Speaker 1: Lisa's with us in Chicago. Hi Lisa, how are you? How you doing? Good. How can we help?

Speaker 2: So, I'm in the middle of negotiating my salary for a new job and I'm a little bit, don't know how to handle it or how to take it from here and to give you a little bit of background, I'm in a dead-end IT job, so I decided to go somewhere else plus get a certification. So my next job, I asked for, I currently make 73 base, I asked for 83, but they're not willing to pay more than 75, so that's where I'm at right now.

Speaker 1: How big a company is this? It's big.

Speaker 2: Big? Yes, financial, they're in the financial industry.

Speaker 1: Okay, alright. Well, you probably got your number, you just need to decide if you want to work there. I doubt that they're going to do a bunch of negotiating. I think they've told you what they're going to do. You might get a little bit out of this, but the way to posture and position yourself so you don't harm yourself into a brand new job, you don't automatically end the honeymoon before it starts, is just switch shoes for a minute. If you were that supervisor that's interviewing you or that company that's interviewing you, why would you give you more money? I want it is not a reason.

Speaker 3: And I had a magic number in my head that they didn't meet, doesn't make them a bad person. I was the worst. I would have a magic number in my head and it was so, sometimes it was ludicrous and then the boss would come in and offer me, hey, here's a job and here's $5,000 less than your magic number and I would feel that as a loss, like they had taken something from me. Right? That's how I feel. Yeah, they'd offer me a job. And so you just have to decide, do I want to change my life for $2,000 and a big company that if you go in there and bust it and do great work and provide value, will increase your salary over time in different roles and professional responsibilities, right?

Speaker 1: So the way I would approach it is I would just ask the hiring supervisor that you're talking to or whatever the phrase is that you use. How could I add more value in this position that would make me more valuable? That would make you guys want to pay me more. I don't want you to give me more money just because I think I deserve it because I breathe air. I'm willing to do things that are moral and reasonable, extra. I'm willing to add elements to this that make me more valuable to this company. And then what would be the thing I would need to, well, you'd need to get this certification. Great. Can we agree that when I get this certification, then it comes with an automatic raise that matches that and I'll go get the certification. And you can start at the lower position and then go get the certification six months later and get your raise, right? Or whatever. But you're asking, you're not asking them to give you something because you're entitled in any way.

Speaker 2: No, I'm not. I don't feel that way at all.

Speaker 1: I know. And so make sure you're vocalizing it that way. How can I, how can I add value that, because I would really like to make 80, but I don't expect you to pay me that or 85, I don't expect you to pay me that unless there's a reason. And so I'm asking you, what would I need to do to be worth 85 or 80 or whatever for you guys? Because I'd really like to get there. Help me, because I'm all about personal growth, I'm all about getting better, and I'm all about making sure that I make you more than I cost you. Okay.

Speaker 2: Well, thank you. I appreciate it.

Speaker 3: Sure. And I think, Dave, that wisdom is good because she enters into a conversation that's with, not against, and she might find out, oh man, we pay this, this is a big company, and so we pay this band of employee X and Y, and you're at the top of that range, but we're going to move you. So you find out, actually, they're capping the value that they can, but, so you find out a lot of stuff when it's, we're on the same side, but when we're across the negotiating table, then it's got to be you versus me, right?

Speaker 1: Well, a negotiation properly done of any kind is not put up your dukes. That's right. It's not, I'm going to take from you so that I get more. It's not a zero-sum game. In other words, if she brought in an extra million dollars in revenue to that organization, would they gladly give her more money? Absolutely. In a heartbeat. Yeah. You know, most of them would anyway. Some of them are too stupid to do that, but most of them, most companies, small, large, anything, and so it's like, we go win together. I tell folks around here, if you leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home, I will share it with you. Right. I'm not greedy, but also not going to pay you. One guy go, well, you need to pay me this because I've got all these degrees, and I'm like, you got more degrees than a thermometer. I mean, it was like, and I'm like, dude, your raise is effective when you are. Right. You know, this is a small business. So all negotiations are how can we get to where we want to be together, even if you're buying something from somebody.

Speaker 3: How do you keep, once I sit across the table from somebody, my hackles come up. Yeah. How do you bring it into a competition?

Speaker 1: Well, the problem is, if my deal becomes not beating him, my deal becomes, my win is when I get the deal done. Okay. Not that I destroy him.

Speaker 3: Not that I got him to take $5,000 less, but then we should cancel. How did I get the deal done? Because you win because I got it.

Speaker 1: And it's not a back and, see, if you get into a one-dimensional thing on a negotiation where it's just like a price on, you're buying a car from somebody, and the price is this, and you go, okay, well, I'll give you this. Well, I'll take that. Well, back, and you go back, you know, it's just back and forth until you meet, and then you go, well, we'll split the difference or whatever. And you go back and forth with this verbal ping pong, balls on your side and balls on my side. And every time we get a little bit closer, finally someone goes, enough, this is it, that you've reached my point. You got my number. And you go, okay, I'm in or I'm not. But if you can make it about something else, you know, it's not just the price, okay. For instance, I'm used to, you know, buy a lot of foreclosures or buy a lot of real estate. And I would tell people in those days, house has been sitting on the market for a while. We will close it this afternoon for cash. Now that matters.

Speaker 3: Yes. You lighten their load a little bit.

Speaker 1: This is just, we're done. You got money tonight to go buy a lobster dinner, baby. I mean, this is today. You've been screwing around with this house for six months. You're behind on your payments tonight. And in return, what do I get? Price. A good house. Yeah, yeah. I get a good price. I get a good price. But the immediacy is a different factor than price. And so you add other factors into the equation when you're negotiating. And in her case, the factor we're adding in is how can I add value to where you wish that I was here? You're happy that I'm here. What can I do to be the best team player you've ever had on the team? And what does it look like to be, as our friend Pat Lincione says, the ideal team player?