Speaker 1: The final question I have for you that I think everybody's asking, where do you find good board members? Well, that is a great question. And that is also one of the big questions that people ask. And my best advice is get more volunteers involved on your committees. Some committees, like your governance committee and your finance committee, you probably want to be mainly board members. But if you have a development committee, which I hope every organization has, a marketing committee, or maybe you call it a public relations committee, maybe you have a membership committee if you're a membership organization, get people on those committees that are not board members. Sometimes when I start working with a client, I ask them, do you have a development committee? And I hear, yeah, we have two or three board members who said they'd work on fundraising but they haven't done anything. Well, two or three board members is not a committee. And if I have time, I have a perfect example of an organization that really turned themselves around when I started working with them. It was an agency that served people with developmental disabilities. And they had, I think it was eight board members, or I think it was eight or nine. And every single board member was a relative of somebody that they served in their programs, which I thought was really a little bit scary because they were more interested in the welfare of their child or their sister or brother than they were maybe in the organization. And I knew they, I said, frankly, what you should do is fire this whole board and start all over again, but that's not very politically smart to do that. Also, where do you start? So I said, let's start a very active and strong development committee. Well, no one on their board knew anything about fundraising. Also no one knew anything about finances. In fact, it turned out that their executive director had been embezzling money and they didn't know it because nobody on their board knew how to read a financial statement. So then that executive was left go and a new one was brought on. And that's when we decided to start this development committee. So two of the board members said, well, we don't know anything about fundraising, but we're willing to learn. So we'll serve on this committee. So those two board members and a couple of staff people and I sat down and I said, okay, who do we know that is in the community that might have some skills that we need on a development committee? Well, it happened that one of them was good friends with an estate planning attorney. Well, boy, we grabbed him right away. And we, and one of them said, well, I could ask my stockbroker. And it turned out her stockbroker was the vice president of the largest firm in the county that she lived. And we had a number of other people representing the community. And within a year, this development committee for an organization that had never done fundraising, they were doing planned giving seminars with the estate planning attorney. They were actually gearing up for a capital campaign. They planned a big successful special event. And they started an annual giving program, a staff giving program, a board giving program. And at the end of the year, when it came time to elect new board members, they were already identifying these people and said, gosh, we need to get some of those people from the development committee on our board. And within a couple of years, they went from a board of eight to a board of about 21. And they had this vice president of the stockbroker firm on their board. They had the estate planning attorney on their board. They had a former mayor of the city on their board. And now they were really, really becoming strong, active board. But it was all because of the strong committee structure that we put in place. So I think that's the best place is look at the committees or even your volunteers who maybe aren't on a standing committee, but maybe they serve. I'm a big proponent of getting volunteers involved in your fundraising. So you want to get people on your board who like to do fundraising. So get some of the volunteers who perhaps have worked at your special event or have helped with your annual campaign or maybe have worked on a capital campaign that you've done. I've seen a lot of I do a lot of capital campaigns. And I've seen a lot of people then move on to a board of an organization after they've volunteered for a capital campaign. So that's the best place to get board members. And of course, you always want to be asking for referrals from other board members and even from your staff. This organization, when they started out, the staff contributed a bunch of names to this development committee, but they didn't think they had any control over who was on the board. But they have sometimes good recommendations from the board.