Speaker 1: And also what that does is, psychologically, these are secrets I'm giving everybody, by the way.

Speaker 2: How is commercial work different from other types of acting?

Speaker 1: It depends, you know. It depends on what type of commercial it is. I mean you have commercials where you have, it'll be a serious, you know, commercial dealing with, say, drug use, or whatever, or maybe teen pregnancy, or whatever, you know. And they might get a commercial to look more like a TV or a film. Okay, then you have commercial auditions where it's really broad and high comedy, like sitcom. I've done all different types of commercials over the years, where they might have me do a sitcom type commercial, you know, or they might have me do something like a more dramatic commercial where you have to really act or be able to pull that off. But the more versatile you are, of course, the more money you make and the more opportunities you get.

Speaker 2: Film Courage What usually happens in a commercial audition, Rumi?

Speaker 1: Well, let me say this. Since the pandemic, things have pretty much changed as far as the auditioning process. You do more self-tape type auditions now. People like me that have been doing it for a long time prefer to be in the actual agency with the casting people and possibly the clients. Because, see, I have a theater background, so I still like to perform and be in front of those folk. But when you self-tape, you pretty much, they give you the specs of what they want and you pretty much have to try to interpret what they want from the specs. So you really don't know necessarily what they want. Now if you're fortunate to get a call back and it's still, you know, self or like on Zoom or something, then you know you're interacting with them, so you get a little more feedback or you actually get a lot of feedback as far as what they want. But I tend to book more when I go into the agency more because it's just part of being like on stage for me, you know. And a lot of actors prefer to do self-tapes because they don't feel comfortable being in the room. I do, because I'm a ham.

Speaker 2: And you think that maybe you would book more because they'd pick up on all the little improv, nuances. Oh, all of that. All of that.

Speaker 1: All of that. And then when I come in the room, and I tell people when they go for a commercial audition in person, I tell people, I say, how you come in the room and whatnot, those first couple of 10, 20, 30 seconds when you walk in, a lot of times that determines whether you might get the job or whether they might like you or not.

Speaker 2: What is it? What do you think it is? It's just like eye contact or just seeing your body language?

Speaker 1: All of that. Now, I've been in situations where I've walked in the room and the people are hating me. And you pick, you know, you could pick up on stuff and I'm like, okay, they don't like me. I mean, for whatever reason, it could be any reason. I was in a situation before where a guy was saying that he booked a job because the woman from the ad agency had a boyfriend that looked like him in high school. And then I've been in situations where I've been in the room where I thought they didn't like me, where I'm just like, oh boy, I'm not getting anything from them, as far as any feedback or any warmth. And I leave there and, you know, on the way home or whatever, I'm driving and my agent will say, they want to put you on a veil. I'm like, a veil for what? For where you just left? And then an hour or two later, they'll call my agent and say, you booked it? I'm like, okay. And then when you get on the shoot, those same people that were like, come up to you, oh, we're so glad to have you here. I'm like, oh yeah, okay. Then on the other hand, I've been in a room where I've had the people just like gushing on me, oh, that's fantastic, nothing. So it's hard to say. It's just so crazy about how the business is and, you know, you just got to just play it by ear. You got to play it by ear. But commercials now, commercials now are pretty much, most of them are now real people type commercials and they don't do more, they don't do as many serious dramatic commercials unless the subject calls for it. But if you notice from TV, everything is usually kind of funny and kind of, you know, and whatnot because especially over the last couple of years, we've needed to have people laugh, you know, and be entertained and feel better, you know, about themselves.

Speaker 2: And about the world.

Speaker 1: Yes. Mainly the world.

Speaker 2: Not just themselves.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Mainly the world. We all feel good about ourselves. I feel good about me.

Speaker 2: What are some do's and don'ts of commercial auditions, even when you're in the car checking your hair or whatever, checking your teeth? What are some things that you just know, don't do this and make sure to do this?

Speaker 1: Okay, well, at an audition, when you come in the room, don't try to, you know, befriend people or especially on a callback situation, you know, now when you go in for the first audition, usually in person, you're in there with a casting person or the director, casting director or assistant. And I know everybody. So you know, we'll talk about, hey, did you see the game or blah, blah, blah, blah, and whatever. And then they say, okay, you ready? We tape it. Then I leave out because I know the people. Coming to the callback, unless I know the director and I know quite a few of them, I still don't glad hand and hey, how you doing, buddy? I don't know. I don't do that. I'll say, hey, hi, how are you? You know? And the directors usually, when they know me, say, hey, good to see you, man, and what now? I say, hey, well, thank you. You know? I'm a little more humble like that. And then I try not to, I try not to play to the crowd. I try to really get focused on the director because the director is the person that is going to give you whatever direction and feedback you need. And I've done it, of course, but sometimes you might want to play to the people in the room because they might be laughing and what not and, you know, you got an audience. So that's not, you shouldn't do that. You should just mainly stay with the director. And a lot of times actors are afraid to ask questions because most actors are afraid to either come off like they don't know anything or like, oh, I'm imposing on them. No, when you're in that room, that's your audition. And like when a director says something to me, if I don't understand what they're saying, I'll say, excuse me, I didn't understand. Could you say that again? You want me to do such and such and this and that? And they'll say what they want. And also what that does is, psychologically, these are secrets here I'm giving everybody by the way, psychologically, what it does is it makes you have a relationship with that director because you're going beyond what the script of the commercial is. He's giving you specific instructions about what he wants. You say what he wants. You're like, oh, yeah, okay. And then if you're able to execute it at that point, then that's a plus, you know, in your favor, you know. And another thing, don't, please don't linger after audition. Once you finish your audition, don't stay in there and, you know, well, hey, you know, I'm glad you had me here and no, no. Once you're finished, say, thank you, leave. Because sometimes, see, you could talk your way into a job and you can talk your way out of it. And I've done that before. I've done it. Because you're human. Sometimes you do that. And when I've left, I say, why were you talking so much in there? I say that to myself. Then some of them I've gotten and some of them I haven't. But you got to know when to, got to know when to leave. You got to know when to give yourself that hook and get out of there, you know, you got to know. And when you're on the shoot, as a matter of fact, when you're on the shoot, always, and I'd say this to young, inexperienced or just basically inexperienced actors, always say thank you to your clients when you're done. No matter what they're doing, what they could be talking to the director or talking to whoever, once you're done shooting and they say, okay, that's a wrap. And they say, hey, thank you, whatever. Always go to your clients and say thank you. You could interrupt them no matter what they're doing, it's protocol and they will stop talking about whatever. Oh, and you know, shake hands and say, thank you so much, hey, it was a pleasure, I really enjoyed this, thank you, get out of there, leave. Of course, you always have to say thank you to your director and you have to say thank you to your camera operator and all of the crew. But see, I've been doing this so long, I know most of these people. Like yesterday, I did the job for some people, the director and his company I worked for a few months ago. So everybody knew me and I've known those guys, a few of them, for years. So I'll say, hey, good to see you, how's your daughter, how's your kids doing, whatever, and like that. And then one thing I do, like I didn't shoot my scene until the end of the day yesterday, so when they broke for lunch, they say, okay, actors and whatnot get served first. I hadn't shot anything, so the crew was supposed to wait. I say, oh no, and when I got, I stood there, they say, oh, go ahead. I said, no, no, you go ahead. I haven't done anything yet. And the crew is like, wow. I said, no, no, I insist. You go ahead. And I was one of the last ones to eat because I hadn't done anything. I've been sitting around all day. They like that, the directors and the crew people, they like that because you let them know that you are not better than them. You are part of them. See, we're a team, see. But now if I'm working, the reason they want us to go first is because we have to get ready, they have to remake us up or change outfits or whatever. So you go first, okay, it's understandable. But in my situation, I was sitting around like this, I don't know, you go. And they really appreciate that. They might not say it to you, but it's little things like that when you get on a set that they remember.

Speaker 2: Film Courage Now what about when you're sitting in the waiting room? Let's suppose it is an in-person audition and there's other actors there, are you talking to them? Are you telling them about a commercial you just booked? What's the protocol?

Speaker 1: It depends. It depends on the people you're talking to. I tend to not talk too much about it. It's like we were talking about Facebook earlier. I don't really talk much about what I do on Facebook, about the jobs I book. I talk about other things, like sports, they know about my sports. And I talk a little political stuff, you know. And people say, you don't talk about anything you do. I say, no, I don't do that for some reason. But I've never been the type of person that has done that because it's like, you know. I come from a sports background where it's like I was always taught, if you score a touchdown, you don't have to do the dance and everything. You have to act like you already do that and it's something that you already always do and you're familiar doing. So I tend to just kind of flip the ball. I didn't flip it much when I played, but I tend to just hand the ball off and go back to the side. I'm kind of like that as far as the business. When something about me is posted on Facebook as far as work, I'm not the one that put it on there. I have friends that say, you know, you need to put that on there. I'm like, well, I'm not going to do that, mainly because I don't know how. And second of all, I just don't do that. So I tend to kind of lay back on that, you know.

Speaker 2: Film Courage What if you give an audition and it's not the audition you wanted to give? Maybe the performance you wanted to give, maybe you didn't like the direction and you felt it didn't showcase your talents? Well, that happens.

Speaker 1: If you can't redo it, then…I mean, come on, you've got days where you're going to be on and you have days where you're going to be off. And if you have a track record as far as being a reliable, competent actor, casting people know from having worked with you or know from the experience of seeing your work or knowing you, they know when you're on. Because you have those days, I mean, like anything, on any job. Some days you don't feel like going to work and you have to go and then you figure out a way not to do anything, you know, like I used to do in Corporate America, which I got out of there quickly. But you have days where you're on and days when you're off. And then there's points where you say, okay, unless I can redo the audition, then, you know, you just have to deal with it. But you want to try to be grounded in whatever you do. And that's basically from knowing your technique and also from practice and study. And I always tell people that it doesn't matter how long you've been in the business or how good you think you are, you always have to practice and you always need to workshop and take classes and whatnot because there's always something new and you don't know everything. You might think you do, but sometimes you have off days and sometimes you have to just accept that, okay, I didn't do it that day. Where a lot of people have problems in this business is when they get themselves worked up over the fact that they didn't do exactly what they wanted and they carry it into another audition or they carry it into somewhere else and, you know, they don't treat their dog right or their significant other because of that. And that's really ridiculous, you know. And when I first got in the business, my first teacher who was like my mentor at that point, I went to an audition and I didn't do what I wanted and I left out and I was almost in tears and I called him up and I said, it didn't go well. He says, okay, why are you upset like this? Because it didn't, he says, do you honestly think you're going to do every audition that's going to be great? And then he told me, he says, you know no matter what you do, 99% of them you're not going to get anyway. And I said, huh? He says, most of the stuff you're not going to get, so why trip out and worry about it? Just go in, do the best you can at that point and at that time and let it go. Now, of course, nobody lets it go, but over the years what I've done is I've been able to let it go a lot sooner, see. So you can't worry about stuff like that. You just have to go head on and do your best and just, you know, roll the dice and let it go.

Speaker 2: Film Courage Do a lot of actors have negative views about doing commercial work now?

Speaker 1: No. Back then, you couldn't get a star to even think about doing a commercial. That was an insult. And even when stars did commercials, they would like go over to Japan and places or Europe where they got paid millions of dollars. Like you know, Paul Newman did that. He, you know, Paul Newman's a fantastic actor. He did a lot of commercials in Asia and Japan and Europe and the big stars would do that. Now they get most of the commercials now and they get paid major dollars. The rest of us, they start to cut our money, you know. You know, it's kind of gone down for the regular working actor, you know, as far as the amounts of money.

Speaker 2: Film Courage Are these buyouts, by the way?

Speaker 1: I'm not sure exactly how it is for the stars. They might buy them out. I'm not really sure. I'm pretty sure they do because the money is so huge that it would offset any kind of session fee or a use fee or something. Like for us, you've got a session fee and then a use fee. So I don't know. I think they might be kind of a buyout with the stars. But it's so far over scale that they can do that, you know.

Speaker 2: Film Courage And is it different for Internet versus TV versus radio? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1: Well, Internet now, now you get like a flat rate for the Internet, you know, whereas before, you know, they would pay you a certain amount every 13 weeks. Now it's a little different, you know. And then like a lot of people say, oh, you got paid for every time it runs. That's not the case too much anymore. See, that was considered network. But the problem with network now is most people don't watch network television. Most people are streaming. So now we're getting screwed on those streaming contracts like Netflix and Hulu and all those when they show commercials, they give you a flat rate and that's it.

Speaker 2: Film Courage If an actor doesn't have an agent, can they still find commercial auditions?

Speaker 1: They can because a lot of the like backstage and casting network and some of those sites, you know, they have auditions, open call for auditions. But usually it's like going through agents and casting directors who deal with agents. So it's kind of tight on that. But there are opportunities, you know.

Speaker 2: Film Courage What's your final advice to actors who want to do commercial work? Any parting words?

Speaker 1: Well, I'll say that it beats having a regular job because you then can focus on other things, you know, if you're able to get jobs and work. I mean I haven't had a regular job in many years. In parting I would say commercial work is really almost like the bread and butter now for most actors because the theatrical and TV work is much less than it was for non-stars and whatnot. Because as we know in the theatrical business, you know, in films and whatnot, they tend to skew younger. So a lot of the older actors that were like doing a lot of films and whatnot, they have moved back to TV and also into commercials. Because see, like I said, commercials no longer have that stigma of being low rent and beneath somebody because it's so lucrative. If you notice on TV, you see more stars doing commercials, athletes, you know, and whatnot. They're getting all of the work. And regular folk are not getting as much work now, you know, because everything is moving towards that. I mean, you got like Jennifer Aniston doing, you know, cosmetic commercials. I mean, I just saw J-Lo last night doing a commercial at a health club where she was talking about something and it was for some product, you know. And these are A-list mega stars. And they're doing commercials because it's easy work for them as far as not as much time. The work is not as easy as people think, but it's easier as far as on your schedule and on your time. As opposed to like, say, Demi Moore might get a million dollars for an AT&T commercial and she might make a million dollars, say, doing a film, but she's on set for like, what, two weeks or three weeks, you know, as opposed to doing, you know, a commercial for eight hours and most stars don't even stay that long. They leave. They're like, oh, I have to go. And they're like, oh, okay. Because everybody defers to them and a lot of the advertising people want to become auteurs and become, you know, film people. So they tend to want to say, hey, look, can you check my script out? And the stars say, oh, sure, give it here. They don't do anything with it. They're like, oh, sure, give it here.