Speaker 1: They believe Arthur Fleck to be some kind of martyr. Well, he's not.

Speaker 2: Joaquin, congratulations on the film and the reception. I have to start with this question for you, sir. As a musical theater nerd, you got to sing with Lady Gaga. Like, seriously, I'm kind of jealous. 20 years nearly after Walk the Line. What was it like returning to this musical format with literally one of the most recognizable voices on the planet?

Speaker 3: Thank God I didn't think about it that way, because that would have been so overwhelming. And thankfully, Stephanie, as I call her, didn't come with any of that, like, Lady Gaga energy, because I think that would have been overwhelming to me. There are these musical elements, and it was important to me that they really reflect what the characters are going through emotionally in an authentic way versus we're performing songs. And so there is that tendency to, you know, if you're making a film and there are musical numbers in it, that you're going to approach it in a certain way as if it belongs to a particular genre. Maybe technically it does. I don't know about that. But I know that it was important that it feel real. Like, why is the character singing? Why are they singing this song? Where did they hear this song? He's not a professional singer. He's a terrible performer. We know this from the first film. So it needs to feel deconstructed. And, you know, initially the references that I had were like Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis Jr., these, like, beautiful performances that were by accomplished entertainers that were very comfortable in their medium. And it's not comfortable for Arthur. And so that was a kind of like, I think it seems obvious now, but at the time it felt like this epiphanous moment where we said, well, hold on, we shouldn't, that shouldn't be the goal. Like Frank Sinatra is not the reference for this. Frank is somebody that he, Arthur's heard on the radio, but he's incapable of singing a song like that. And what I really want is like a child, like when a child sings a song and it's so meaningful to them, they're giving it their all. But it's, you know, there's like a lot of notes that are like not quite there. And the phrasing is off. And they're like, well, that is Arthur. And so that was a really big moment, I think, when we realized like, okay, that's the, that became the North Star for me.

Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting that you say that because there's all these incredible and tender moments still between the two of you. Like, I think that's what folks are going to be very surprised with is in these musical numbers are some of the more, I think, sweeping and also moving moments of it. I'm curious how you and Lady Gaga found that on set together and found that intimacy because it's right there in the lens. Like, it's undeniable. Like, you really do feel that these are two people falling in a tragic love story, you know?

Speaker 3: Yeah, I just would come in and be like, listen, just do warm up a little bit and just watch and learn. And I, how do you know? I relied on her so much. Really, Stephanie was the first person that was like, we should film these live. And I was like, no, I'm not doing it live. That's crazy. And she was like, and she was so sweet because she said, okay, then don't. Like, if that's not comfortable for you, the most important thing is like, that you're comfortable. So I think that like, when she said that to me in that way, it made me feel like really kind of safe and connected with her. I felt like, okay, this is a journey that we're gonna share together. And that felt really important. And yeah, I think part of it's like, at some point it's just like any other scene where you can't think about the end result. You just have to go through the experience of the moment and try to connect to her. And she was so open and so raw. There's a scene where she sings close to you. It was so deconstructed and raw. And I was really moved by it. I didn't expect it. And I think a few takes in it just really took me by surprise. So, you know, so much of it is really just like listening and being there with the other person. You should see it out there.

Speaker 4: They're all going crazy for you.

Speaker 2: Miss Lady Gagam, I just spoke to Joaquin and he told me that he couldn't have done this literally without you, because he said from the first moment y'all's partnership, it was everything that you were helping him do. I'd love for you to talk a little bit about how you both crafted the romance between Arthur and Harley.

Speaker 4: You know, we really did work very closely together and we did develop a really good partnership. I think that we were always looking for the truth. And these are kind of extraordinary circumstances that he's in prison, that, you know, he has killed five people, that she's in love with him. She believes he's going to get out. She would do anything for him. And I think in any given moment, we were always trying to find the reality and the thing that connects to people. And then in other ways, in, you know, fantasies and through music and dance and the costumes, the lighting, you know, we were all really working together like a painting, you know, something that you could watch and feel something almost non-linear, you know, a story that is like bending and moving and breaking right before you. And to give the audience a unique feeling.

Speaker 2: And I think one of the things that's so unique about it is these fantastical sequences, these sort of like dream sequences that you all get to explore. And I just, I think somebody like yourself that so loves that medium of theatricality, that must've been just an incredible set to sort of play with. And maybe one, I don't know if you've gotten to do that big of a stage production like that on screen. What was that like for you?

Speaker 4: It was really fun. I definitely felt like I got to like play in all my favorite areas. It was kind of boundary-less and there was a chaos in it all. And, you know, these two characters thrive in the chaos. So I think we did. And it was beautiful to kind of do everything we could to make something as original as possible. And something that would be good for the story of Arthur. You know, that was so important to me. Being there for Joaquin also in his performance and creating a woman that was Arthur's match.

Speaker 3: I got the sneaking suspicion that we're not giving the people what they want. It's okay, baby.

Speaker 4: Let's give the people what they want.

Speaker 2: My first question is, obviously you had such a great accomplishment with the first one, but what was the pitch to bring in Lady Gaga to add into the sequel? Which again, surprised that we're even here for a sequel, but then you bring in the Lady Gaga of it all.

Speaker 1: Well, as we were writing, we just found that music became more and more a big part of the script and a big part of the direction we were heading in. And then I simply thought, well, I'd love to find an actor that brings music with her. Somebody that you see them on a poster or on the billboard. And it makes sense that there's music in this movie. It happens to be that she also needs to be a great actress and Lady Gaga is. So it was pretty simple. I mean, when I think back on it, it was pretty clear where it led us to.

Speaker 2: Speaking of which, you said, what was that first conversation with her to talk about taking it on? Because yeah, I would be curious what she first thought when you pitched it to her.

Speaker 1: I did. I think I called her or texted her and told her we're working on this thing and could I send her like the first 60 pages? Because we only had about halfway done at that point. And I just wanted, the reason why I wanted to send her half and see if she was interested is because I, as a writer, I write these movies with my friend Scott Silver, but as a writer, I always find it easier to write for the person, like knowing who it's going to be, writing for them. So we're 60 pages in and I still don't know who it's going to be. So I was like, let me just send this to her and see. So she responded and we just kept going in that direction.

Speaker 2: It's so interesting you say, so for a lot of the writing of this, you knew that she was going to be probably your Harley and so that changes what you're writing. And then obviously you knew Joaquin, but I know when you have such talents like this, when they get on the set, they're going to do something you never expected. I'd love for you to tell me what one of those unexpected moments was. And I know you like to keep your sets kind of loose that way.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I do. And I think it's what makes making films exciting is that you just never really know where it's going to go, right? So you give your actors the freedom because you hire them for a reason, not to just sit there and say this line exactly like this line is written, please. Instead, it's like, no, no, run this line through you. You know what I mean? So I can't think of one single example because it's basically every single thing in the movie is run through them. And just oftentimes an actor will struggle with a line that we have written and then the direction for me is not, oh, maybe try it. It's just make it your own, meaning maybe it's the words aren't right. So give me the same gist of those words, but make it your own, you know?

Speaker 2: Since you did come back for a sequel, you were able to bring back some of the folks that were a part of the success of the original. And one of those is Hildur coming back again to do the score. I know one of the great things about the first one was that you actually had her score on set. Yeah, of course. Were you able to have that freedom with this one? And then tell me about what that was like and collaborating with her again for this one, knowing that it was going to lean so much into music?

Speaker 1: Well, it was exciting because it wasn't so much just about score anymore, which was what the first one was about, but it was also about these, the arrangements of the actual songs, right? So that's different than score. So there's score, and then there's the arrangement of the music. But then what happens if you take the arrangements of the music and then you have Hildur do score on top of that arrangement? So it's kind of like a, I would jokingly refer to it as, let's Hildurize this song. So if you're doing Frank Sinatra's For Once in My Life, Sinatra's version of it, now you have her come on top of that arrangement, and I think it makes something eerie and just entirely different.