Speaker 1: My goal is to have the students become people who can analyze policy, who can consider data, who can consider perspectives from other people in their environment and to argue with those people. So if I construct classes where all they do is watch me do the work, I have in effect reduced their opportunity to learn to being spectators. So the main argument for finding ways to make classes more interactive is to keep in mind that we can't do the learning for our students. But it's important to notice that one way to elicit comments from students is to structure strategically throughout the lecture moments where there's a clear question and they're supposed to talk to people around them. Two things that seem important about that include, they're primed because they've already been talking about the very thing I'm asking them to say again. So it's not a new task. It's not so scary. They've just been talking about that. The second thing is that they don't really have to take the risk that they're representing only their own thinking because typically the move they make in response to that question will be to say, in our group we said blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, which shares the ownership of the point and makes it a little bit safer. So let's look at the AYP formula in Michigan. By formula this means the plan, the state. Now remember how every state has to design this? So here's the Michigan plan. So remember that by 2014 every student is supposed to be achieving, every single student is supposed to achieve at high levels of proficiency in reading and mathematics. So here's the English language arts or reading literacy goal in Michigan. Just stare at this for a minute. This shows from 2005 to 2014 the standard that the state has set for itself to make adequate yearly progress so that it can reach in this state that 100% of Michigan students would be at the high proficiency levels in reading in elementary and in middle school. So just take a moment, chat with somebody nearby, and just see what stands out to you about this plan. In dealing with large classes, one of the levers you have as an instructor is what the questions are you pose to the class, what tasks you frame, for instance. So that decision to use that chart and to ask that question is an example of something that mediates a challenge, which is how do you get them thinking about that. Suppose I had put up that chart and started to just make comments about it. The likelihood that they might be shopping online or simply writing down what I was saying would be much greater. Another is being able to learn to see the class. I have to be able to see the students to have a sense about what people are doing. And, in fact, that's another one of the means of engaging them is that when they see me making more eye contact, they're aware that it is more interactive. They begin to feel pulled in and are less aware that they're sitting in a room with 500 people. Another challenge is being willing to wait. So if I ask a question, what patterns do you see in this table, not only do I have to look around the room in order to con people who are not right in front of me, I have to wait a little bit, and it always pays off. If you wait, even wait a little bit uncomfortably long, more and more hands will start going up. If necessary, you can always say, I'm waiting to see a few more people. I'm interested in hearing what other people might think about this, so if you still need another minute to think, I'll wait another moment. It can be very straightforward. It doesn't have to be funny. It doesn't have to be pushy. And hands will go up.

Speaker 2: What thoughts? Yeah, other things.

Speaker 3: We were just saying how ridiculous it is that the first three years, it makes sense that it's all the same, but then in 2011 and 2012, they just made this huge jump of 10% and 10%, and it just seems very unpractical, and I don't know how you can expect the schools to all of a sudden just jump like that.

Speaker 1: So what you're noticing is very level at the beginning and then extremely steep expectations near the end of the period.

Speaker 2: What thoughts? Yeah, other things.

Speaker 4: I think they're just really unrealistic goals at the end because they want to make the goals that is set out by the government, and then once, because they say there's a two-year probationary period, so at the end of the time, it doesn't really matter, right, because the NCLB is done. So there's no consequences really for not achieving those really ridiculous high goals.

Speaker 1: You've said a couple of things. One, mainly you're saying it seems unrealistic, and what seems unrealistic to you about it?

Speaker 4: Not only the jump, but having 100% be proficient.

Speaker 1: Well, what would you say? Do a lot of you think that, that it just looks unrealistic that so much change can happen so rapidly? If you want to get students to talk in class, it's useful to choose tasks where there's some reason to have a discussion about them. Asking people for something where there's a single answer wouldn't be reasonable then to have people talk in their groups. I think the questions posed ought to profit from talking to your neighbor. Your neighbor might say something different than you were thinking. We make a big point at Michigan about the value of diversity, and as I see it as an instructor, one of the values of diversity is that people who bring different kinds of experience, perspectives, knowledge are going to see things in response to the content and do things differently than others in the class. And the instructor can't do that all by himself or herself. So posing tasks that profit from diverse perspectives, whether it's a math class or a public policy class, enables students to have access in a systematic way to some of the ways of thinking and perspectives that their classmates have. So I try to design questions that will, I think, elicit some of those differences and permit us to have a discussion. Does anyone have a different view who might argue that that makes sense, that the steeper climb is at the end of the period? Is there any argument? Can you imagine a way to argue? I mean, obviously anyone who saw this, any policymaker, must have noticed that. What might have been the argument for making it steep like that near the end?

Speaker 5: Well, setting up the building blocks would be the hardest part, and so that would take a couple years for the schools to get acclimated to that. And so once those are in place, then it's easier for the schools to go in the right direction.

Speaker 1: I have in mind exactly what we're going to do in class. I had it in mind what the goal was, what I wanted the students to get out of it, and I was prepared to say more of it if I needed to or to have them say more of it. So you'll notice that after comments students make, I often what's called revoice or restate what they've said. Sometimes I change it slightly because I'm actually trying for the record to say things in the way that I actually want to make sure we've agreed to be said. So did people hear that? It's the idea that you would set up the building blocks early in the reform period. Those might include professional development for teachers or learning how to do the testing or getting the systems in place, orienting oneself more around this every-child agenda, whereby near the end of the period it would be possible to make more rapid progress. Does anyone have any other reason why they think policymakers might have staged it in this way? But I have in mind that we're covering a certain amount of material in class, and I don't feel at risk for not covering it. And so I've structured the task so we can cover that. I could have just lectured about that. It wouldn't have taken that much less time. But we're effectively doing the work together. So I would advise starting small. If you're comfortable delivering well-developed lectures, I would think, is there a point in my lecture where I can stop to pose a question, ask students to talk about it with their neighbor, and maybe not even elicit yet. Maybe just say, I'm guessing if this is like other lectures I've taught, that here's a range of five things that came up in your small group discussions. Put them on a slide and say, was there anything that came up in anybody's group that's not one of those? Another advice I'd give is spend the time to figure out your questions in advance rather than trying to make them up on a fly, because it's the questions that precipitate better active work by the students. And asking a poorly posed question often won't produce very useful material that you can then use from the students. Thank you.