Speaker 1: All right, Ann, this is so fun having you here. It's fun to be here. All right, so this is one of our favorite things. I know we talk about it in private. We're going to talk about it in public now. OK. Self-tapes. Yikes. What's your checklist? Do you go through with a fine-tooth comb? What makes a successful self-tape, and what's your process of discerning a good self-tape?

Speaker 2: OK, so I'll talk about the numbers. I had a role recently that we knew we were not going to be able to bring the actor to meet the director in a callback for the role because it was an added role, and they were already in production. So that self-tape had to be really good. That self-tape had to be on the money and ready to perform the next day without the director giving a redirect. So I'm looking at that self-tape completely differently than I am looking at other self-tapes. Sometimes other self-tapes are, and can we bring you in for a callback from this self-tape?

Speaker 1: And I'll say with episodic, from our office's point of view, for feature films, we'll probably have time for a redirect or a re-tape or come in in person. But on episodic, one rarely ever has the time. So really, that self-tape needs to be hireable off the tape.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Not every project is like that. For me, I considered for this particular role, 640 actors invited 121 to self-tape and got 61 back or something.

Speaker 1: I think that's actually, I don't think actors realize that not everyone actually says yes to the invitation.

Speaker 2: So I was really excited that I got that many back. And then passed along probably 17 or 18 onto the director with, in my opinion, maybe four that were ready to go. And obviously, someone was hired and will be on the set, having never met the director.

Speaker 1: And is that typical for you, giving 17 tapes to a director?

Speaker 2: Oh, that is, I wouldn't say it's typical. You have to know your director. If that's too much for the director or not enough for the director. But if they were not able to see anybody in the room and they're nervous about a role, then I do want to give them a few more options. But a lot of times, you're literally giving them three or four options.

Speaker 1: I was going to say, that's more typical for our office, is three to five, and then that's it. But we always have backups.

Speaker 2: So a lot, yeah. And there was no time for the backups. For this one, because of time, everything had to be there. And I don't know that the actors know this, but somebody who's on set, they're not at their Big Mac looking at this. They are on their phone doing this.

Speaker 1: I'm on my phone doing this. Are you? And the other thing, just in terms of numbers, because I think that's a really good point, is when, if we're doing any self-tapes for commercials, which is much more rare, at least in my experience, than for television and film. But if we are able to do self-tapes for commercials, the amount of tape that we do need to send to the client is vastly increased compared to film and television. You want to give 20 to 50 choices sometimes for a single role.

Speaker 2: But I would say, your point is very right. For film, five max. It's too much to take on board. So what's your checklist? To narrow it down to those five, what do you expect? So this is really specific and anal, OK? Good. I don't want to see your pantry. I don't want to see your cat. I don't want to see your bed. If you're in a hotel room, I don't mind seeing the end of the bed if you're up against the wall. I don't want you to look like Boris Karloff because there's no lighting. And I definitely want it to be horizontal and not vertical. I don't mind if you're going from a cell phone, especially if you're on set on another project. I'm very forgiving. I'm a huge believer in the willing suspension of disbelief. But some things that we see in self-tapes, and I've told you this before, there should be a film festival of self-tapes.

Speaker 1: Let's start one. OK.

Speaker 2: We'd have to get permission from everyone, though. We would, but some of them are just so priceless. Yeah, there are great ones. Some of them are perfect. You know exactly this is what you're going to be seeing in the film later on or whatever the project. And other ones are like, I can't concentrate on them because there's so many other things going on. If you have a sheet, please iron it.

Speaker 3: Oh, right, a sheet like a backdrop. Yeah, when it's all wrinkled, it is so distracting.

Speaker 2: You're right. It is so distracting. And I don't want to be distracted. And sadly for you actors, I probably have 40 other tapes to look at. So it's very easy to be done with that and move on to something.

Speaker 1: Well, and how about those slates or the full body turnarounds that take 30 seconds?

Speaker 2: There's no need. There's no need. What I would recommend, and this might not be practical for some people, is make a slate that you use with all of your self-tapes. So it's not one that you're doing every single time. It's nicely done. Maybe you've done it at a studio. It's six seconds long, the whole thing.

Speaker 1: But how do you know? Because I'm going to disagree with you. Because how do you know what they look like right now, especially if they have to have facial hair or something?

Speaker 2: Well, I'm assuming that they're going to have one that is real. It can't be three years old.

Speaker 1: No, or they've lost a ton of weight or gained a ton of weight.

Speaker 2: Something like that. You are completely right about that. It has to look like them. But it'll take me out of it when you see the backdrop and then they zoom out, and then I see everything else around, and I'm like, are they in their basement? Or what are you? I don't think they spent any of that time. Well, I think the idea is to see you, right?

Speaker 1: I mean, if you were the actor, to see you, actor, completely 100% and concentrated on you and listening to you and your interpretation of the character. So if there's anything that's distracting from that, whether it's huge earrings or whether it's wardrobe, that's completely inappropriate. We do a lot of period stuff and you're wearing like some football jersey that's bright green or something like that. It's not going to work because it takes you out of it. So it's about not disrupting that connection with the viewer. That's really.

Speaker 2: So do you prefer the slate at the end so that you're going right into the scene?

Speaker 1: Yeah, well, what we do is we actually ask for the slate separately completely. So we choose to see it or not choose it. But do they always give it to you that way? Um, well, I think not, but you'd have to talk to the office because they are the lovely, lovely source. I'm the one editing a lot of times.

Speaker 2: So I'm like, grr.

Speaker 1: Well, it isn't. It takes hours and hours to fix anyone's. I mean, especially if they're not labeled, we have a whole nother, you know, labeling.

Speaker 2: Make it easy for the process. Exactly, exactly.

Speaker 1: As easy as you can make it for the process. So assuming that all the technical things are correct, you can see them, you can hear them, you know, the background is okay and they're framed properly and the camera's at eye level and all that.

Speaker 2: The framing is huge, though. Like, on a self-tape, when someone's looking at it on a phone, it has to be a close-up. Yes, like here.

Speaker 1: But do you want the top of the head cut off

Speaker 2: or too close? I don't need the top of the head cut off.

Speaker 1: No, I like it when it's right just above and just the tips of the shoulders. And so you can really see what those thoughts are.

Speaker 2: And I'm getting used to the readers being your children or your mother, I'm learning.

Speaker 1: How about the tape recorder reading?

Speaker 2: I would prefer not to hear the line. I would prefer them to just have a space and just give me all the lines. The tape recording, for me personally, and I know this is a personal thing, that takes me out of it.

Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I don't mind the tape recording when it's far away from the camera, but when it's next to the camera and it's way louder than the person auditioning, it blows my ears out and I can't stand it.

Speaker 2: I also don't want to worry about the actor and their timing and are they gonna get their line out? Because you can see they're stressed about that.

Speaker 1: Do you think if they have a reader or not a reader, but they're still looking into eyeballs, do you think eyeballs are better than nothing?

Speaker 2: I agree. I think eyeballs change the focus. So even if you cut Uma Thurman's eyes out of a magazine and place them somewhere, you should be landing on eyeballs.

Speaker 1: I agree. I absolutely agree, especially with Skype too. All of that. Oh yeah, yeah. All right, so that said, that's all the technical stuff. What about their performance? Do they have to get their performance perfect?

Speaker 2: This is just what we discussed. It depends on the project. A lot of times it doesn't have to be perfect. It can be a work in progress and I'm fine if they're holding the sides. We're just seeing if we can bring them in in person later on or if we can have a redirect over Skype or something like that. But it totally depends on the project. I can't.

Speaker 1: That's interesting. I've found when hiring off of a tape, if someone makes the wrong choice, but they've made a really strong choice and you can tell they're a fabulous actor, they will still get the part over someone who makes the right choice, but maybe it's a little looser or maybe it doesn't really feel like they're that committed or whatnot. At least the conversations I've had with the director in those cases, they're like, oh, but this is a better actor, but they made the wrong choice. Yeah, that's always the conversation. This is the better actor. Yeah, and I'm like, yeah, that's always the conversation. And this actor, just give them the direction on the set and I swear they're gonna be able to handle it.

Speaker 2: And that's also where we come in as casting directors from this market. We know the actors and the directors don't always know them. So you can also inform that director. Yeah, they can, it'll be no problem on set. You can direct them. You'll get whatever you need or whatever, you know? Yeah, perfect.

Speaker 1: All right, hopefully I think that answers. I think that answers that question really well, actually. Now you've saw it, guys, behind the scenes. You heard it, not saw it, heard it, right? Yeah. Okay, thanks for watching. Thank you.