Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Bookends YouTube channel. Today we have another video where we just explain our job. But I think we're phrasing it in a good way today. So a couple weeks ago we did some videos on what agents bring to the table and we wanted to talk a little bit today about how we view our job in terms of building writing careers. So when people think of literary agents, I think not much goes beyond, they're going to sell my book. So we wanted to talk a little bit about the things that we do beyond that to help you forge a path and make a career in publishing beyond just that first book.

Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes there's also a rhetoric that goes on that you don't need a literary agent, they're a waste of time, they're a waste of your money. They don't do anything that you can't do, especially if you somehow manage to connect with a publisher who makes an offer directly. And we're here to tell you there's a lot more that we do than just, you know, even negotiate the contract. You know, sometimes there's a conversation about just get a lawyer. Well, that's all well and good. Everybody should follow their career path their way. But we're here to sort of give more details on what a literary agent does beyond those things that those simple things that it's assumed we do.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's a good place to start in terms of a lawyer or what you can do on your own. I think there's one very clear, perhaps umbrella category of a difference that we're doing. And it's that we're constantly engaging with the market in a number of different ways. So I think that's the first thing to know is that an agent is somebody whose full time job is to engage with the literary market for whatever genre, whatever age group, whatever format. But with that comes a whole set of expertise that you or a literary lawyer might not have. Right, right. So the first one, the first way that I think we're doing that is we're constantly reading. Most literary agents join this field and take up this job because we're readers and we love books and we want to work with them. And most literary agents are reading new books that are coming out every year very frequently, whether they edited them, they sold them, or they are just picking them up as a reader. And when we're doing that, it goes a little beyond just reading a book for fun, at least for I know we both do it, but I don't know about other agents, but we're reading. It's not just that was a great book. I loved it. It's oh, it's sold to that person at that publisher. And this is how they did the cover. And this was how they wrote the cover copy. And this is who they got to blurb it. There's so much that we're thinking, even if it's subconscious, that we're thinking every single time we're reading a book, that was an interesting editing choice or what a great plot twist. All of those things that we're doing subconsciously, consciously while we're reading will in turn benefit all of our clients.

Speaker 2: And we're also reading. I mean, we're reading for pleasure all the time. We're reading books that we didn't work on just because we love to read. But there is also definitely an aspect of our job that is reading books that we feel we have to, you know, Finlay Donovan was a book that was talked about a lot in the past year. You talked about it. Amanda talked about it. Editors were talking about it. It was not necessarily a book I would have typically picked up, but because everybody was talking about it and because it was very much in the vein of a lot of what my current authors write, I felt the need to pick it up. The other thing I will often do is if there is a book that a lot of people are talking about, I might not go out and buy and read the whole book, but I will get my hands on it to read enough of it to have a working knowledge of what's the voice, what's the style of writing, what about this book is making editors and agents want more of this type of book so that I have a solid understanding of the market, not just the titles of the books, but a solid understanding of what that voice is that people are now reading.

Speaker 1: And coincidentally, that's how I justify DNFing every book I DNF. It's like I got a good sense. I feel comfortable that I know that book. And if someone asks me, have you read it? I will say yes, because I get it.

Speaker 2: I strongly believe that you don't have to finish a book to have read the book. I really believe that if you know the book and you've you know, I don't think we all need to. First of all, even just as readers, there are way too many books out there that give us joy that we should never be forcing ourself to finish something that is no longer giving us joy. Sometimes a book will have served its purpose for us halfway through where we feel like we've gotten enough out of it. We don't need to finish it. And I think that's good enough. And I think but yes, there's definitely times and there are definitely times I'm checking out books that I really don't have a desire to read, but I feel like I need a working knowledge of as an agent.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Even just to leaf through, it's helpful. The second thing we're doing, which I know we've talked about ad nauseum on our channel, is we're constantly in communication with editors, whether it's through our submissions or having conversations about what they're looking for, taking them out to lunch or vice versa, or meeting them at a conference, on a Zoom, watching them on a panel, anything. We are constantly doing those things and putting ourselves in the rooms with people that are buying books that we hope to sell to, which is something that most authors and most literary lawyers, if not all, are not able or doing in general.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I mean, I guess I don't have a full understanding of the day to day of a literary lawyer, but they tend not to be doing a lot of submissions. Right. So they tend not to be in regular contact with the number of editors we are consistently in regular contact with, even if it's just around, you know, I am in the middle of completing a round of submissions and every every engagement with each editor is also an expansion of my knowledge of them. What are you looking for? Oh, I see why you didn't like this, perhaps. And that gives me insight into what you do and don't like about books or what you're seeking. I mean, it's kind of funny how an editor can pass on something with somewhat innocuous rejection letter, but we as agents pick up on, oh, OK, there's something in that letter that might not have anything to do with the author of the book, but I now have an understanding for future submissions of whether or not this editor will be right for other similar things or sometimes my projects at all. Sometimes there are editors that we just do not connect with. They have a very specific voice or style they're looking for, and it is very different from the voice or style I'm looking for. And I know the other day you had said there's an editor out there who you seem to have the exact same taste with because the editor is connecting with everything you're sending.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good feeling. But I think that was such a good point. I didn't think of there's even if it's, again, subconscious, but we're getting those passes. It's signaling to us that we're not on the right path. And the more times we do it, the more it just becomes an instinct for us. And over two, three, four, five, ten, twenty years, it's like we can make a sub list like that. We go to like that.

Speaker 2: That's a really good point. Yeah, and it's also it gets very specific and detailed, too. It's not just like, oh, this editor loves contemporary romance or this editor loves women's fiction. I had a pass recently on a project where the editor didn't feel the romance in a portion of the book played out enough. And my thought was because it was never meant to be a romance, like that was never a giant piece of the book. But in my head now, I'm like, OK, that editor wants strong romance elements in the books that they take on. So I'm going to keep that in mind, depending on what type of submission I'm going out.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And even on a more specific level, this person was born and raised in Seattle. This person loves to, I don't know, fish. This person, this is their favorite food. We learn these things the more that we're submitting and the more we're meeting with these folks. So we end up having all of this knowledge about people that other people

Speaker 2: won't have. Yeah, I have a romance editor, an editor who does a lot of romance. Other things as well, who I know likes really upmarket flowery writing in her romances in a way that I know other editors don't necessarily. So it's a style of writing that I know that she really gravitates towards.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And I also think another way that that's done is we're when we're selling books to these editors, we're doing it editorially, too. So we're seeing not only what book they like, but how are they editing that book? What are the things that are changing in that book according really according to their tastes? How are they speaking to our clients? What are some things that they might compare the book to? All of that is super helpful for understanding their tastes in addition to like all of the story work that we're doing as agents, learning what's making stories tick right now, what's working in the marketplace, what publishers and editors are shying away from. So it's all very hand in hand, both talking to editors and watching them work. We learn so much about the market and also about the people that are making the market.

Speaker 2: Yeah, we may have touched on this in the last video. I'm sure we have. But my mind is a sieve, so we'll do it again. Also, editorial part of our job is it doesn't always happen. So don't sometimes I worry sometimes we say things here and everybody gets upset if this didn't their path didn't lead this way. But sometimes prior to getting an offer from a publisher, we'll have phone calls with the editors and the author will say to me, well, what should I expect? What's going to happen? I said, really, not a lot. We're just going to get a sense for what they want, what they need. But part of my from my experience in those phone calls is to really hear what the editor is saying in terms of does this feel like a good fit for this author in terms of what they're asking for or their vision for the book or their excitement and their enthusiasm? And how does it compare to other editors? And I can have an understanding of that because I've had enough of those phone calls. And then I also know enough, not just about the editor, but also about the publisher. So how when one publisher presents something that sounds really fantastic to the author, it can be like that's pretty much their standard or something like that, because I've been on the phone calls.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And we actually don't have this on our list. But your point kind of dovetails into it really well. But the strategy of submitting the strategy now we talk about negotiating a lot. And I know that there's we have another video planned for that. But the strategy of knowing who to submit to, when to submit to them, how to submit to them, you know what to tell them in the middle of a submission when there's interest. All of that are things that we learn on the job and it's experience that we have. And we accumulate in all of the books that we sell. We learn new things and how to speak to editors and how to handle a potential sale differently every single time.

Speaker 2: But also publishing strategy. Yeah. I mean, so often the publisher will come forward and say, we want to move this book to this pub date or we're looking at this pub date and we can have a really honest conversation of that's great. That's not good. And those things have changed. You know, great pub dates 20 years ago are not the same as a great pub date now.

Speaker 1: Even three years ago.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Even a few years ago. And then and we also from conversations with editors about pub dates, we know what that looks like. But also it allows us to have conversation in-house here and say, hey, what are everybody's thoughts? What are your experiences from talking to editors on this particular particular thing the publisher is asking?

Speaker 1: Yeah. And for the record, that also goes for cover, cover, copy and our next category, which is marketing and publicity, knowing what one publisher does, what has been successful for a certain genre or age format, suggestions that we can make for your marketing plan or questions that you should be asking or things you can be doing to support your publisher. All of that is super important and something that an agent brings to the table because that marketing and publicity helps you get your books out there, which is a huge part of building your career beyond the first book. Getting the book in the hands of readers, having people fall in love with it is a huge part of building a career.

Speaker 2: And also this wasn't on this, but the marketing conversation made me think about a reality check, both good and bad. You know, I think it's really easy for authors to get caught up in, well, this author had this and if I don't have this, I'm going to fail or everybody I know is doing this. So I should be doing that, too. And we can have a real honest conversation of that actually doesn't work or that worked a few years ago. And I know it worked well for you then, but I think it's a waste of your time and money now. You know, I've had so many conversations from a marketing perspective with clients where I said, if you really want to do that because it brings you joy, go ahead. But I can't promise the amount of time and energy and money you're going to put into it are going to equal themselves out in sales. But again, joy is a huge piece of it. So if it brings you joy, go for it. But if you're seeking something big out of it, I don't think that's the right route. And those are conversations we have to. And then publishers suggest things that don't sound exciting to the author. We're like, oh, now that's great.

Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think comparison in general, how many people compare their cover to somebody else's cover, their career path to somebody else's, their advanced size to somebody else's. It's important for agents to have a good sense of what other people are getting and what other people are doing in order to know, like, hey, you're doing fine, like you are on the right track. And I think a lot of people can lose sight of that, myself included, probably. And it's important to have somebody who is engaging with the market that can say, chill. Like our job is to kind of be a vessel for other people's experiences in this industry, knowing what people are doing, knowing the strategies so that we can help you have a better, stronger career and be a better, well-rounded agent for you.

Speaker 2: You know, and with that in mind, something else that popped into my head is our relationship with editors. You know, I think that we have built relationships with editors and have a way to talk to them when things are going south or when things are great. And we can very honestly say, hey, you know, let's really dig down deep, you know, very casually. I don't you know, we know each other. So you know where I'm coming from. I know where you're coming from. I just closed a deal. And part of the negotiation was I was working in conjunction with the offering editor to try to see what do you need from me so that we can get this deal up. And we were getting on the phone and being like, I think if you can get me this and we can do this, I think I can get you what you're looking for. And those are things that work because of our long term relationship.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all like our experience and our name and our reputation goes a long way.

Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Speaker 1: So I think we were not very thorough in preparing this video now that I look back on it because we kept adding stuff, but I think we're very thorough now at the end of our

Speaker 2: video. Yes, we just sold ourselves. I hope we sold ourselves to you.

Speaker 1: I hope it was helpful. If you have any questions or there are things that you think we missed from maybe working with your own agent, put them down below for other viewers. But don't forget to like and subscribe and we'll see you back here next week.