, right? Shooting could be dangerous, right? And then most shooting is, you know, the instructor is God and you are fucking stupid. That's how most training is. It's like basic training. And like, no one learns well like that either. You know what I mean? Right, right.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm always shocked when I see fat cops. Like really fat cops. And I'm just like, how? Your whole life is your body. Like your whole life is, you have to be able to physically defend yourself, you have weapons, you have, you know, the law and the uniform and bulletproof vests and all that, but your physical body is almost useless. Yeah. I was at a football game the other day and there's this like obese cop, like enormous belly. I was like, this is disgusting. It's ridiculous. Yeah. You've let yourself get to this point where I know you can't even run. You can't last 30 seconds. all someone have to do is grab ahold your arm that you would use to take your gun and control that arm, get you to the ground and you're fucked.

Speaker 2: Shit. I just baseball collar the back of their fucking collar, their shirt, where the fuck are you going? You know what I mean? It's crazy. Um, yeah, look, okay. First off, I think also police should have different jobs like the army. So, okay. If you were 400 pounds, Maybe you're the computer guy at the police force or a desk guy or you know what I mean? Right, right. I don't think everyone needs to be the fittest human being ever. However, if you're on patrol Get the young six-foot kids in there man. You know, I mean they can handle themselves. They're young. They're bigger than normal, right? This is why a lot of troopers state troopers used to have like a six foot six one six two height requirement because a six foot two man can generally handle most people right you know what I mean especially a fit one yeah yeah so I think the fit guys need to be on the force I think I think there's room for everybody but I think with police is your police officer or your detective and then that's it but really you're always a cop versus like well the army right okay there's drone pilots there's all these army jobs that kick the Infantry kids out the door, right? Why don't police kind of organize like that and that way like the guys are going to run people down can run

Speaker 3: That's what drives me crazy about this whole defund the police or shit. Like are you fucking crazy?

Speaker 2: You should be funding them more fucking crime is real. Yeah, it's real evil is real evil is fucking real

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah to pretend it's not well, that just means you haven't experienced it. Yeah, you're living with blinders on. Yeah. Yeah, I say I agree Yeah, it's just bizarre that we expect these people to encounter danger and evil all day long their whole lives, like 25, 30 years. And you know, you don't train them properly. You don't fund them properly. And then they get disrespected by the public.

Speaker 2: That's the worst. The worst. I think the worst is when like the mayor or the police fucking chief is like not supportive of all of the fucking guys. And it's like, you think the guys have bad intent? You know what I mean? I get it, there might be bad apples or whatever. Everyone's got 10%, say what you want. But like- Well, how about Kamala Harris? When she was running for president,

Speaker 3: she was all about defund the police.

Speaker 2: I don't know how that sells with anybody in the country.

Speaker 3: It's like 2019, 2020. I mean, it's fucking crazy. It's a crazy thing to say. It really is a crazy thing to say.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I mean, if we defunded the police, we'd be Mexico quicker than we thought. Yeah, right right because the cartels would just drive over the border. Yeah

Speaker 3: That's real. Yeah. Yeah What do you think about this idea of using special forces guys to fight the cartels?

Speaker 2: First and foremost like if you were like, yo, we're gonna wipe out a cartel tonight I'd have been like I'll load my frags extra careful. Like let's go right but the reality is is like Like, uh, I know all my buddies are like, yeah, we'll fuck them up in a night. We'll fucking, yo, yo fucking let's back up a fucking second here. The cartels have fucking men. They own the ground. They have fucking technicals. They have machine guns. They have fucking everything an army has, right? And they've had decades to train waiting for this. Number two, and number three, our government's fucking compromised. So if you think they ain't going to know you're coming, you know what I mean? I think you're fucking high.

Speaker 3: Jesus Christ. That's a terrifying thought, that the government's so compromised the cartel's going to get the word out before.

Speaker 2: Well, how are we going to ... Look, we're not good at being fucking sneaky. We're not the Israelis doing that fucking pager shit. That pager shit was wild. That needs to be the model for every fucking thing we do in the future.

Speaker 3: No matter what you think about the Israelis, what's going on in Gaza, that Pazer shit was

Speaker 2: wild. Yeah, which tells me America should go back to making its own fucking cell phones and its own- we shouldn't have our fucking comms made overseas at all in any way, shape, or form in my opinion.

Speaker 3: At all. No, I've been saying that forever. We should have our own cell phones. Fuck. And the fact that we're buying so much shit from China- Fuck. Especially after they banned Huawei because they know that Huawei stuff was compromised And they're having third-party input and be able to spy on people. It's fucking crazy

Speaker 2: Well, this is why we got to go back to making America like it used to be we made our own shit We use our own shit. We wouldn't have to worry about none of this

Speaker 3: Yeah, it's um. It's a very strange thing. What's happening in this country where China is allowed to buy land That's near military bases. They supply cell phone towers They put all these different they sell us all this different shit, and we don't really know I mean I don't know how many experts are investigating these fucking cell phone towers fucking zero

Speaker 2: I bet fucking zero Mike Baker was on here

Speaker 3: And he was telling me about how around military bases like China has installed their equipment and all these military Bases like at Formula one we where we were mm-hmm my buddy owns the track And they found these Chinese boxes they had attached to the Wi-Fi So they were just scooping up everybody's data. They called in Homeland Security to have them remove it and investigate it I'm gonna racetrack a racetrack book, but they knew everybody was gonna be using this public Wi-Fi Probably no VPNs probably no security and these people are getting their all their shit siphoned up They're so sophisticated in how they've infiltrated. It's fucking crazy and we just allow it to happen It's very strange because you can't buy shit in China if you think you're an American company gonna go over to China and operate With autonomy you're out of your fucking mind. Yeah, you can't buy shit. Yeah, they don't they'll never let an American

Speaker 2: No, they don't want a Chinese would never buy communication devices from America

Speaker 3: No, and they certainly never let America buy farmland right next to their military bases. They're like fuck you. Yeah, we're like sure We'll sell it to you. Are you gonna pay more? Oh boy. We'll take your money fucking it's weird

Speaker 2: It's weird how goofy we are. I know and then like well, I think it's this Joe I think people don't realize how fucking dangerous the rest of the world is and how like people are like plotting against us and It's fucking real out there. The world is a crazy place I say this like you don't know how fucking safe you got it here and how fucking great we got it here You know what? I mean, like people don't know that because they don't never leave here So they're stuck in their own fucking bad attitude of like their own grind or whatever the fuck they do And like look I'm telling you the world is fucking evil people will fucking rape you kill you. No one gives a fuck like

Speaker 3: Protect yourself all the time. Well, you've been to parts of the world Well, you've seen this firsthand and I think it's one of those things where if you don't see it, you don't believe it

Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll tell you one of the I think the biggest thing I saw in Iraq. I think in maybe 2009 ish There was like the most fucking US soldiers Ever been in Iraq, right like whatever the numbers around fucking no, right, but When Iraq had the most fucking soldiers that has ever had in Iraq is when Iraq was the safest think about it you know what I mean all we had to do was flood put a fucking tank under every fucking overpass in every fucking neighborhood there's a machine gun and fucking 50 Cal Humvee right like who's fucking around they're everywhere and that's the safest Iraq ever was I'm telling you we have that here and people don't understand that in general so if you wanted to fund the police fuck man we're fucked you know what I mean yeah like it's a crazy but

Speaker 3: You know, do you know Evan, Evan Hafer? Yes. Yeah, Evan was, we were in elk camp, and he was explaining some of the shit that he saw when he went from Iraq to Afghanistan. Just how, he's like, Afghanistan is so fucked that you can't even comprehend it until you're there. Yeah. He goes, once you're there, and you see it, and you understand it, you become so cynical. You almost like, this culture is like, unfixable. He's like most people just don't know that a place like that exists. That's so just down to its core So fucked and we was talking about how these guys have these boys that they have is that their harem the number nine boy

Speaker 2: What's that? So the Egyptian special forces called him the number nine boy. He's the boy that gets fucked. Why number nine? I don't know. That's what the Egyptian special forces called But every Afghanistan village had a fucking Nate. What do they call it? The Choghi boy? But basically the 12-year-old that gets raped

Speaker 3: He was saying these guys have harems and they would parade him down the street to show they have the most boys

Speaker 2: yeah, this was this happened to me on my So I did a solo mission in Afghanistan the book kill bin Laden ever hear of it. Yeah, I brought a hardback for you Oh, I'll sign it for you if you want, but it's hard to get a hardback It's like it's like it's got library shit in it I had to buy it because like people always ask me to sign it. I didn't write the book. I'm just in it And people always ask me for a signature on it, right? So I bought like, I don't know, a family or friend, someone wanted one. I bought like a lot from a library. They didn't use them no more because they don't sell the hardbacks no more. But I went out on a mission alone in Afghanistan. I was gone 10 days. First, I think first successful mission of the war, my opinion, I don't know. I don't know if there's other missions were more successful than mine, but. So I went out alone and then I do the recon. I have the footage I need. I have every fucking thing I need to launch a raid. We, I'm alone, we stop. I'm in a fucking jingly truck, right? Like I fucking just, I'm in this truck. I hitchhiked basically from Jalalabad into the Tora Bora mountains. I'm in a jingly truck with this fucking driver.

Speaker 3: What's a jingly truck?

Speaker 2: You know where they like, it's like a fucking, like a six wheel like dump truck. But like they hang the chains and bells and they paint it like 17 different bright colors and they, you never seen a jing, yeah, a fucking jingly truck. Because it fucking jingles, man. Yeah, yeah. What the fuck is that? Yeah, so I'm in one of these motherfuckers with this motherfucker, right? He's like a logger, he runs the valley, he's always in the area. But like, I don't know any of this fucking, I can't even talk to the guy, I don't fucking speak shit, you know what I mean? And then, like, it's fucking dangerous. I had to go through checkpoints. I had to act like a retard to get through a fucking checkpoint. What did you do? I don't know, I was at a fucking checkpoint and the dude was like, there's this fucking, the checkpoints in Afghanistan are fucking sketch. You know, they got like one piece of yarn across the road. You better fucking stop or you will be shot. They don't give a fuck about you. And like, so the car in front of us, I think the fucking like this dude like stole bread from a little kid You know what? I mean little kid was eating a piece of bread We just snatched it out of the fucking car yelled at the people. I thought he was gonna shwack him because I didn't have Anything to give him that he wanted So I'm in this jingly truck comes next fucking a K in the chest Fuck. I don't know what the fuck he's saying, right? But I know if I speak English, I'm dead. So not an option Um, so he's like yelling at me right and then finally I just figured I'm gonna do like volume level 12 and just fucking yelling his face, right? So I just get super close to his face, which he didn't like and I'm like, no And the guys like And then like backed up and then motion like the motion like get the buck through here with a K Wow Wow, yeah, so what you just on the spot. Yeah, another one I had a I picked up like a dirty towel or blanket off the floor and they took that Right, but what I learned being out alone One of the things I learned is you know You like you watch the movies and like they pull out a wad of cash and they're like Wink get me across the border there friend You know these motherfuckers that just shoot you in the face and take everything you got Don't whip that shit out. You're gonna get murdered. There's gonna take it all I mean, they'll steal bread from a fucking kid. You think they give a fuck about your life You know what? I mean and they just fucking throw you on the side of the road and let you rot like I don't even care about the smell like so like Yeah, I had to act like a retard through this one man. They don't give a fuck man

Speaker 3: I don't give a fuck just to figure that on the spot on the spot. Yeah, so

Speaker 2: We get I get in the truck. We do the recon. I like had a literally I had a cigarette bag I think it's like Kent or some shit. I don't fucking smoke but like Kent cigarettes I had a plastic bag with my book and sat phone and Anyway, I had to get a camera out get it under my arm and I kind of filmed the house right US eyes on And then I had to get the footage back. So we get to the end of the valley. It's fucking dark You know, there's no way we can get out of the valley before light So, uh, we stop at this house and the driver's like, you know, motion us in, right? It's the Muslim right of they can't turn you away, right? So we go to this house, we're in the room, bunch of old fucking grumpy men. They don't fucking like me at all. Uh, and the driver and the driver, I guess, goes there and crashes all the time when he's in the valley. Right? So this is normal for him to be here. Uh, and then, so in that room they had like this boy and they fucking drug him into another room and you could hear yelling and shit. And it's just like what the fuck do you do? I have Everything I need to pull off the first successful mission In Afghanistan for the American government, okay do I save this kid and compromise my mission or do I just get the fuck out of here and Pull this motherfucker off and the reality is I had to look the other way and I didn't like it But so I took my speed, you know, they give you speed I took my speed stayed up everyone went to bed they fed me dark opium tea they tried to put me down that's why I drank the tea anyway knowing it was spiked and then I took my speed to kind of counteract it and then everyone went to bed I laid there just wide awake and laid there wide awake like I fucking shut an eye these motherfuckers are gonna cut my dick off and stick it in my mouth cuz that seems like what they like to do and then finally the middle of the night I I fuckin', fuckin' got my AK, I stuck it in the driver's face, I drug him out to the truck like right before sunup, and we fuckin' left the valley, but like, you know, compromise the mission or save the kid, what do you want? What's it gonna be, man? And then like, you just see this all over the place.

Speaker 3: So you, you were like one of the first guys to do these singleton missions.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: So when they set you off to do something like that, like, what's the protocol? Like how do they, how do they even?

Speaker 2: Good luck. You know what I mean? I don't know, like what do you think?

Speaker 3: What do they say to you?

Speaker 2: Well, back then it was that guy Dalton Fury, right? The guy who wrote Kill Bin Laden was my commander. And, okay, it's a long story. I wrote, I'm writing a book. It's finished. Maybe someone would want to publish it, but it's called The Singleton and it's about my going out alone. but I was at my base, I was in Asadabad and we were just getting rocketed and mortared every day. It's kind of like mortar bait, whatever. And then we had like fucking zero lickies and chewies, no fucking candy, no beef jerky, no fucking Pop-Tarts, no fucking nothing, right? And we're just sucking it up and like, I gotta eat fucking these Afghan motherfuckers cook us food and like, I'm eating vegetables? I don't even know what the fuck that vegetable was. I don't even recognize it as a vegetable. You know what I mean? Yeah, I know that's fucking goat because it tastes horrible, but I don't know what the fucking, I don't even know what the fuck they cook me. You know what I mean? It's like, anyway. So I go to my boss and I'm like, yo, hey, I wanna fucking go to the main base, right, and steal pogie from the fucking chow hall. What's pogie? Pogie bait is a term for like beef jerky, snacks, candy, cookies, like any kind of like snack food right so and my boss is like yeah if you you schedule the airplanes you make all the coordinations you can go I was like fucking bet man I fucking scheduled the helicopter like motherfuckers you don't know how resourceful I can be you know what I mean so I scheduled everything for the next night and then like I drove my I had a red Toyota truck I drove my Toyota truck in the back of the Chinook right so tight in there you can't even Get out you got to just sit there. Hope you ain't got a piss. They fly me to the main base Fucking land drive in the main base like by this time like the army's like taking over where like you got a like fucking Salute, I'm fucking the army base in Afghanistan like two weeks ago like a fucking SAS guy lost a leg in a landmine you know, but So I go to the base and then these the commander sees me and and he's with his sergeant major another guy And they're like, this is our fucking guy right here. So like, hey, what are you doing? And I'm like About to raid the chow hall Like the fuck's it look like I'm doing, you know, I mean like if it's one thing I'm honest, right? So I was like, yeah, I'm getting pokey for the fucking for our base. Like what's up? And they're like, hey, we got a mission for you. And I told him hey, I'll do it, right? But you just gotta tell my ask my boss if it's alright cuz I didn't work for these guys And they're like, okay, cool. They're in my squadron, but like not my direct boss, right? So they call my boss, my boss says, fine. And like, they sit me in this room and they're like, hey, we want you to go out alone. And I'm like, okay. And they're like, explain everything to me. We want you to go out alone. Like, do you have any questions? And I was like, my only question was, and it wasn't a question, I looked the commander in the eye and I said, tell me you're gonna cover my ass if something goes wrong. And he was like, oh yeah, we'll cover you. I'm like, yo, you could have gave a fucking better man up with that answer, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? He gives this weak answer and I'm just thinking, well fuck, man, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3: So what were they telling you they wanted you to do?

Speaker 2: Go out alone, US eyes on, get footage of this guy at his house so we could launch, right? Because the generals back then weren't in line with Bush's dead or alive. And they were, I believe the Pentagon was a bigger hindrance in the beginning of the war than they were fucking, than they were worth. But. How so? Well, the general at the time that was in charge of us, our task force, right, and we're talking about tier one, like, the guy in charge then had like two rules. Number one, you can leave the wire if you get US eyes on a target. Okay? Okay. And number two, no one leaves the wire. Well, how the fuck are we gonna do number one without, if we can't leave? Figure it out. So the commander, I was, because I was. When you say leave the wire, what do you mean exactly? Like go out hunting for bad guys, leave your base. You know what I'm saying? Go out in combat. But you can't leave your base. But you can leave the base. Whoo, but you got to get these eyes on to launch a target So you got to get your recon guys out there doing reconnaissance because we need these reconnaissance and US eyes on they hit these targets Okay, we want to launch reconnaissance Yeah, no one leaves a wire That's kind of how it worked man, right? So the reason they use me is According to the army the army at every level is great at accountability a hundred percent we need to know where everyone is at all times right so when I flew to the other base I was in transit right so they left me in transit for a week so instead of saying I left the wire I was just in transit because I was in transit anyway to go get pop-tarts so they lied to everybody left me my stat And I didn't know this at the time I like like this could have mattered less to me. I learned later, you know, but they paperwork nutshelled the general and Sent out reconnaissance and that was me and then they came back with the eyes on and The general agreed to launch the mission and it was a success and no one asked How did fuck did someone leave the wire because no one cared because we were successful, you know what I mean? Wow

Speaker 3: So, what are you thinking when you're out there doing this? Like what what is going through your head when you agree to do this?

Speaker 2: Fuck Figure it the fuck out. I don't fucking know. I'm not trying to have it anything in my head

Speaker 3: That's what's crazy. It's like they just let you figure it out. Yeah, so you have to feel very vulnerable

Speaker 2: um, I don't know I Wouldn't say vulnerable Joe, but I do think this is like there's guys that like fucking make it happen You probably got guys like this any task you give a guy is just like wait You're done with that already like some people could just make shit happen, and then I'm one of those guys That's like my one of my better qualities make it happen so like Fucking go make it happen motherfucker Like a retard when you get pulled over and do what you got to do baby like fucking survival of the fittest

Speaker 3: So the problem is once you do one of these now you're the guy that can go do these things yeah

Speaker 2: And I did hundreds in Iraq and fucking loved it

Speaker 3: Yeah

Speaker 2: Loved it Fuck that yo you you okay think about this Joe, and and you do jiu-jitsu when you fight right you want to depend on yourself Or you want to depend on yourself and people you don't know what the fuck they're made of Who the fuck are you gonna trust? Don't trust yourself, right? So I it wasn't really a big stretch for me to be alone. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. It's still a very unusual mindset. Um, yeah, maybe I don't know and then my other mindset is like No matter where I am. No matter what I do Everyone in a 25-yard radius is gonna fucking die Just so I can make it home And if I had to kill everyone in the whole village goddamn, right everyone in that fucking village would be dead for me to come So I just figured yo fucking be ready to fight at all times. I learned a hundred to one Lessons learned leadership lessons a hundred to one being alone versus being a pack of 30 motherfuckers, right? Like yo, let us come ram this down your fucking throat and we'll call it Tuesday You know what? I mean where when I was alone like you got to make better decisions. You're a fucking coyote You're a ghost, you know, you got to make ghost decisions the fucking, you know, the bravado like we're gonna kill everybody the fuck We are we're not gonna fire a shot Why because like you you fire one shot as a singleton, you better be ready to kill everybody Because gunshots is a fucking dinner bell for psychos. You know what I mean? So Are you ready? You know what I mean? And the reality is is like I had to think of other shit do other shit had to act like a retard You know and then I had to get along with people. I had a How to do so much shit that is out of like even the commando norm as a singleton, you know

Speaker 3: I think if no one that can really teach you this fuck. I mean

Speaker 2: No

Speaker 3: How to breach an airplane right how the fuck you're gonna teach a guy to act like a retard if you get pulled over how You're gonna teach a guy to be a singleton and right

Speaker 2: Well, we used to tell guys and I used to tell my guys all the time and this is a unit thing But like I could train a monkey to shoot. I'm training you to think I Don't care about the shooting because if you're thinking right the shooting will be easy. You know what I'm saying? Yeah but yeah, man, uh I'll tell you I thought about writing a leadership book calling it the singleton and just kind of the lessons I learned, you know, like so few guys have done that, you know, like I see all these like, you know I don't know. I don't look at the internet. I don't watch the news. I don't do any of that I don't do social media. I have it. I don't fucking look at it. I don't have it on my phone It's not worth my sanity So I'm like a fucking time capsule for fucking the 2000s, you know what I mean? Yeah, like I never understood some of these other like veteran stories You know, I never I never kind of look at the lone survivor I never understood the full story because I went out alone all the time that shit didn't happen to me motherfucking seven Taliban on my ass You want to see seven fucking bodies super quick. You know what I'm saying? Bring them boys up here, you know, so I Never really fucking understood some of these other stories Because I had such a different experience. I can't fathom if I was with five, you know the times I was with five guys You know how many people I was with three guys, you know how many people we killed in the Battle of Tora Bora fucking hundreds I just stopped counting on my first day like So having said that like I don't understand some of these stories because I had the experience I had

Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying? It's a very unusual experience. So like how many guys were singletons fuck. I don't know any

Speaker 2: You don't know me. I mean a couple of my buddies, but like not like me Wow Yeah, and then once I did it it was kind of my lot in life. How many pages is this book that you wrote? Uh, I don't know like fucking 20 chapters. I wrote a bit

Speaker 3: It seems like it'd have to be 500 fucking pages. Yeah, so I wait to read that book shameless plug if you know Someone needs to buy that book 100% Yeah, yeah, we'll get to that book sold. All right. We'll get that book So 100% so that Lee I need to read that book right now. I'll give it to you. Okay. I'll text it to you

Speaker 2: Oh, okay. I'll text it to you for real. I'll text it to you. I'm done with it. Okay. Yeah I think it's as good as I could get it and I'm just a rig. I'm in Chicago public school system fuck I didn't even take a book home because if the school loses the books they can't teach so it was like half Half of my class was in the book and the other half was homework and he left the books in class

Speaker 3: So like I didn't have homework, you know, it's probably better because you're gonna get it like yeah from you. Yeah with no Gloss. Yeah

Speaker 2: But which leads me to Iraq where I did hundreds of solo missions. I was a taxi driver I had, like, I don't know, fucking 30, 50 vehicles in Iraq.

Speaker 3: So once they realized you can do this...

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 3: ...like, oh, call McPhee.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, no, it was just kind of my thing. Yeah. Like, you don't have to call me. Just tell me what you need. Wow. Yeah, I mean, my bosses knew how to use me like that.

Speaker 3: So you started enjoying the craziness of it. I loved being alone.

Speaker 2: Why did you love it so much? I don't know. I hate to say this but like guys like me are generally fucking assholes. Like you've met a few guys like me and they're like Yeah, I was afraid someone would get away like shut the fuck up man. God damn it. You know what I mean? Like so not really a fan of a lot of like alpha males They can be dicks at times So like I kind of set me down my down my path as I just stayed away from the dicks and did my own thing

Speaker 3: You know what I mean, right? So you just had you had your mission and you enjoyed the fact that it was all up to you

Speaker 2: I didn't have to fuck with no one else. It's on my timeline fucking and I will make this happen Like I will make shit happen that other people can't I don't know how I don't know why but I just will

Speaker 3: That is such a wild experience like your experience in war must be so different than everybody else's just because of that. Yeah

Speaker 2: So having said that we're talking about Iraq. I brought some show-and-tell items. What'd you bring? I brought something I have never fucking shown before. What do you got? And I believe it's fucking evil

Speaker 3: You must see yeah, I do. What is it? I got I gotta get it out of my box. Oh, you got a box I'm kind of scared What's that

Speaker 2: Hey, can you Google Saddam Hussein Mauser?

Speaker 3: This is his hat?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Jesus. It's the one where he shoots the Mauser in the air at the fucking parade grounds. I was given that by his tailor.

Speaker 1: Wow.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that one. The liner fell out. The liner's in here. Look. It's, uh, you can see what kind of hat it is. The glue fell out of the liner, but look. I rolled up his tailor and all his butlers anybody who touched his ass fed him or touched his dick I fucking rolled them motherfuckers up Wow Saddam was captured nine days after I left I had a lead for Christmas this is

Speaker 3: crazy this was on his head now it's here yeah yeah yeah yeah but uh it's a

Speaker 2: Piccadilly Fox fur hat I also have a sweater I took a I had all his clothes like man fuck I had everything that guy but uh yeah his tailor okay so Saddam's inner circle right when when when I was working Saddam we were gonna sit on piece right some fucking legendary hits that no one's ever fucking talked about like we did the cleverest shit fucking during Saddam and I will tell you this is I learned on my fucking singleton mission in Afghanistan the first one we need to be a lot fucking smarter if we want to crush these motherfuckers and I'm not talking like we captured two bad guys I'm talking we go in kill everyone needs to be killed capture everyone that needs to be captured and fucking do this right right so yeah with the Saddam piece right his tailor and his butlers and Saddam's inner circle was all Christians mmm fucking every one of them was a Christian and Saddam believed that Christians if they martyr themselves go to hell Muslims martyr themselves you go to heaven so he surrounded himself with fucking Christians so his tailor his his butlers, his jawalas, all those guys, they're fucking washing his ass, feeding this motherfucker. We're all Christians. And it's why Christians flourished in Iraq, which they're, you know, like, I'd like to, I'd hope all these guys are still alive, but the reality is, is like ISIS probably fucking got rid of them after Saddam's gone, you know? Yeah. ISIS killed so many fucking Christians, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. But they were all Christians. And so his, it started with the ex-ambassador, excuse me, to the US. And then I met the tailor and started talking to the tailor and then one day he brought this hat and he brought some clothes and I was like, what was this? And he was like, you know, he told me this is the one where he shot the Mauser and he had some clothes. I grabbed a sweater, I wear this sweater on Christmas Eve And then, hey, when I was fatter, it's like a fucking halter top, my belly fat's hanging out, you know, my family's like, I don't know, I didn't think I'm nuts, but I normally wear that sweater on Christmas. I forgot to bring it around, I brought it, but. Wow. Yeah, now that I lost weight, I think I'm actually Saddam's size, you know what I'm saying? It's spooky, you know what I'm saying? I end up being the same size, I could've wore all those clothes, you know what I mean? Wow. But yeah, they were Christians, right? And we rolled up the tailor, the tailor gave up a butler, like I was, me and another guy were at the tailor's house, right, and we were gonna snatch this guy, right, this butler, and the butler is the guy who used to wash Saddam. Like, he bathed Saddam every fucking day. So Saddam had someone bathe him.

Speaker 3: Yeah. He didn't bathe himself.

Speaker 2: No. Crazy, right? Yeah, weird. But he had a lot of, but they were all Christians, And they were all, honestly, they were all fucking nice people, to be fair. Like all the Christians were great people. Anyway, yeah, so I'm in the house with another guy and the guy's early. So we fucking shoot up on the roof, the guy comes, I call my guys, they're not really in place yet. So he comes, he leaves, he only stays a minute, and he's gone. You know what I mean? I think all these inner circle Saddam folks know they were valuable to us and like they realized they were going to get snatched at some time. So he was like, he was out, right? I called my guys, right? And then literally my guys were like two blocks away as he was leaving. He ran into their Humvee. He ran into my guys and they're like, Hey, this guy just ran into us in like this vehicle. I'm like, that's the dude. He got in an accident.

Speaker 3: Yeah. He got in an accident?

Speaker 2: Yeah, he ran into our guys in a Humvee. He was trying to drive away and like crashed into like the guys that were gonna snatch him. Wow. Yeah, I'll tell you another Saddam story. This is one of my favorites. Saddam had like regular pieces of ass, and like his favorite piece of ass was this butter face lady. I don't know what she did for him, but she wasn't a looker. You know what I mean? So like, look and feel are different things. Saddam knew what felt right to him, obviously. Um, and she was married and we wanted to get to her. I mean, maybe Saddam's favorite sex partner wouldn't know where he is, right? Like, um, so we have the tailor, the tailor knows who he is. So we have the tailor kind of invite him to the tailor stop shop. this tailor had a store in downtown Baghdad so he comes in the store and I told my guys if he doesn't come out quick to I had a couple I don't know what they're called now Mohawks I think is what they call the Iraqi counter terror guys well before they were even established like the guys were with us you know so we had a couple of those guys and I have them start fighting in front of the store right so literally everyone piles on in the street to see these guys fighting right like everyone piles out of all the shops stores and everyone's watching these two guys fight literally the guy we're looking for like walks up to see the fight and his back is to the van door the guys that are gonna snatch him Wow so I call him like yo you see that tall guy that's our guy I fucking snatch him and no shit van door van door fucking open Nobody even knew where the fucking guy went the tailor later was like, where did he go? Did you take who took him? Where did this guy go? Where's this man at? Yeah, I mean like no one even seen him get snatched, right?

Speaker 3: That's such a clever idea. Yeah have two guys fight

Speaker 2: And then later my boss was like who were those guys fighting? I was like, that's our boys and he was like, wait, did you do that? And I was like, I didn't want to be there for like six hours. Like, you know what I mean? Like, how do we speed this up? We got shit to do today. Like, you know what I mean? That's my efficiency is my thing. Like that's genius. Yeah, that's one of the and we did so much Hey, all right. I'll tell you another one. My first Saddam hit I worked a Lot of Intel side for Saddam me and a couple other guys So we worked somewhere not with our squadron and we worked with another government agency make sense So we get to call the squadrons doing a hit. There's a Saddam sighting, right? So this is like the beginning like 2003 Iraq We were fucking Ken blocking it with fucking maps like hit the third traffic circle go out on the nine o'clock Clock like literally I get us to fucking Ken block and fucking navigating through a fucking shitty Baghdad fucking street map I get us to the fucking target right Humvees are already there the rest of the guys are already there Rangers got that block and positions all set up So we get there we raid the house right we get all these guys and then finally there was like no fucking shit Yeah, there was like I don't know 15 motherfuckers. It was like a Saddam look-alike fucking contest They all had the mustache. There's like short fat Saddam's. There's like tall skinny Saddam's So it's like body doubles. Well, I don't know if it was body double It just all looked like yeah, because like the Saddam look was popular the mustache Yeah, I mean not that they all look the same, but they kind of all look the same, you know from my perspective at the time Right. So like it was like well, no wonder someone called this in it's fucking like they all look like Saddam you know what I mean, right and then on the outside like Fuck man the Rangers shot up these vehicles at the blocking position I have my squad my my sergeant major was like hey go fucking clean up the bodies And I'm like why the fuck am I on brains detail? I didn't fucking shoot nobody today And he's like you're the only one with a regular pickup truck that could haul the bodies And I'm like fucker already thought it through. This is why this guy's the boss. You know what I mean like and then I I Lesson learned that day is you know, like in Iraq, you just drink water out of bottles and then throw them in your truck Man, we were loading bodies in there's fucking a hundred water bottles in the back of the bed Someone just come by the bed of the truck and throw an empty water bottle in like at the house or whatever Right and like I'm throwing bodies and fucking shit in the back of my truck and there's like bloody water bottles squirting Everywhere is a fucking mess man, so I learned that day like my vehicles are always clean always fucking clean From that day on but like is a fucking mess and then Man, they shot up this fucking this old man this old lady like they ran the checkpoint they were about they're about to Hit the Humvee with the Rangers so the kids shot at the driver But like the kids didn't the Rangers back then didn't know as much as Rangers know now you know what I'm saying And the kid like shot the warning shots at the driver, but he hit the brakes. And the fucking vehicle will never stop if you shoot the brakes. I don't know if you know that, but and it fucking hit the Humvee at like fucking 40 miles an hour, broke the transmission and I had to clean up the bodies. Had to set up an HLZ, take them later to the HLZ, you know what I mean? And then it was like my, is my first Saddam raid in Iraq. and it was my first experience in Iraq with the Rangers and that day I was fucking fed up with them. There's some young fucking 18-year-old kid medic in the back of the truck and I'm like, hey, fucking give these people morphine. He's like, I'm not supposed to give the enemy morphine, Sergeant, you know what I mean? I'm like, yo, does anyone look like a fucking enemy to you here? Anyone fighting you in the back of the truck? Then there is no fucking enemies here, bud. Fucking give these people some drugs. So like, at least we ain't got to fucking hear him moan and shit. You know what I mean? And like the kid, like I had to force him to like, fucking be humane. You know what I mean? And cause he was just trying to follow orders later, later they'd be so much better. Right. But beginning of the war, like my first, that was my first Saddam hit. You know what I mean? And I was just thinking, fucking this is going to be awesome. And that kid was shooting down the street with a 50 Cal. Like imagine just the fucking city street in Austin. Right and you're parked in the middle of the road and you just shoot with a 50 Cal off the top of a Humvee You know like eight feet off the ground do those tracer rounds would skip down the road It was breaking glass fucking going through cars fucking, you know, 500 yards down the road like people scattered Like it's amazing, you know, wow 50 cows amazing You know what? I mean? And then I had a fucking pickup guts, but well

Speaker 3: This is the fucked up thing about it is like you you went through all this chaos You're uniquely qualified for chaos for some strange reason.

Speaker 2: Love chaos is my jam, man. As soon as this gets confusing, yo, I got this. You know what I mean? But why is that? I don't fucking know. It seems to be what I do best. Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 3: Is that something that you accumulated this mindset over time or did you just always have it?

Speaker 2: I think it was beaten to me.

Speaker 3: Really?

Speaker 2: Yeah, like think about it. When I was a kid, the house was chaotic. You know what I mean? You learn the chaos.

Speaker 3: Right, and then it's just, you're designed for that. Bring glass in case of war.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I guess so, I don't know. I think I'm a normal guy, but people tell me I'm not.

Speaker 3: It's not normal. I mean, I understand you. I understand you. It's not normal, but I understand you.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, I just feel like, Okay, we're all gonna die. I'm not gonna let it ruin my day. I've been through bad shit. I'm not the fucking victim. I've done bad shit. I'm not the fucking bad guy. You know what I'm saying? Like, and then having said that, it's like, I don't know, man. I think it affects everybody differently, but I think, you know, before I retired, I was burned out. I didn't know I was burned out. I was an asshole every day. Fucking, I was, you know, I just, fucking guys would come into my office. What do you want? Yeah, too slow, get the fuck out. When you know what you want, come back. You gotta be like, ugh, okay, Sergeant Major.

Speaker 3: Well, you were operating at 10. Always. Always.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and then I learned, man, like, I was having a lot, I fucking hated my life. I was miserable, I hated being a Sergeant Major. I hated being Army management, is what I called it. I'm not a leader, I'm not a follower, I'm not a soldier, I'm fucking Army management, and that shit is fucking dry fucking toast, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And I just got out of fuckin' Baghdad in 06, fuckin' killin' people. Like, 06 was a great year, you know? And then I gotta sit on the fuckin' staff and do this shit, like, it's just fuckin' killin' me, Joe. And then, so like, I wasn't a very good summer major, so I realized one day, like, man, I think I used to be funny. Like, you know, like when I was a kid, like, I'd catch that beating. If I could say that one fuckin' smart-ass comment to you, I might get beat more, but I fuckin' said my piece. You know what I mean? Even as a little kid, I'll take the beating to fucking call you an asshole. So like, I kinda maybe had that mindset going into it or something, you know what I mean? But yeah, man, I just think like, I think a lot of it just goes back to my childhood and being able to manage the chaos. One minute we're fighting, the next minute, you know, someone's at the front door, like go answer.

Speaker 3: The crazy thing about it is like if you are, you're running any branch of the military and you're asking a lot of people to find someone like you that you can find someone who doesn't just accept this but thrives on it. That's like, try recreating that in a lab. Fuck.

Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 3: I don't know. How do you make that?

Speaker 2: You can't. I've only seen like, I don't know, in my experience of all the guys I know and all the combat I've seen, I'd say there's like, just, I mean, you know, we're not the common guys, you know what I mean? Maybe a dozen in my life.

Speaker 3: You guys on a group chat?

Speaker 2: Fuck no, fuck no, I don't talk to nobody. You know what I mean? You'll never know who they are. They ain't fucking talking to you, me, fucking nobody. You know what I mean? And some, you know, of the, you know, I maybe know a dozen of those guys. Eight probably still work for the dark side of the government as old men, wherever that is. And the other guys are like raising families and don't want you fucking with them, right? You know what? I mean, they don't do shit like this

Speaker 3: Yeah guys like me don't do shit like but the thing about it is if you didn't talk about it People wouldn't know right like I think it's great that you talk about it. I think it's important I think people need to I mean people need to you know, we're trying to like fill in an understanding of the world and until you've talked to someone who's experienced a part of the world in a way in a way that no one else has you don't know that that's a thing right like the fact that you can come and talk about this is a very good thing for everybody thank you because people will see like okay like this is super complicated like this the whole thing was super complicated and to have a guy that could talk about navigating probably the most complicated aspect of this super complicated thing and to actually thrive in it is very strange. Thank you. I still

Speaker 2: think I'm normal Joe. I think I'm a regular guy. You're definitely not normal

Speaker 3: but like I said I understand you. Thanks man. I get it. But yeah man and

Speaker 2: look I got some more items you want to see something else I've never shown off. So yeah I talk about stories in some of my videos about being a taxi driver. I I also had another vehicle that was an Ude Kuse secret police vehicle So when I drive this vehicle downtown like the fucking sea would part the road could be packed Driving my vehicle people just what kind of vehicle was it? It was like a Maxima a Nissan Maxima, but it's what the Ude secret police drove You know what I'm saying? And then they carried these and I'll show you

Speaker 3: Whoa

Speaker 2: So the the lion is the Babylon lion and that's the Symbol of the Republican Guard, but I used to carry that as a taxi driver And when I get out of the taxi people would see that fucking gun and just fucking walk away And that's a Republican. That's what the Republican Guard rocked those silver guns I say it's a pearl handle, but it's like plastic

Speaker 3: Yeah, there's nothing fancy about it, but specific to them. Yeah

Speaker 2: Yeah, I had a guy make it for me There's only so many guys that'll do a case You wanna you want like a Silver a K. What are you the cartel? No get the fuck out of here. You're not serious about guns You know how many fucking knows I had to collect up to like anyway, but that's my Republican guard. That's my taxi driver

Speaker 3: No, so you had that made

Speaker 2: Specifically because you knew that they carried that no I captured that on the battlefield and carried it in Iraq So that is one, but why does it say Bozeman Montana cuz well cuz okay, so if you bring one home you get fired but what I did what I did is I took the handguard in the pistol grip and And then I had a guy make a copy

Speaker 3: Yeah

Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so it's it's I mean it's legal everything, but so the handguard in the pistol grip Yeah, I'm the original guy right, but that's exactly what the original gun look like cuz I didn't look when you're in the defo Like you want to get fired for bringing back an AK right fucking you know what I mean like like, dumb, like, you know what I mean? Like, it's not worth the risk, right? But like, it's like, hey, can I bring this hand guard back? Like, the fuck you want that garbage for? That's a yes, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it took me a while to get, but yeah, that guy built it for me. Just got it, kind of matches the hat. Everybody I know likes to take a picture with that and the hat, so it's kind of popular. But yeah, the hat's been in Texas here for a very long time, been stored in Texas, got it documented about as much as possible as I can.

Speaker 3: There's gotta be some fuckin' nightmares in there.

Speaker 2: I don't know. Hey, you know anybody that might want it?

Speaker 3: What, you're selling it? Yeah. I bet somebody would want that.

Speaker 2: I don't want it. Yeah, I don't want to keep that in my house. No, fuck no, Joe. Why do you think I keep it in a black fuckin' box, man? Yeah, I don't want it. But I know there is people out there that would treat it better than me. Like, I mean, I crammed it in a box. Yeah, and the guy that stored it for me put it in glass You know what I mean like he kind of knew what he was doing Actually, I had it stuffed in a bag. You know what that would be good for

Speaker 3: Zack Bagans haunted museum Yes

Speaker 2: Have you know Zack no I hear that place is fucking creepy my brother said it was fucking And my brother likes creepy shit, and he was freaked out. He's got everything in that place. He's got a

Speaker 3: at a Kevorkian's van where they kill those people.

Speaker 2: He's got the Camaro from fuckin' the Waco, what's, Koresh?

Speaker 3: Does he?

Speaker 2: And like the serial. I don't think so. I thought he bought the Camaro from Koresh. You were gonna buy? Oh, yeah, yeah, that Camaro was for sale. Wasn't the serial number like I am God or something?

Speaker 3: Wasn't it the serial number? It's a 68 Camaro and it was for sale and I came that close to pulling the trigger on it. But I was like, I don't want that fuckin' bad juju in my life, that's it. 68 Camaro from Deadly Siege, Zach Beggins. Oh. Oh, he does have, So he bought it so Zach bought it. Yeah. Oh, he's selling it now. So he got it. It was for sale 23 this was from a year. No, this it was for sale quite a while ago, and I was gonna buy it Oh Somebody emailed me and told me that they know I love old muscle cars and they said Koresh is Camaro's for sale I was like, ooh, and I went like this. Let me buy it. Then I was like no

Speaker 2: The fuck am I gonna do with this? Yeah. Yeah, I'd rather buy one that has no history. Yeah, I have a 69

Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd love them. I love old muscle cars, so I was thinking about it. But I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you don't want that in your life.

Speaker 2: I had a 67 Camaro when I was a kid.

Speaker 3: Look at the title, David Koresh, Waco, Texas, Jesus Christ.

Speaker 2: Does the serial number say I am God or something?

Speaker 3: No, it seems normal. Look at the VIN number, it's normal, it's a normal VIN number. Fucking crazy asshole. That guy, I, when, you know, you went to the mothership last night? Yeah, yeah. gonna buy another building before that that was run by a cult and they moved out here it was called I forget what the what was the name the Bodhi tree is that what it's called anyway there's a documentary on it's called holy hell so this guy this guy he was a yoga teacher in West Hollywood and he was a gay porn star and a hypnotist so this fucking guy you got a lot of ass so what the Bodhi that's it thank you so Waco goes off right and then the cult awareness network starts investigating him and he's running this cult in West Hollywood so he escapes in the middle of night and drives out to Texas moves to Austin tells everybody come here and they all move out to Austin and then he has them build this place it's called the one world theater and all the cult members ran this place for years until they figured out that this guy was fucking everybody one guy sends out a mass email say hey this guy's been hypnotized me and butt-fucking me for the last ten years and everybody's like me too so then I'll find out that he's fucking everybody this guy so they all leave the cult falls apart the buildings for sale so I swoop in when I move here the buildings for sale Ron White tells me about the building being for sale he's like this building fucking awesome I perform there you should get you should buy it so Ron White's my hero so I'm like I'll buy it fuck it yeah you know I I need a clock we're gonna open up a comedy club. Let's open it up in this place all sorts of problems with the building Code this that a lot of environmental a lot of shit So I get out of it, but I bought the building before I watched the documentary Mmm, so I watched the documentary and I'm like, oh, no Same thing. It's like these fucking people though all the lives lost They lived 20 years these poor people wasted 20 years of their life following this fucking asshole And he's got this building, but the reason why I bought the building was because of Waco so wake when Waco pops off They were like oh jeez these cults are fucking dangerous So the cult awareness network starts going after everybody so this guy moves here and changes his name So goes like back then you could kind of yeah No internet that you kind of change your name and know it was a different guy And so he builds he has his whole all his followers build him this theater Hmm so for a brief period of time I was under contract for that theater. Do you go in there building? Oh? Yeah, it was a creepy in there. It was a little weird. This guy would like he had this theater beautiful theater He had it built so he could dance in front of his followers so he could perform in front of his followers He was a weird cat. He was like a really handsome guy when he was younger But then as he got older started getting plastic surgery and go look real weird And he would like be thinking about getting something done So he'd forced one of his followers to go get it done. And so they'd get it done They come back at the fucking cheeks like hmm I kind of like that and then he would go and get the the surgery done at the end of it the end of the Documentary he looks really fucking weird Weird shit to his face Yeah, but the feeling in the building was just yeah like of loss That's what it felt like loss Just oh no Yeah, you know like like you don't want to buy a house from some people that they went bankrupt And they lost everything and their family fell apart and then you're in the house like woo. Yeah. This house feels like sadness. Yeah. Yeah. I felt like we could burn some sage and fucking party in there for a few days. We'll clean it up.

Speaker 2: Get some good energy.

Speaker 3: But now I'm glad. I'm glad that that didn't happen.

Speaker 2: Why even go through that?

Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, it was kind of funny at first. I thought it was funny until I found, you know, a cult owned it. Oh, this is funny. And then my buddy Adam called me up and said, Hey, you watch a documentary on that cult? I was like, Oh no.

Speaker 2: There's a documentary. That's never good.

Speaker 3: Yeah. They don't like doc make documentaries about the good cults No, and it was a fucking it was horrible at the end of the documentary like you're tearing up You're like, oh these poor fucking people because he's so many people Some people are just gullible and they they're not bad people. They just want someone better than them to tell them how to live life Yeah, that's all they need something. Yeah, they need something if they're missing something, whatever it is Something went wrong and they're willing to believe a lot of really ridiculous shit and then

Speaker 2: Yeah, 20 years later. They realized they wasted their life. People do a lot of weird shit. Call it religion. Mm-hmm

Speaker 3: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, and that was this place. Yeah, but That was because of Waco. So this this guy built this thing. Yeah Damn, the Waco things fucked you ever watched the the raid? I know

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the raid kind of like we got the briefings back in the day like, you know The raid was a couple years old, but yeah

Speaker 3: Yeah, I know about the raid. It was pretty fucked. I mean they just cooked those people. Yeah, they burned it down. Oh, yeah I can see the tanks like shooting fire into the buildings. I don't know what happened caught fire Yeah, it was back in the 90s when you could kind of get away with something like that and people didn't really know

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like well, we didn't know it would burn. Well, it is made of wood

Speaker 3: Yeah, but I mean we shot fire at it. Yeah, I don't know what happened. Yeah. Yeah

Speaker 2: It's crazy. All right, you ready? I got some other stuff. You ready? What else you got? What else you got? So check this out. I got a swag bag for you. Okay. I got a bunch of stuff I make that I do, right? So I just kinda wanna, I like to do this, right? Look, I got you the SOB hat. This is the best hat we sell right here. It's the one, I wear this on the range every day. Okay. I got you the same T-shirt as me. Team SOB shirt. Right? Well, welcome to the team, Joe. Thank you. We're glad to have you. One of my second favorite shirt of all times is this, and I wear this every day when I elk hunt. Do you really? Yeah, oh wait. Oh no, this is the wrong one. I got a shirt, I sell these shirts, they're called Slaughter Things, and it's all I wear in elk camp. You know what I mean? But look, we got you a Shut Up Hippie shirt. I sell a ton of these, like, I wear these normally.

Speaker 3: What are the, are they knives?

Speaker 2: Bullets got you shut up hippie shirt. I when I go to California teach, California classes I I wear a shut up hippie shirt all the time And then tons of guys buy him. I had a guy he comes to my classes. He's a younger kid He's tall got a young family, right? They go to I think Asheville, North Carolina and they're eating at like some destination like you got to go eat here and it's a bus So he's a big guy right and he's in this like school bus and it's where you got orders in this old school bus so he said like my shoulders almost touching the ceiling and he had to put his head down and he had a shut up hippie shirt on behind him and some a some hippie behind him was like better be careful wearing that shirt you'll get your ass kicked around here right hey any and he says he looks back and he pulled up his shirt and he said better make it a gunfight and they shut the fuck up oh that's hilarious yeah well North Carolina get

Speaker 3: your ass kicked, that's so funny. By hippies. That's so funny. That's the most gentle ass kicking of all time.

Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for that, you know what I mean? Okay, I got your condom holster, I make these, 365. It's your EDC.

Speaker 3: You make these out of leather, right?

Speaker 2: They're made out of leather.

Speaker 3: I saw this on Sean's show, nice.

Speaker 2: It's A, it's all I use, it's all I wear. It is the most comfortable holster. Here, and that's all the stuff for you. I'll give you the bag too, also. Oh, I got a bag. Okay, so check this out. Here's another thing I use all the time. The cooling schmog. So basically.

Speaker 3: I saw this too.

Speaker 2: You know the schmogs, right? Basically I made a cooling towel the size of a schmog. Okay. So like when I'm on the range, literally I just dump a bottle of water in my neck. The fucking thing absorbs it.

Speaker 3: What's it made out of?

Speaker 2: It's the cooling material, you know like the cooling towel material, right? But the problem with most cooling towels is they're not big enough. So it's like one layer on your neck and it dries in like two minutes. This you could kind of get double it up, pour water on it, it'll stay cool for a long time.

Speaker 3: Because I've seen people, they're making gear and clothes out of this cooling material. What is it?

Speaker 2: I don't know, I think it's like the way it's woven to where when the water drains out of it, it cools quicker. And it's materials that cool quicker or feel cool to the touch kind of deal without knowing what it is.

Speaker 3: I've heard people talk about clothes that they make out of this. They're like, it's really legit. For whatever reason, it keeps you cooler.

Speaker 2: I would wear T-shirts on the range made of that shit every fucking day I'm outside. Yeah? Yeah, fuck yeah. Especially in the heat, you know what I mean? Okay, so check it out. I got you a couple slings. I don't know if you have rifles, but 100% made in America. Everything on the sling is made. There's a QD on there I make. Traditionally, QDs in the gun world.

Speaker 3: If somebody wants to buy any of this stuff, where do they get it online? Sheriff of Baghdad Joe sheriff of Baghdad calm. That's right. Okay, that's right. Okay. Here's another thing

Speaker 2: I got you a punchers punch daggers. Okay, so it's g10

Speaker 3: I got I got a few of them. Okay, so this doesn't even go through a metal detector. That's right

Speaker 2: There's a there's no metal in the sheath. It's all plastic screws a cleans up easy and it won't No DNA, you could clean it and diesel fuel. It'll wash all the DNA off diesel fuel

Speaker 3: You're watching anything alcohol. Yeah, I think so. I think so just go to the gas station. Yeah

Speaker 2: Yeah, you could do fucking dish soap, but you can't permeate the plastic. It'll come clean and I sharpen them with I Sharpen them normally with like 400 grit sandpaper But the reason I made it is I always wanted something where like you I was always wearing my body armor, right? And I wanted to just put the punch dagger right in the center that way if something happened I could get it Right BOM and just start fucking punching I mean the whole problem with knives is you got to learn how to use a knife But with a punch dagger if you could throw a punch, right you could bury that thing in someone's neck You know what? I mean, which was what I would tell anyone Jamie's been looking for one of those for a while Yeah, hey It'll clean the DNA off sand it down a little alcohol. Okay. Another thing I made and this is super important I call these combat bands. It's a high-temperature silicone, but it's a rubber band The so what here is when like when I carry this rifle, I put a sling on it But if I'm in in and out of vehicles, the sling is always just hanging somewhere, right? So I put the rubber band on the gun and then I just weave the sling underneath the rubber band

Speaker 3: So if this touches the barrel doesn't melt right right and then back in the day

Speaker 2: I had to use actual rubber bands for parachutes And if I can last a day like in the heat in Texas a rubber band will last one day in a car Well, well, that's only one day. I might I got to go to out every day in my car, right? so when I retired, it's one of the things I wanted the most so I made them the Guys use them like put suppressor covers hold them on there

Speaker 3: You know on the suppressor you have great videos online like instructional videos like how to fight out of your car Yeah, thank you. Yeah, they're really like informative like yeah, I think so I didn't think I was interested in learning Then I started watching this like this guy's fucking thought this shit through all I did Joe like and I'm look

Speaker 2: I'm a simple guy. Let me just show you how I did this Right, maybe you come up with a better way. I don't know right and but I think this is like this is the difference between the army and the unit in the army they're like here's a gun kid go use it in the unit they're like let me show you to the nth degree how to use that rifle so when something happens guess what you know what I'm saying so it's the difference between showing someone something and teaching someone something and I think those are different and I think I think that's what the unit was good at here's some of my favorite things the boot kits Salomon boots made for the military. I've been wearing Salomon boots. You'll see a set of Salomon boots in the Saddam picture.

Speaker 3: I hunted with them this year.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's all I wear are Salomons, right? Well, if you got the quests, you know how the laces kind of come? Yep, like the running shoes do. Yeah, yeah. So I turn them into like the running shoes. Nice. Yeah, we sell a ton of those. Okay. And what do you do with the extra lace? Cut it off. Oh, you just cut it off. I loosen the boot where I get my foot out and I cut the excess off and put the end on. So I don't have like three feet of laces. I only have like eight or 10 inches. You know what I mean? Six inches, whatever it is. Okay. These are some of my best things. This is a, I would call it a scribe tool, right? In the fact that it's a carpenter pencil, makes sense. You know a carpenter pencil? But the middle is G10. Same thing as the punch knife. So it's for stabbing. A lot of guys carry them, go through metal detectors, a lot of guys carry them to airports, like these things. I get pictures of these things everywhere. I made it fist-sized so you could punch with it or kind of get a good stab with it if you wanted. You know what I mean? Something I always wanted.

Speaker 3: Smart. Yeah, I have a pencil like that. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Someone gave me. Yep, yep. Okay, so check this out. Here's a bunch of stickers. We make Some of the things that happen on the range blind guys. I always tell them they can't see shit You know how like when you shoot and guys like really push their butt backwards. I call that the prison wallet Showing me your prison wallet, you know what I mean? So there's a lot of stickers are like funny shit I tell guys all the time like a guy will be shooting good all day long and the end of the day He'll fuck something up and I'll just come up All I gotta do is whisper to a guy be like sucks to suck don't it and the guy be like You know what? I mean? So all the stickers are just funny shit that happens on the range, right? And then look this is the premise of the NRA show. We talked about earlier is I made a little card The gun world is sketchy information at best Generally speaking of where your bullets go and why like it's fucking magic. This is about I dominance Now, one side's eye dominance, the other one is how to fix yourself, where the bullets go and why. Make sense?

Speaker 3: Yeah. So, look, this edge... Grip, how you...

Speaker 2: Yeah. So, look, this edge is... Tension on the left hand. Yep. And then, like, you use this edge. So, if your group is generally tall, right, you got stance issues. And then as you see your group, whatever angle it's on, the arrows point to it and tell you how to fix it.

Speaker 3: Interesting.

Speaker 2: Now backside I dominance. This is where the gun world fucks up and I'll tell you this the gun world talks about two things for eyes Primary hand primary eye right-handed right eye dominant, right? They talk about being cross eye dominant right-handed left eye dominant Right, right. Okay Here's how division I think really works, okay Being primary hand primary eye is the guy who makes all the rules in shooting. You should open your eyes You should do this, right? He makes all the rules But the reality is is his vision is his right eye on a scale of one to ten He'll tell you borderline 11 because it's that fucking good You know what? I mean borderline 11 in the good eye ask him the vision in his other eye and he's gonna tell you hard eight It's not really so good Mm-hmm. This guy will always be able to keep the other eye open Yeah, okay now These are the same thing it whether your primary hand primary eye or cross-eyed dominant it's the same thing you have a strong eye and a weak guy and the strong eye takes over doesn't fucking matter strong eye takes over right fucking easy for you okay this is one out of ten the other nine or what I call I neutral right they don't have a dominant eye and either I could take over at any time because either eye on a pistol could see the sights at any time and this is where

Speaker 3: People get fucked up that makes sense with archery to 100% it's the same don't like to keep both eyes open. I tried it

Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that's cuz you're what I would call I neutral

Speaker 3: mmm

Speaker 2: Say what I'm saying And then I would I would also say this if you have a gray hair on your head You're closer to being I neutral than any I dominant any fucking thing because of life right and and the reason I would tell you that is because Because the part of the brain that works the eyes is like the part of the brain that works the ears. It's the part of the brain that works the legs and the arms, right? They work. All these things on your subconscious, I think, work better together and are stronger together. What do I mean by that? You know, you know, when it comes to leg days, dudes are like, dude, man, bro, on a squat 500 on leg day. Okay. Does that mean you can do 250 pounds with one leg? No, you can't probably, right? The legs are stronger together than they are independently, and this is a function of the the the deep part of your brain the fast Part of your brain, right? So having said that you can't choose an ear Kenya, right? The only way you can choose an eye is the eyelid which has nothing to do with vision or dominance

Speaker 3: See what I'm saying make sense I've never heard anybody say that so but now that you're saying it. Yeah, Mike. Okay. Yeah

Speaker 2: So if you look at the card, right if you're like right-handed right eye dominant You should be hitting in the middle of the circle there, right? But if your left eye takes over look where the rounds will go And it'll always be look it'll always be I distance apart on your target So people that have eye issues, they don't shoot one group They shoot two groups one for each eye and the gun goes left eye right left eye right eye

Speaker 3: Evan was telling me that he Learned to practice left-handed a lot. Yeah, and he practices things even those right hand dominant Like help it helped the right side to practice with the left side. Yeah, do you subscribe to that?

Speaker 2: Yes, I do and I'll tell you why before I retired from the army. I tore my bicep out of my out of my left arm I'm left-handed So I went and turned in all my left-handed holsters and got right-handed holsters And I was like, I'm gonna train myself to be right-handed from here forward cuz the VA said I'd never use my left hand again Um, so I was like, okay, fuck you guys. I'll be a righty. You can't slow me down. You know what I mean? And then I started training as a righty Took me about two weeks. I was fucked up is tough You know what? I mean I had to stick with it fucking a lot of Frustrating days and after about two weeks my brain just transferred all that skill to the right hand

Speaker 3: Mmm, and I just fucking rocked it from then on out and then sense because you have this mental memory of excellence with one side

Speaker 2: You just have to well think about this if if you actually knew perfect practice you could switch that to the other hand, right? But if you never knew perfect practice the other hand would get the same garbage, right?

Speaker 3: That makes sense. Yeah So I think completely makes sense and I've never heard anybody say before everybody says you should keep both eyes open

Speaker 2: Well, you should but the guy who made that rule has a strong eye and a weak eye and he can do that Right where you your brain when I say someone is I neutral your brain treats your eyes as equal What does that mean? Your vision could be shit. It could be great. But the brain says I got two windows I look out of this one. Yeah, let me look out of that one and you're going back and forth You'll see the gun move. You'll see the head move and there and then most of the time it just like it's no good

Speaker 3: You're just not seeing it. Good makes sense. It does. Are you one of those guys that resists red dots or do you? I don't give a shit, you know what I mean? But did you ever resist it at all, or did you... Because iron sights never fail you, they're always there, no batteries.

Speaker 2: I am not a red dot guy, I'm an iron sight guy. However, let me explain myself, the internet knows me as a red dot hater, but I'm taking that video and I'm going to draw one line through that red dot back to your face, and if it don't point exactly to your eye, you're shooting and not seeing shit. And every time I show this to somebody, they're like, so you're against red dots. No, you're never going to catch the red doc unless you get better technique and you get

Speaker 3: better technique with iron sights.

Speaker 2: Well, no, you can have good technique with a red dot also if you had fucking good technique and someone showed it to you, but no one shows it to you, right? The next thing with the red dot is the red dot is great for guys who don't see well because Because what happens is the red dot becomes in between you, your eye, and the target. Makes sense essentially? Right? So you'll be able to see that. But what no one tells you is it's harder to learn, harder to master. So you need it, but you need to train with it properly or it's not doing you any good.

Speaker 3: Why is it harder to learn?

Speaker 2: Few reasons. You know, if you look at pro shooters, high level pro shooters, guys that are like fucking and insanely fast, winning, you know, national IPSC champs, Rob Latham, Dave Savigne. You look at these guys, what you'll see is like, they're so much more efficient than anyone else, right? And they'll use a way bigger sight. Like I think the winningest sight of all time in like gun games is, it's like the Seymour STS, but it's like more of the size of a beer can than it is the little tactical sight. So now when you shrink that thing down to a postage stamp, they put a coating on it, so it doesn't fucking reflect or whatever, but you can't see through it well. And they curve the glass, which anyone who shoots rifle scopes will tell you fisheye is a fucking real thing. But this Red Dot has all these things going on and it's supposed to be better for a guy who don't see shit.

Speaker 3: That's interesting.

Speaker 2: And it just becomes harder to do. And then once you show them how to get it right, like, they'll never have problems again.

Speaker 3: But it's all about showing them how to get it right.

Speaker 2: Right, right. And then no one talks about that because they're stuck on you can't use the right eye or they never get past that point.

Speaker 3: How important is it to teach people the right way the first time so they don't have to unlearn shit?

Speaker 2: Man, everyone has a preconceived notion of what they think they should do, whether you've shot before or not, and I'm gonna have to unfuck that. No matter what no matter what so it's like, you know, it's like kind of like in the dojo where it's like, okay I want you to do like 20 good 20 shitty arm bars, and then we'll we'll get the hips better on the next 20 We'll tweak the hand on the next 20 We'll do you know what? I mean like get some of them bulk movements down first, right and then we keep fine-tuning right fine-tuning Yeah, so it doesn't matter if I mean look even if even if you learned how to punch from John Deere Jones on your first day, you wouldn't go out and win a match that night.

Speaker 3: Right.

Speaker 2: You know what I mean? So, I think it's like, I always, I tell people this all the time, 1% better a day. Just 1%, that's what I'm looking for today. If I can be 1% better today than I was yesterday, well that's 365% by the end of the year and I didn't do much every day. Right. You know what I mean? So I always tell people like, shooting or a skill like this is a marathon, not a sprint.

Speaker 3: Right.

Speaker 2: So it's better to-

Speaker 3: That's with everything, right? Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so too. And I tell you, if you think you're gonna have to pull a gun and save your family one day, you should be practicing a few times a week. You know, and it doesn't have to be much, but you should be practicing a little bit. Getting this gun out shouldn't be a shock to you when the time comes, because it's not gonna come to you then.

Speaker 3: Right.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 3: That's great advice.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you enjoy teaching? I fucking love teaching. I love helping people. Now that I'm doing Jits again, A lot of people want me to show them, like, fucking cars and guns and jits and guns, and I don't know if I'm ready to take my sanity pastime and turn it into work. You know what I'm saying? So I play with guns now, and a lot of guys have told me I need to be like, you know, like the car bailouts, like all this shit, like I do. I'm afraid to ruin jujitsu as work. So I've been reluctant. I always tell people I'll never teach jujitsu, but like I fucking teach anyone everything I mean if we can get better today, let's talk about it one thing about teaching jiu-jitsu those

Speaker 3: I think it makes you better at jiu-jitsu. I think it's selfish. I think it's like a good thing for you

Speaker 2: Well, okay, you know this you're a black belt, right? Every day you went to a dojo you were trying to hand that black belt his ass and then you get your black belt And now everyone every day the rest of your life is trying to hand You your ass, you know, I mean, it's a fucking thankless job. Yeah. No, there's no day where no one's trying to hand

Speaker 3: Yeah, fuck. Yeah, let's go. That's the beautiful thing about jiu-jitsu, too I know you don't really yeah, you don't catch any breaks. You might get it one day where there's like

Speaker 2: Oh, there's only blue belts here. I love it when someone forces me into like real survival mode No, I'm not talking about like, you know, you got a triangle and I'm just gonna ride this I'm talking like someone like I'm like fucking I got to do something now. I fucking love that man

Speaker 3: How are you how are you avoiding injuries?

Speaker 2: Okay, so First and foremost I started out. I don't even take Motrin I try to take no drugs after I got off the pills from the VA and started getting active and you know I try not to take any medicines at all I went to master worlds and motherfuckers are yoked up fucking at the gear is out You know what? I mean like these motherfuckers are working out since last year just a fucking stroke of motherfucker today, right? so like I Was a little unprepared this year for worlds in that aspect, but I'm all for the peptides I'm all for the TR. I'm not against any of it per se And and I think that's a I did the peptides I just I'm not I don't I don't like shots like right and I won't give myself a shot

Speaker 3: You were talking about that on Sean Ryan's show. You don't like a deer slipping and piercing your skin.

Speaker 2: Yeah, like, I don't like that. I don't know why, right? Like, I know, I know.

Speaker 3: It's so weird. A guy who's been through everything that you've been through is like, needles, sketch me out.

Speaker 2: I mean, just give it, it doesn't hurt. Like, I'm not a sissy about it, but it's like. Peptides are so easy, though. I know, well, I took the pills. I took the pill ones. PBC-157? Yeah, and I'll tell you, like.

Speaker 3: Super legit.

Speaker 2: What is it, Gary Brekka, that guy? He talks about red-headed people. I'm a red-headed people. I got pale skin, you know red-headed people have better pain tolerance Yeah, I well I take drugs different. I think there's a thing about that though

Speaker 3: You see Google that red-headed people have better pain my whole life

Speaker 2: I've taken drugs differently like I don't get Percocet. I get dilaudid

Speaker 3: So I think like you got roofied like everybody else conked out. Yeah, I'm just in over party mode You're also talking about on Sean's show that you take you have the thing that Jamie has where you could take a lot of edibles And you don't feel it. Oh, yeah, the the weed gummies are look at that And we're some studies have found that redheads have a lower pain threshold, but other studies have found the opposite Oh, okay, so it's all fucked up. Yeah

Speaker 2: Yeah, but um, yeah depends on the individual so but I will tell you this it healed my stomach and my healing went from like a week or two to like

Speaker 3: four days BBC 157 is very legit yeah and so anyway I want to do more in the

Speaker 2: future I'd like to I kind of want to do it all like I mean I'm fucking I'm 54

Speaker 3: man yeah I was asking yeah what are you doing to avoid injuries okay so besides

Speaker 2: that I do cardio a couple years ago my first elk hunt my first elk bow hunt you know we ride up to like 9,000 feet and then like walked up three miles from there like yo I was 280 at one time that was a fucking hell of a walk for a big fat motherfucker up that fucking mountain and then I hunt with these old guys and then the two guys I was with like two of the guys have hearing aids and the other ones right huh from guns I don't know just older yeah yeah they're hunters right yeah so both of them got hearing aids and the front one looks back to the second one both good friends of mine like and was like turn your Hearing aids down so you ain't gotta hear and breathe so fucking loud. I'm like I heard you mother fuck you like So I told myself like I was gonna start walking 30 minutes a day and that was fucking hard And then now I do like an hour cardio. I Could run but I don't But I started again. I need to be running a little bit for cardio. I I treat strength as two different things. I Spent about a year with 15-pound dumbbells, just like rehabbing motion, movement, joints, and it was a lot of fucking pain. And then, you know, now I'm getting stronger every day. I've been, you know, power athlete, big John, but I kind of look at strength two different ways. I try to do strength days where it's like the traditional squats, deads, like all the big ones, push-pulls, all of it, cover it all. And then I see it as conditioning as something separate. Right, and conditioning would be lighter weight, like, CrossFit-like round. Like, without knowing how to say it better. So, but the steps, fuckin', I'm gonna tell you this, I'll tell anybody this. You wanna fuckin' start losin' weight, it starts at 10,000 fuckin' steps a day. Get your ass out there, start fuckin' walkin'. And then the next thing I did is, I went to a competition class by Sean's in Tennessee, I got a diet. I got workouts. I got an app. I tracked my diet. I did right before worlds I was at 170 grams of protein 1800 calories a day Yeah, and I shredded weight I cut I cut down I was probably 240 I cut down to 222 as the smallest human being in the fucking 222 cuz everyone's yoked up like fucking mad man. They probably all cut well my coaches were like, you know And I can't believe I even listen to this, but they're like man. It's the 55 bracket like it's guys like you This is their pastime. You know what I mean today is not the same. Yo these motherfuckers We'll cut this is fucking killer season out at this bitch. You know what I mean like I was unprepared for man I had this big Mongolian motherfucker. You know Edwin Edwin jammy. You know Edwin Edwin Gracie Barra Tarzana California right Edwin's like a jujitsu legend he's at worlds who's your coach I don't fucking have a coach is me my backpack and a gi let's fucking get this fight going bitch and he's like well I'll coach it I'm like okay you know I mean I don't got a coach and then like right before we walk out on the mat he's like yo ref are they the same weight class and I'm like yo my man Ed this is my coach right here my man like you know what I mean but like this dude was fucking huge and he was one of them Mongolian jacket wrestlers you've done Oh, I've seen that I couldn't I couldn't get the takedown and then we went down on the ground He hit me with a like a fucking paper cutter pop my head out tried to choke me again Fucking got out of it. But as I was getting up, I knew I needed to keep this guy in the ground But guess what man when you get in trouble guess what you do You stand the fuck up and this dude stand up and I knew I wasn't getting my two points back And then I was just fucking exhausted like I was fucking so excited to ramp up their conditioning. Yeah, fuck. Yeah, man This year I'm fucking winning where I'm fucking world champion Joe. I'm the toughest old motherfucker. I fucking know, you know, goddamn it Let's fucking go. I'm gonna figure this shit out But I will tell you I think what I didn't know is you got a train to compete to compete Well, and I fucking fight and I want to fight and I want to get smashed and I want to fucking I want to almost Lose this fight ten fucking times to finally get that fucking submission on you And that's a great fight to me and like yo. Yeah. Yeah, you just lost 13 points on that, right? And then if you don't get the submission, you just lost 13 points on that You know what? I mean? Like so it's a it's a different animal treating it like the sport versus

Speaker 3: What you get out of it? Yeah, and I'll tell you this is like I

Speaker 2: Probably could have changed the match if I would have pulled guard around three minutes in I I ain't never pulled guard in my fucking life like what kind of fucking asshole pulls fucking guard well I figured it out. I'll tell you what kind of asshole when you can't take a bigger motherfucker down Yeah, this is maybe what pulling guards for or in the real world walk the fuck away Yeah, before you fucking just get fucking smashed out here. You know what I mean thinking. You're something you ain't

Speaker 3: Do you spend a lot of time practicing off your back a lot of times big guys?

Speaker 2: Don't I'll start there fucking get my neck. Let's go. You can't take I will give you my back just to fucking get out I don't give a fuck I always like honestly when I when I'm like, I'm just at the dojo like girls or smaller people, right? I try not to smash them right and I'll tell them like hey if I get on top just fucking sweep me Right stay on top of me the whole time and I just fucking let him go at me

Speaker 3: Yeah, I would just pretend that I'm weak when I would roll with someone who's weak I would pretend I'm weak like that's I think that's the best way to do it. Yeah, like no strength I'm never gonna use strength. Yeah, I think this Hickson always said that defense was more important than anything He said yeah, I am always safe. No matter where I am. I am always safe defense

Speaker 2: You're fucking a you're Hickson is great. By the way, you see the documentary I have not seen choke, but I just finished his new book though Dark one dark dark Hickson came out with a new book. I just Got Parkinson's now, yeah, but you know, he's got the breathe book, but he just came out with a new one I just listened to it like last week, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3: Yeah, but you gotta watch choke. I got to one of the greatest documentaries of all time. I know I've heard for a martial artist I've heard incredible Hickson in his prime Competing in Japan Valley Tudor and just you see him training and doing his yoga and all the crazy breathing shit where stomach I don't even know how to do that.

Speaker 2: Yeah, he, when he was testing me for my purple belt, he was like, yes, yes, yeah, when I lay on the ground, I am flat. He's like, when you lay on the ground, you are not flat. You should roll more. I'm like, I know you know enough English just to call me fucking fat, you know what I mean? But God damn it. You should roll more. Yeah, I should roll, yeah. And he's showing me like rolls from side control getting out of stuff because I am more around than I am flat And it's kind of like you know fat guy should roll more. It's hard to stop you know right So he had there's some real fucking wisdom in there You know what I mean, but it's like I always like how like they know enough English to insult you But they'll say it like their way. You know yes, you are just being practical. Yeah, yeah, no

Speaker 3: It's just real talk, and that's what he does like yeah, yeah, that guy's pretty cool getting your purple belt from that guy I

Speaker 2: I am the only person so okay. I had to do the paperwork, you know There's other like big-time Hickson black belts out there. They're kind of police up all Everybody so when you go to worlds or you fight, you know Like these guys and they told me they would they'd get me under their paperwork But literally I did the paperwork with IB JJF and I sent it to Hickson and he filled out the paperwork But like I didn't know I sent him the paperwork and it's like one of them forms We just sign it with your finger on your phone like super easy. I sent it to Hicks and I was like, hey coach We got a form. We got a fine sign and he's not he's not a member any of these organizations anymore So like I didn't know how this would go and they're like sent me a fucking paper copy and like have mr Gracie sign this signature, right? So I text it to Hicks and I'm like, hey coach Can you sign my paperwork for worlds real quick? And he texted me right back and he's like, hey champ I'm looking for a printer now as soon as I find one. I'll sign this and I was just thinking Fuck I don't even know who's got a print I don't even have a printer in my fucking house like if Hickson's looking for a printer I think he just told me no you know what I mean like like fuck and then like a couple days later He sent it back to me signed right. I think probably his wife was like Oh Hickson. Yeah I think he kind of didn't know but he got back to me And then they sent me I had to do this a few times and then I was the only guy I'm the only belted guy fighting under Hickson in

Speaker 3: Masters, right? Wow. Yeah, that's pretty fucking cool. Yeah, and then

Speaker 2: I would say this for jiu-jitsu for me is like I'm so glad it is where it is these days cuz back in the day I mean think about this back in the day. I travel all the time. I'm in a different dojo fucking weekly You know, I might be here for four days. I try to get three days of Jits. I'm in fucking Waco. I'm going to fucking places. I've been in 26 different dojos this year, like doing Jits. Back in the day, that was fucking Criante, you know what I mean? Fucking monsters in Portuguese, right? Because you don't have no loyalty. You don't have no fucking, and the reality is like, yeah, I'm just never home. I don't want to be unloyal to anybody. I'm loyal to everybody, but I just want to get rounds, and I'm so glad the jiu-jitsu world is so fucking welcoming these days, meaning I don't have to show up and fight to be here. Right, much more open-minded.

Speaker 3: They're happy to welcome people from other schools.

Speaker 2: It's nice. The only person that was like, why are you here, was Cyborg at Fight Sports. Oh, really? Yeah, you know Cyborg? Yeah, sure, I love him too. He's great. And you know Roosevelt? He's a fucking savage. You know Roosevelt, the tall guy that hangs out with him? I don't. Tallest black belt I ever seen. Tallest Brazilian I ever seen right, so he's one of the black belts down there with with cyborg and I'm out there, and I'm like at the time. I was blue belt You know what I mean, and I was probably I don't know 250 I was kind of fat and like fight sports is like old-school Brazilian jiu-jitsu where we're gonna shrimp across the mat we do fucking all this I don't give a fuck if you lose in jiu-jitsu today, but you're gonna be tough right so it's that kind of shit

Speaker 3: And that's how Carlson Gracie's was yeah. Yeah, you even got to the class you were fucking exhausted

Speaker 2: Yeah, the class hasn't started yet, right, so I'm out on the mat. I'm breathing hard I'm just kind of doing my thing and Roosevelt the big tall black belt comes over and he was like man. He's like you are my inspiration I'm like I am coach. I'm your inspiration. He's like yes. He's like you are out here You are doing this man. He was like you are everyone's inspiration And I'm looking around and like everyone's rolling like and then and then like everyone stops cuz like he's talking to me You know what? I mean? And I know everyone's looking at me and I'm like what in the fuck is going on, right? So he was like you are here. You were doing this you were old. You were my inspiration and I'm like Thanks coach. I was like and then like I didn't need a break, but I was like fuck after that talk Maybe I do need a break. So I was like, maybe I do need a break coach, you know, and he was like, okay fix your key So I fix my gear time my belt. He's like run laps around the practice until you're ready to practice again It was like man, that's fucking worse I wasn't I didn't even need the fucking break and he gave me the old speech So I agreed and then like and then I had a run I thought that was more embarrassing running laps around everybody Right, but like like when he said he wanted to give me a break like the fucking break says like screech to a halt Everybody was like did he just say does that guy what the fuck does that guy get a break? You know and I mean a break was do laps. Yeah, and yeah, and then hidden cyborg came up to me and They didn't I didn't have a gi yet I hadn't bought a gi and I hadn't found a gi that fit me so I Had I just bought a gi, but I only had a white belt right? Oh, I got the gi at Gracie Raleigh my home dojo right and then they only had a white belt So I had a white belt so I was white belt in it, but really I was a blue belt So and when it came to rolling cyborg is like, who are you man? I'm like coach and he's like, who are you man? Who are you? Yeah, he's like, why are you here? And I'm like, I just I just well My brother lives here coach and I called ahead of time and I asked if I could come do jiu-jitsu I'm just trying to get a couple days while I'm on the road. He's like man. You are no white belt. Who are you? What are you doing here? And I was like, well, I'm actually a blue belt coach and he was like Why didn't you and then they got a wall of like old belts, which is like the coolest thing. I ever fucking seen like 100 just old different all kinds of belts. It's fucking cool as fuck my opinion But he was like, why didn't you get one off the extra belts? And I was like, well, you didn't have one coach and he looked he thinks for a second. He was like you are right There's not one your size on the wall and I was like, holy fuck There's a ton of belts there for him to even know that Like because I went through all of them and couldn't fit one, you know, and he was like, okay

Speaker 3: So he was just concerned you were sandbag and or trying to get yeah, I don't know

Speaker 2: Yeah, and then but they were great with me like shout out to cyborg and Roosevelt hard dudes. Yeah, they're fucking they're hard down there Yeah, but I've been in 26. I think 26 dojos this year. That's wild. And then so you're all in I'm all in man I'm in I'm in all the time and then like so one of the things is like I can only go to Hickson to get promoted because I'm never in one dojo long enough to like earn a stripe or earn a... so I think it's like a I don't know I feel like I'm fortunate of where I am you know what I mean and then honestly the reason I went to Hickson is because I could yeah and I figured if if I need to be tested for a belt yeah like who else should test me you know what I mean. When you get your black

Speaker 3: belt you get a black belt from Hickson it's like there's very few black belts That hold that kind of weight. Yeah, there's like Enzo. Yeah. Yeah, Jean-Jacques Machado There's a few of those like old school legendary belts. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck. Yeah, it's on Diaz. It's like Legendary old school belts, you know, yeah, it's our Hagen. Yeah Hagen. Yeah. Yeah. I love you. I know I love I actually was Higgins Corner guy when he was in Abu Dhabi in 2003. I was you were yelling his timeout Yeah, cuz I was there at Eddie Bravo. Oh, yeah, that's right. You know, we're all trained in the Machado So I know Hagen and then he was like my friend do do the time for me And so like he was like he was kind of out of shape. He's still fucking people up Yeah But he wanted to know like give me tell me when there's like a minute to go It's like I really fucking hit the gas like I'm gonna coast for a little bit Decide when to go. Yeah, I love it

Speaker 2: I call it like I call it fat guy jujitsu and I think people are shocked when I say that term But really it's it's like the I don't know the Dan or her ageless stuff There's there's stuff that bigger guys left athletic We are gonna have to do because they can't do a flying whatever they can't you know what I mean? And like I love his smash game and I so I was at a I went to the Machado camp It was him Roger Carlos and John John Machado. I love that guy, too You know John sure he carries he carries condom holsters nice. Yeah, he's great, man But I went to their summer camp and I was like hey Can I get a picture and like he's sitting on the couch and Carlos is like, you know Typical bigger brother should get the fuck up. You're lazy kind of dog So I was like I was like, you don't have to get up coach. So I sat on his lap And he was like, what the fuck?

Speaker 3: That's hilarious.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I went to a Machado camp this year. I spent a lot of time with Rafael Lovato. I love that dude. That guy's a fucking legend. Yeah, he is, he is. I got invited to Felipe Acosta's kind of an affiliate training with Rafael. Like, shout out to Rafael. He's a fucking amazing. Every one of his black belts gave me time. like and then Philippe Acosta like just fucking next level and and it like it gives me hope as an old guy like I know I'm 55 and I know I want to win the fucking 55 year old bracket but why the fuck do I need to be in the 55 year old bracket you know what I mean if my jujitsu is good enough I should be able to fight anyone right and that's what gives me hope of fucking carrying on that one day like because I know all I do is fight these young guys and yeah Sure, they beat me right now. But like, you know, how many times did helio get crushed? Right? You know what I'm saying? So like it's the beauty of jiu-jitsu is the age should be fucking the least in this equation, you know So that's kind of where I stand and I'll tell you man Anytime someone can fucking put it to me where I'm about to go down. I couldn't be fucking happier, man I had this black belt the other day out of nowhere Just fucking smash me and like and then he lets and I tap he lets me up and none Just got the biggest smile on my face, and he was like Looking at me, and I was like that was fucking amazing coach I was like you ain't never smashed me like that right and he he's just kind of looking at me I just fucking tackled him again Fucking went right back to smashing me. You know what I mean like I just love it, man Yeah, the best attitude for learning. Yeah, no better. Well, I as a human being I need to learn something every day I think you're the same way in a lot of ways like I don't care what it is good for you Yeah, I do too. I think it keeps your brain healthy 100% I think it keeps Alzheimer fucking all that bullshit away

Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's why people get old. It's one of the reasons other than your body failing is your mind gets old Yeah, you're not stimulating it. Yeah for real, right John. This is a fucking awesome conversation. Thanks. I really appreciate it Yeah, I had a great time. Yeah. Thank you. And I can't wait to read your book. So, okay

Speaker 2: I'm gonna get some rounds in the future. Yeah, you're healthy. Yes. All right I'd love to get some rounds with you. Sure. I definitely want to come back kill Tony last night Fucking a man. It's like bucket list. You can come to the club anytime you want man I couldn't thank you enough like I know I came here yesterday Not a big deal to me right cuz like yo, I got killed Tony out of this deal like last night was fucking funny man this guy told a joke last night the funniest fucking joke I think I ever heard in my life I don't know if I could say it or not there was like there was a guy just kind of a shorter guy white guy beard and he just read jokes he just said like random Joe was one of the bucket pulls yeah there's a bucket full guy and then like he said this joke you want to hear Sure. Okay. This is the fucking funniest thing I heard in a long time. Why don't police have turtles as pets? Why?

Speaker 1: Because you can't kneel on their neck.

Speaker 2: I was like, oh my fucking God, like next level right there.

Speaker 3: Well listen brother, anytime you want to come to the club, more than welcome. Thank you very much for being here. Oh man, anytime man. It was a great conversation. I really enjoyed it. Thanks for all the swag. Thanks for letting me hold the evil hat.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Well, I got to put it back in its box.

Speaker 3: If people want to find you online, sheriffofbagdad.com.

Speaker 2: Sheriff of Baghdad, SOB Tactical, either one will get you to me. Like, you just, you type in Sheriff of Baghdad and a ton of shit of me pops up.

Speaker 3: And someone, whoever the publisher is, hop on it. Yeah, hit me up. I'm sure that book's insane. All right. Thank you very much, brother. Appreciate you. All right, bye everybody. .