Speaker 1: Okay, here's the big one. Here's the tough one. Here's the video you guys are waiting for. Negotiations, right? Now, everybody's a little intimidated about negotiations. How do you deal with that, Mark? Because I know you've got a certain attitude. You're to the point, but if you really want to get a deal done, right, how do you approach it? Do you approach it with pushing or being a little aggressive? Do you approach it with trying to find a middle ground? How do you approach negotiating anything, like even buying a car?

Speaker 2: How do you do it? Okay, well, there's two things, and I'm glad you brought this up, because this is very valuable to a lot of people. Number one is planning, and number two is take the fear out of it, okay? These are two of the secrets. These are the two of the secrets that I use, and I'm a little bit different than the average bear, which is why you have me on, frankly. I mean, it's certainly not for my looks. So what happens is you have to take the fear out of it. So if you have no fear, there's nothing to lose. I know it's easier said than done. I'm going to get all kinds of comments below and all kinds of bullshit about, oh, it's easier said than done. It is, but if you practice, if you're a dead man walking, you got nothing to lose. You can negotiate your ass off. The minute you're fearful, you change your behavior, and you cannot win.

Speaker 1: I want to talk about that for a minute. So you're saying, and I think what you're saying is you have to be able to walk from a deal. That's right. You have to be able to say, hey, no, thank you, walking, because that's powerful. The no is a powerful word, isn't it? So when do you know, but most people are kind of scared to say that, and they're scared to walk. So how do you get that confidence to be able to walk out?

Speaker 2: I said, take the fear out. Just go in. And first of all, the other thing I said was planning. So planning is, I'm going to say a dollar, they're going to say 50 cents. And what I want to do is I want to walk out with 75 cents. So you do the planning, and here's, I'm going to say this, they're going to say that, I'm going to say this, and then you know. So you come in well-planned. Sometimes things come off the rails. I'm not going to say no, but they do. But the planning, that's number one. Number two, when you go in and you're fearless, or you've squashed the fear as much as possible. Some people are fearful to begin with. Some people are fearful to go to the bathroom. I mean, it's just in their DNA. But if you have nothing to lose, you can effectively negotiate or not have the deal.

Speaker 1: But Mark, that's so hard for people. Okay. Let's talk about throwing the first punch.

Speaker 2: Sure.

Speaker 1: Okay. We're talking about, we want to find a certain price point. They're going to be a little, probably a little low. You're going to be a little high. How do you throw that first punch? Not to kind of insult the person, or do you insult them? What's your strategy with that?

Speaker 2: No, my strategy is to have a discussion, to have a conversation. It's a mini sales pitch. So you're basically showing them, you know, well, you didn't, you know, buying a company. Okay. You went in while you didn't do so well last year. And, you know, these are the numbers and this and that. And then based on that, it's going to take an awful lot of work for me to get it to where it needs to be. And it's going to take money and time and all that. And you're going through all of the reasons why you want to offer what you offer after you've laid, after you've laid the groundwork, then come in with your reasonable offer. Don't be an asshole. Don't start yelling out stupid stuff. Don't try to buy a Bentley for 20 bucks. I mean, if you're not, if you're coming in and trying to buy a Bentley and you have a hundred dollars, you're obviously, you're kidding yourself too.

Speaker 1: Okay. So you have to be, I like what you're saying. Everybody's listening. This is really important. He's setting the situation. He's framing the negotiations, right?

Speaker 2: It's almost a reverse sales pitch. It's what has to happen and why you're going to be offering what you're going to be offering. Then once you feel satisfied internally that you've set the table appropriately, then you drop your number.

Speaker 1: Okay. So let's, let's, let's take this information and apply it to negotiating the licensing agreement, negotiating a royalty rate. Right. Okay. I'm an inventor. I've got a prototype. I filed for a patent. I've spent way too much money by the way, but I'm never going to recoup that. I know that I want to, but they're not going to give that money to me. And maybe I have CAD drawings. Maybe I even have some sales, right? I can prove, I can take away a little bit of risk. Yeah. Can I use that to say, Hey, I want to, let's say, let's play act here for a minute. I'm an inventor and I want to, and you're a company that's going to license my idea. I come to you and say, Hey Mark, I'm really, first of all, I'm really happy to be working with you. I think you're the right company. And I feel like this is going to be a great opportunity for both of us. I think my, my, my invention, it's new. There's nothing else like it. It's got a point of difference. I understand manufacturing a little bit. We can get the price down a lot. So there's a big profit margin. I've even done my intellectual property protection. So I filed a PPA. I even have a trademark for us, right? I've got that. I even have a URL that might be helpful. And I've got everything for you to be more successful when you license it from me. And that's why I don't want that typical 5% royalty. I really want maybe

Speaker 2: nine. Okay. So what I would say to that, if we're really play acting, I would say, Stephen, I really appreciate what you're saying. You've done great homework, but the most that I've ever paid in my whole entire life is 5%. I've got a lot of work to do. I've got to lay out hundreds of thousands of dollars, hundreds of thousands. I've got to lay out so that I've got to bring in container loads because everything you're saying to me, Stephen, I totally believe you. I believe what you're telling me. But at the same time, it's got to be financially feasible for both of

Speaker 1: us, both of us. I know, but I've already done the manufacturing mark. I know there's a higher profit margin in there because I've done my work. I've even protected that point of difference of getting the lowest cost. There's more profit margin in here because I'm a good inventor. I've done more work. That's why I want seven. Okay. So, I mean, I understand where you're

Speaker 2: coming from. And the last thing you should tell me is that auto industry is a $2.7 billion industry. If I get one half of 1%, let's save it. Save the drama for your mama. Okay. So, now we're down to 7%. Okay. If I really think the deal is phenomenal, I'm going to split the difference at six. And if you don't take it, I'm going to walk. Okay. All right. Fair enough. So, you went from five to six. I went from nine to six. Everybody can live. I'm going to lay out a shit ton of money. And we're both going to make a lot of money. And you're going to say, thank you. And that's what we're going to do. But do you see what the attitude is? Yeah. I really like what you said because you gave

Speaker 1: me the perspective of what I needed to make my argument of what I'm asking for. And you came back to say, hey, look, I've got some expenses. This is what I have to do. And this is my argument.

Speaker 2: And then you somehow get to where you need to be. Exactly. But if you came in, you were smart. You came in at nine. Right. I came in at five. Right. So, right there, you set your fucking

Speaker 1: basement at five. But let's say I do this now. Let's change it up. I go, all right. This is very fair. We knew the seven. But, you know, Mark, I've got another deal on the table here. Okay. All right. And I'm not trying to leverage you. I'm not trying to force you to make anything. But I've got some interest. You know, you like it. Some other people do, too. But, you know, maybe seven point five. Okay, Stephen, I appreciate that. Go get

Speaker 2: you seven point five. Best of luck. Take care. And the and the problem is I'm fearless. You get it. That's where the fearless comes in. Now, I've just put you between a rock and a hard place to say, if you're lying, you just got caught. If you're not lying, go get your seven and a half. Maybe he's only going to generate a million dollars in revenue and I'm going to generate five million dollars in revenue. So you just fucked yourself because you

Speaker 1: had to go chase a fake. How do you Mark? How do you feel? I mean, there's a certain point when you're negotiating, maybe a little sense of humor, maybe being tough. I love it. I always use sense of humor. But but what's the point of where you're pushing too hard? Is there a point where you maybe you're just you're asking for too much? You're pushing. How do you know when you hit that wall a little bit? Can you tell by but do you tell in an email? Do you tell in the phone call? Do you do you look at someone's eyes? How do you know when you've gone too far?

Speaker 2: Well, I can't I can't tell you that because my intelligence is off the charts and I can I know what you're thinking right now. I just I I have that ability. I have you know, my intelligence is medium, but my intelligence is off the charts. So for a person with no intelligence, he's just going to have to or she's just going to have to look for the point where it gets uncomfortable. Once it gets uncomfortable, I mean, even even I mean, anybody can tell when it gets uncomfortable, but I can see it coming. But but if it gets uncomfortable, and then the guy digs his heels in, first of all, you're not going to move them, then you're going to piss him off, and then the deal is going to die. Okay, so but but if you don't care, fearless,

Speaker 1: yeah, but I do care because I want to keep the relationship going. I'm an inventor, I'm going to come back to you again. So I don't want to irritate you. But I want to be tough at the same time. How important is it? I know we talked about the power of no. But how important is it for me to say, All right, Mark, let me get back to you. Okay, and I let it sit for a week. Does it irritate you? Or does it send a message? Well, this guy maybe got another deal here. What

Speaker 2: does it do in your mind? It makes me think that you're an indecisive turd burglar. And then I and then I go, You know what, this fucking guy can't make a decision. He can't decide his way out of a paper bag. I don't even know if I want to do the deal. Okay. All right. Because when you ask me something, I can make a decision on the spot. I am in the decision making business. Bang, bang, bang, bang, make decisions. Let's go. Some are good. Some are bad. Some some are medium, but make a decision. What happens is the worst thing you could do to me is acting decisive. You're entitled to think about it. But in the next day or two, you better get back to me and say, I thought about it. I'm in the middle of a deal right now. I laid out what I wanted to buy it for. And the guy said, Let me get back to you. We're on day number two. If it goes beyond day number two, and he calls me back on Monday, he better have a hell of an excuse or a hell of a reason to get back into the deal with with me. This is just me. You're interviewing me. I know what other people think. But I'm telling you, I do this every single day. So this is how I do it. So I'm not for

Speaker 1: everybody. This tomato. But I think I think what's interesting, the tips that you provided

Speaker 2: were really good today. But I give you I give you a look behind the curtain because I don't care. I'm going to tell you what I'm thinking. No, and I do. I do. I appreciate that. And I know

Speaker 1: our audience does, too. All right, Mark, thank you very much. Good stuff. We're going to have you back again. You're the real deal. Thank you very much. Subscribe down below, everybody. Thanks. We're all done.