Speaker 1: Hello all, this is Dr. DeMaslach talking to you about Reciprocity.com, the E is written with a three. And in this particular video, I want to talk to you about how to actually get IRB approval on research. And if you don't know me, I'm an Associate Professor of Innovation Strategy and Entrepreneurship, and I created this whole Reciprocity project to give back as much as I possibly can. There's so many people that helped me out that I want to pay the favor for it and help you out. So I created this sharing economy editing platform, you can check that out. That's what reciprocity.com is a bunch of stuff on the blog as well and all these YouTube videos. So how do you actually get IRB approval on research? This is really just practical advice and sort of things that I've learned along the way and other people have learned along the way that I've sort of absorbed from other people. So what is Institutional Review Board approval? So in different countries, it's called different things. In the United States, it's called IRB, Institutional Review Board approval. And then when I was in Canada, that's where I did my PhD, it was ethics approval. Basically the same thing, really what all research has to be approved by the university and by lawyers of the university to make sure that in legal staff and regulatory staff and all that kind of stuff, like a whole bunch of people go through this stuff. And what they're looking for is to protect not only university, but yourself, and as well as protect the people that the research is being performed on or the animals that the research is being performed on. So it's really important for a number of different ways. And they're not just looking out for the university, they're looking out for yourself. So if you do something less dicey, then you're likely going to run into problems in the future. So you can be a legal concern for yourself, somebody might sue you. Not only that, I mean, that's just like the bare minimum. But the other thing is you actually do some real harm to people. And then you're going to have a bunch of psychological issues that you have to deal with yourself in terms of this harm that you've done. So as a researcher, it's not just the fact that you're doing research on other people and that you're not going to be affected by this, personally affected by this. You are going to be affected by a lot of this stuff emotionally, cognitively, all that kind of stuff. So you'd be really careful in terms of what you're doing and really what the Institutional Review Board does and what the ethics board does is that they're just making sure that everything is okay in terms of the protocol that you're doing. It's the best available protocol that you can possibly do with what you're doing. And you're not likely to cause any more too much harm than what is needed for the research that is being done. There's a bunch of technical terms and all that kind of stuff. I'm not going to get into it. That's not my job in terms of understanding all the technical terms and stuff like this. My job is to be a researcher and sort of look at how to actually do credible and good research. We do take courses on all this kind of stuff. And if you are doing the IRB approval, make sure you do go take your courses in the U.S. or it's called the CD course. So you have to take that. And it is really good, actually. It's pretty interesting to find out all about this kind of stuff because people in the past have done dicey stuff. And I'm sure 30 years from now, other people are going to say the stuff we're doing right now is dicey in the terms of, you know, that it just is not the best available at that time. It doesn't mean that it is not the best available right now. It means that, you know, 30 years from now, it might not be the best available technique or sort of making it less sort of risky for everybody. Right. So and to know to make sure that everybody is well informed with the process. Right. So you don't want to be doing anything really deceitful or anything like that to anybody that's, you know, that's taking a deep dive into it. So, again, I'm not legal staff and, you know, I'm not university staff at your university. So make sure you do go talk to them. And this is what actually these tips are all going to be about is a lot of things like this. So in terms of, you know, getting ethics or IRB approval, I would what I would do is look at what other previous applicants have done. Applications have done to get approval. Sometimes you can get that from other your colleagues or something like that. You can also learn a tremendous amount from these these previous applications. You just go and sort of see what they're doing. Often a lot of the, you know, not directly in any sort of way, but you can copy this sort of format of what they're doing. Not like copy as in like, you know, cut and paste. But what you can do is look to see what they are doing and sort of what they are recalling in these previous applications and sort of mimic it as much as you possibly can. That's a better word is mimicking of what people have done in order to get a successful application. It really does help in terms of getting through. It's just like anything like this, right, to get NIH funding, for example, or, you know, any of those, you know, just granting agencies. You have to have to look a lot of previous applications to get through to see what they're looking at in their side. And that's that's why it's really important. And you're just kind of looking at the sort of wording and what they're choosing to say and the sort of general description in order to get through in order to make your life easier. The other thing is, and so this is the second thing, is give yourself a tremendous amount of time. So IRB staff, absolutely wonderful at my institution, absolutely wonderful at most institutions, but they just have a lot of stuff going on. And so you're going to have to realize it's going to take some time to get through the process. So I want you to think in sort of time frames. I don't want you to think in terms of like weeks. I want you to think in terms of months to get approval. So start really, really early with this. So before you think you're actually going to get to the point where you can do the research or you're going to want to do the research, just start the IRB process much before that. The course takes forever to take the course. It's going to take you hours to take these sort of courses to get through. So just make sure that you give yourself plenty of time. Start early and plan for that. Say I would, if this is your first time that you've done it, I would say plan to, okay, you're going to do research in six months from now. So start it now, start the IRB process now, and then sort of plan for an initial submission of your IRB research, your application, say maybe in two months from now, and then hoping that in six months, six to eight months that you're going to get IRB approval. And that's all good, right? You want to make sure that they're actually taking their time. It means that they're deliberating. They're really, really thinking about this. And they're thinking about everybody else. Not just you, it's thinking about everybody else in the university or the research institution that you're at. So be really, really accommodating with that and make sure that just give yourself lots of time. That's all I'm saying. So the third thing, and this is kind of like general good research protocol anyways, is look for ways to minimize contact with the IRB altogether, right? So I'm not suggesting don't go and do sketchy things with the IRB and stuff like that. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying follow the protocol. But what I want you to do is look for ways to do research that is easier and less invasive, less risky, that sort of makes people less uneasy, that you're going to run into all these kind of issues, right? So if you want to do some surgical procedure on people, well, then you do something that's not as invasive, right? So you do it on simulations, right? So you'd find like a dummy and try to do the research on the dummy instead of on people. Like a dummy, like a plastic dummy. I'm not into, I'm not kind of a medical person. So, but you get where I'm getting at, right? So you want to take your risk way down, right? So if you're doing, you know, survey research, for example, see if you could do it in terms of looking what is already available on the internet or data that's already available someplace that's publicly available. And then your risk goes way down, makes the process so much more easier to get through. It's typically as the risk goes up, the sort of more pushback, the longer it's actually going to take to get through IRB, you know, the IRB process. And that is good. You want them to do that. That means they are looking out for you. They are looking out for the university and they're looking out for, you know, the respondents or the, you know, the people that are in your study. So you want them to take a long time to deliberate these things and ask a lot of questions. Thank you, by the way, if you're an IRB review board person, if you're part of it, thank you so much for doing this. This is, you're doing a great job. Um, the other thing is to, so, so expect, just get a lot more pushback and just look for things that are easier to do. The other thing is, um, you know, if they are taking a long time, um, sometimes there's administrative stuff that's going on. That's just like everywhere, right? That there's administrative stuff that's going on or administrative problems that they're changing protocols that, you know, especially in this day and age, in the last, you know, five to 10 years, there's been a tremendous push in terms of ratcheting up the, you know, what we're doing in terms of research. It's beginning a lot better. Um, so what does, you know, research getting better mean it means it means that like the standards are just getting way higher. So everybody across the board, across everywhere, across sciences is, is getting the standards are just going way up. And so just expect that, you know, as standards go up, they have to, on their side, they have to implement new standards, new quality, quality control processes, really take a deep dive into their organization to make sure that they're getting stuff done, um, properly and effectively. So then just expect that it's going to take a long time. And if it's taking a long time and you think it's like way too long. So you expected it to take four months, like at your university, it's like normally four months and they're, they're taking six. So five months, you know, that that's kind of air, but if it takes six and it's normally four months, um, contact them and figure out what is going on, right? Like ask them what's going on. There might be some things that, that has just gotten lost in the mix. It's happened to me before where things have just gotten lost because of some administrative thing that's happened. Um, and then just put a little bit of, you know, be nice, but a little bit of pressure on them. Just be, you know, just ask them what, when you ask them, ask them just, you know, how is, what's going on with the, um, application. And see, I'm just inquiring about the application and that's just it like puts enough pressure on them and then see what they respond. And then, you know, just keep, just keep, uh, being nice, but at the same time sort of ratcheting up the, you know, the, the, how much you're actually contacting them and sort of, um, badgering that particular, um, individual or group. Usually they're really nice. They're just wonderful human beings. Um, so expect that and expect that they're probably going to try to be accommodating and get your research done as, as quick as possible, but just, you know, work with them. Don't be adversarial. That's what I'm suggesting is really what I'm trying to get at is don't be, don't be a jerk. Um, you know, contact them, be nice and really work with them in terms of getting the thing done. And then that's the sixth thing that I want to point out, but yeah, that's six, um, is make sure that if they have questions, so they're inevitably every single application, it's always going to come back to you and they're going to have questions. They're going to say, well, what about this? What about that? Um, make sure that you've answered all their questions as, as quick as you possibly can. And when you get those questions, just go through and, and, you know, respond to them, send it back to them so that nothing's waiting on your desk. Um, and that you are getting the process as quickly as possible done. And the other thing that happens too, is, um, once it gets on, once it gets to them or once it gets to you and you kind of like push it away, then they forget about it. So if you can keep it prompted in their mind, it can get through a lot faster. So that's the things that I would do. Again, nothing here is like, oh my God, he's telling some, you know, crazy, um, thing in terms of, you know, doing unethical things or cheating the system. That's not what I'm saying at all. I want you to do it as legitimately and openly as possible. Oh, no, I forgot one thing. I missed the four. I thought so. Um, if you use, you know, when you're going through the IRB process, be really specific in what you're doing with the study, but at the same time, trying to give yourself leeway to some degree in terms of what you're going to end up doing through it. Right. So you want to be very specific, but at the same time, you know, pointing out where there's moments where you're just kind of uncertain. All research is like that. That's totally normal. Um, and that, you know, you want to work through this kind of thing. And then that just kind of gives you more openings to re keep working at the application. Um, it sort of might help, they might sort of have some questions with those moments, but at the same time, um, you know, if you, it allows you more sort of ways to do repeat research in the future. Right. And that's kind of what you're thinking about, um, is that you want to interact with them and do everything specifically, do everything that you should be possibly doing. Um, but then, you know, acknowledge that there is room for, for more research and possibilities in the future with this particular research stream. That's really what you're trying to, that's what I'm trying to communicate, um, with this. So, uh, hopefully this answers your questions in terms of, you know, how to get IRB ethics approval. Oh, by the way, this was, um, Flory Sedell. Uh, he asked me to do a video on this. So Flory, if you watch this, you know what the rules are in this channel. You have to go out and do something nice within the next hour. It doesn't matter what it is. And, um, please do leave comments below what you actually did. I'm going to, uh, you know, actually ask you to do that because it's really nice to see that. Uh, and it's not just for, you know, this is just not for me and for the channel, but it's going to really help you out. And it helps out everybody when you do this kind of thing. And you'll understand why when you start being, doing these sort of nice little things. Um, so hopefully this answers your question, Flory and everybody else. Um, you know, just do the best possible job that you can with the IRB process and just expect these sort of things to happen. It's all research. There's always things that happen and just expect it along the way and, uh, you'll get done. You'll get through, just know it's going to take a little bit longer than what you initially thought it's going to be. If you're thinking weeks, expect months. And that is the norm. You're not unusual in any sort of way. If it doesn't, you know, if he doesn't get through within a matter of weeks. So, um, all right. So if you like this video, uh, give me a thumbs up to subscribe to the YouTube channel. I do appreciate it. Take care and have a wonderful day. Bye.