Speaker 1: Let's talk about employees. This dovetails with cultural considerations. Employees speaking to each other about the interviews. So I think we, as American lawyers, go to great lengths to tell employees that the investigation is confidential. To maintain the integrity of the investigation, you really can't talk to other people either about the substance or even about the fact that you're being interviewed. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. And so I'm curious, Matt, as to if you have any practical tips on preventing people or persuading people that this really is important and we mean it and you really shouldn't talk to each other.

Speaker 2: Yeah. It's hard. And I think often, no matter how hard you try, people want to talk and they're in the office together and they share a cubicle and it is hard to prevent that. But I think one thing that can help is making sure you have the buy-in of the in-house stakeholders who the managers of those particular witnesses to make sure that you're not the only person communicating that it's important to maintain confidentiality. I think the other thing that's important is to make sure that you reiterate the importance of confidentiality repeatedly. When you first schedule the interview, at the beginning of the interview, a reminder at the end of the interview, I think people often do want to be good corporate citizens and want to cooperate, but they do need those regular reminders. And I often think it is better, if you can, to give people a warning about when the interview is and maybe what it's about, depending on the circumstances. But there are instances where you may need to make a different strategic decision and you might want to schedule the interviews as more of a surprise or stage the interviews in a way that you really can protect that confidential information and prevent it from getting leaked.

Speaker 1: Right. You need to assume that there's a high likelihood that they are going to talk and then plan accordingly. Yeah. Right. It depends on the circumstance, but yeah. Yeah. And so, Nick, I'm sure you've run into this as well, people talking to each other. I'm interested in any techniques you have, and also within the company, do you typically take employment action against people who do violate that mandate to not talk to each other?

Speaker 3: So, I think there's kind of two sets. There's the set where we've notified someone that they're going to be interviewed or we'd like to ask them questions, and at that point, even if we say, this is confidential, please don't share the fact that we're conducting this interview, often that's the time when people flip this to their manager or someone else and say, do you know what this is? And sometimes we're investigating the manager, right? We don't really want that. I have not been able to figure out how to stop that one. Afterwards, after we have an interview and we reiterate that it's really important to maintain integrity of the investigation not to communicate about this, I find that having a constant communication with the person, even if there's no real update, keeps them engaged with us. Because if we leave them alone and some time passes, and especially if they ask what's going on with this, I get the sense that they're getting sort of antsy about it and they may start to talk. And I may hear from other people that there's some buzz on the floor or something. So in that case, my tip is, if it's really a tip, is to just really try and maintain touch points. Even if there's not much to report, keep them engaged. If you're still working on the investigation, you're talking to other people, at least keep them included. But it's difficult. As far as the second part of the question about disciplinary action, until recently we weren't so sure that we were able to do that. With the new NLRB, we feel like we can, but we do not have a policy on it. I think right now it's probably too early to make one. We'll probably go case by case. I can see a day for sure that we will say, you've really impacted the investigation. We told you not to, and we're allowed to take disciplinary action, and we will. I can see that day coming. I think in the first instance we're still kind of figuring that out. We don't have a written policy about that, at least not yet.

Speaker 1: And it depends so much on the degree of the communication, I have found, as to whether you would even go down that road of taking action. If people are just talking about the fact that they were interviewed, it's so different from really, after the interview, going to another person and saying, here's what they asked me, here's what I told them. That really obstructs the investigation. Let's get our story straight. Yeah, exactly. Circle the wagons.

Speaker 2: Have you guys encountered the opposite scenario, where the witness asks you to maintain confidentiality and how you deal with that? I think that's a tricky question when you get sometimes an interview of someone, really You find someone who wants to talk to you, but says, can we go off the record, or can I tell you something, please don't tell anybody else.

Speaker 1: Right. So I have encountered that, and it's very difficult. The approach that I've taken is, I can say, well, I will not report what you tell me to your manager or the, let's say, the general manager of the site, your boss in your locale. But my client is the company, and I have to report what you tell me to the chief compliance officer. And so I cannot guarantee that I won't communicate that information to him or her.

Speaker 3: I'm in a different situation, of course, being in-house, but I think that's a really great opportunity for us in-house to help deliver a message about what an effective compliance program looks like. When somebody says they're concerned about speaking or they don't want to be associated with it, I really try and talk about an anti-retaliation policy, what an effective compliance program looks like, how we want a culture where people will feel comfortable speaking up. And that if they're not comfortable, I can appreciate that, and I can try to protect them, but sometimes I can't. There are certain things that people will talk about that I don't have the ability to just keep confidential. But I do really think when that happens, it's a chance to explain who we are, the kind of company we're trying to be and build, and that non-retaliation kind of culture.