Speaker 1: Jocko got a quest

Speaker 2: He actually wrote that. Yeah, he did. Yeah, he's fully in the game Got a quest

Speaker 1: How would you deal with a team member who tries to take all the responsibility, but cannot do as good a job as others? I don't know if it's sincere helpfulness Or a desire of power these are for power. Ooh

Speaker 2: See there's a little twist on that one Yeah, a little twist that puts a lot on that question right there And so you got a guy that's one trying to take all this responsibility for everything I'm not really as good as he should be to be in that position, but trying to take responsibility and yet the person that's got the quest He doesn't know if it's sincere trying to just help out the team or a desire for power. So Is it helpfulness or is it their quest for power? Where are they coming from? How do we figure that out? well For one thing if someone is truly trying to help the team They will have an open mind to support and suggestion and help from other people They'll be open to that because they're just trying to do the best for the team If they're trying to take or maintain power Which as we know is driven by ego. They don't want help And they don't want suggestions from people either. They're just gonna do it my way. I got this. No, it's mine Mm-hmm. So that's the difference. So there's gonna be two different ways that I'm gonna handle this situation So for a person that's actually trying to help and trying to do a good job. I'm gonna bolster him up I love it. The fact that they have some shortfalls. That's okay. You know, I'm gonna do them to give them some support I'm gonna put some people on their team that can help cover some of those shortfalls I'm gonna try and set them up to win and learn and be educated while they are winning And If they're humble Which I'm assuming that they are because they have this attitude that they're trying to help out everyone Then while I'm doing this whole process, of course I'm coaching them and I'm mentoring them and giving them suggestions and I'm turning to someone that can do a good job in that situation So that's pretty easy. You got somebody that wants to take ownership and responsibility and they're doing it for the right reasons. Boom. Let's help them out Let's support them. Let's get them training. Let's get them knowledge and let's get them up to speed We got an upcoming leader. I dig it If it's an ego driven person and they are maneuvering for the power Well, then what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna let them get humbled by the experience because remember it's stated that they're not as good As they could be at this job. They're not particularly good at what they're trying to take control over. So that's fine I'm gonna let him get humbled by it Now I'm gonna assess the risks. I'm gonna make sure that No one's gonna get hurt or no one's gonna get killed or we're not gonna fail a mission or in the business world Make sure they're not gonna lose millions of dollars We're not gonna suffer come some kind of a strategic setback, but I'm gonna let them fail a little bit and Let them see that they're not as good as they think they are. I'm gonna let them learn about humility Right, I'm gonna let them learn about humility now if they learn If they are humbled by that and they realize that they're not as good as they realize that they're not ready to control everything and they realize that they need help if they learn from it, and they don't just Cast blame then they'll become a much better leader you will actually help them by letting them get humbled if They just get done, and they just cast blame then We see them fail and now we have legitimate reason to say look. I can't put you in charge. You just failed I can't allow this to happen again so that's how I would basically handle that situation now, of course, there's all different kind of gradations of Of those realities and the answer will be somewhat scaled as well, right? So you that's what you do you scale the answer Maybe you give this person a little bit of help, but you know, let them stumble a little bit You know, maybe you're not gonna give him any help at all. You know, I'm falling flat on their face Maybe you're gonna bolster them up a lot, but you're still gonna talk to him and say hey listen You need to step back and get more in the weeds on some of the lower-level stuff because you're not ready to manage this yet You know so it's cool, but that's my basic overall Concept of where I would be going with that. Do you find that?

Speaker 1: Like even with the expression extreme ownership or in this case take all the responsibility do you find that Not people get confused, but you know yeah, like people will kind of get confused. You know how you say okay take Responsibility because it seems like anyway from what I told think I totally understand with extreme ownership is Sort of For the mistakes and the solution Yes, right that is a dream ownership, so and then but then it from what I heard like sometimes when people ask questions It'll kind of this one's kind of ambiguous but sometimes people will ask it ask a question or make a statement comment whatever in terms of take responsibility or take ownership of like Not of the problems or the solutions, but but like before them is like this is my

Speaker 2: Yeah, this is my you can overstep you can be you can use too much extreme ownership. You can say hey This is my echo. This is my mission. I'll tell you how to do it. No No input from you. That's all me. Yep. Yeah, and by the way, I'm taking all the credit too And we get back which is actually equally wrong, right? I should do is say hey, I will echo I'm in charge of this. But hey, man, I want you to come up with a good plan I think you've got a great insight. I think you know the terrain better than me Can you come up with a good plan and then we get back if it's if it's a successful mission I'm like hey guys everyone look what echo did and I said I tell the commanding officer echo ran this great operation I think he's ready to step up in leadership. He really did a superb job if it fails What am I doing pointing the finger at echo? No? I'm coming back and said hey boss. Here's a mission failure These are mistakes. I made here's what I did wrong. Here's what I'm gonna fix next time. That's real simple

Speaker 1: So would you say in a nutshell? extreme ownership applies to The problems and the solutions to those problems, and that's all no it applies to everything it applies to everything because

Speaker 2: Even when I say hey echo. I want you to come up with a plan for this Yeah, you come back and brief me with a plan. I still take ownership of the plan It's your plan, but I go through it. I say okay. This looks like a good move. Hey echo I'm looking at this right here. I don't know if this is the best way to execute this Here's the issue so I'm not taking ownership of it that I'm pulling it away from you But I'm definitely gonna make sure we win. I That's the thing that drives me crazy. Sometimes with leaders is They don't realize it, but they're making excuses because they'll say oh, you know, I let I let me I'm decentralized command So I I can't control everything No Actually, you are responsible for everything and if I got three teams out there and you're one of the team leaders and I come to You and say hey echo. Here's the plan. I want you to execute. I Still have to look at the plan I still have to make sure that I agree with what you're doing have to make sure you're not doing something that doesn't make Makes sense. So I yes, I do have ownership of the plan. Yeah, absolutely Like it's your family member or something. Yeah, that plan is like it's I love it like a son Yeah, the plan is the plan you came up with a plan you created it. It's my grandkid. Yeah, right Yeah, so you're it's yours, but I'm still gonna take responsibility and ownership about you but where people It's when your ego starts flaring up and I start saying no, it's my plan and we're doing my way That's where we have issues. Yeah, but yeah, the ownership doesn't stop And it just doesn't stop when you're in a leadership position. It doesn't stop you own everything up and down the chain of command It's hard to do. It's hard on your ego for sure

Speaker 1: Yeah, cuz it kind of seems in a way counter into I guess if you understand though They'll all the little subtle dynamics of it because you know how like if the plan fails boom That's when the extreme ownership is really gonna show its head, but if it's a super successful flawless plan It doesn't it's more covert because it's more internal because you got to give the credit for sure everyone else everyone will sit there and go

Speaker 2: Oh Jocko's you know he's he's given the credit to echo for the operation. You won't show up as extreme ownership for sure it'll be harder to see yeah, and People will say dang People know that I was in charge right they know I'm the overall guy, so I'm still gonna get some credit right It's more covert, but but it's way more covert, and it's better. Yeah, better, right That's that's the heart on the inside That's what's so hard for people to realize they want so bad to raise their hand and say yes It was me. It was my yeah, it's my operation, but it doesn't help you. It doesn't help you It feels good for like half a second and then you realize you just deflated yourself

Speaker 1: Is that kind of like when you make a donation to charity, but you want like everyone to know that you did it It's kind of like that. Yeah, I guess it's similar to that similar concept right like in a weird kind of profound way

Speaker 2: Yes, we'll just move on to the next question the profoundness of your last

Speaker 1: On a certain level, it's the same thing because you know you did something good You know or you are something good or whatever, but it's like saying. I'm I'm the most humble guy in the world

Speaker 2: You know I'm just super down here. Here's the other thing about this when I give you the credit for success Yeah, not only do I win? Covertly in that you look at me and go man. He gave me a couple corrections that were critical does operation He's not even saying anything so you have even more respect for me, which means you're gonna work harder for me in the future Yeah, you're gonna do even more and we're gonna look even better, so I am gonna ultimately win Yeah, because my team is gonna be kicking so much ass all over the globe and people say wow you know this these guys Are just winning everywhere they go well, and and and so it's very very positive whereas If I took that credit from you on that first operation, and I took it from you How hard are you working on that next one? Not as hard not as hard, you know, maybe you're a great guy Yeah, maybe you're a great guy, but you're just a great guy, but you're still not gonna go that extra little edge You're not gonna do it cuz you're not gonna get credit and you're not gonna do it cuz you don't care that much about making Me look good as you would if I was taking care of you Yeah, there's nothing better than having guys that you're taking care of They know you're taking care of them and they're gonna do anything for you. They're gonna do anything They're you you know, and you'll do anything for them. It's a mutual thing. It's real. Yeah, it's a real thing. Yeah

Speaker 1: It's like the gift that keeps on giving it is

Speaker 2: You know, that's why the book's been so popular and it's and it's it's why the book has been so popular because When you when you break it down and people see what it does, they realize how powerful it is yeah, and it's and it's also, you know, another reason that the book is so popular is because We put it in a very clear way. Yeah, and it's easier to understand It doesn't make it easier to execute, but it makes it easier to understand for sure. Yeah

Speaker 1: It's crazy too high and someone said It might have been someone at the muster. I don't know could could have very well been on Twitter I don't know but oh someone was saying how it's so interesting how They started to realize that it applies to their relationship with their like husband or wife or for sure like that And I always kind of look at all this stuff is primarily that you know because I mean who do I especially now? Who do I work with you? Like I don't go through these extreme ownership struggles, you know with you So it's more you know so to me everything up just applies to like your relationship with your wife my whatever

Speaker 2: You know so and it all translates all of it does yeah when you take ownership of stuff You it's when you take ownership of stuff, then you can control the outcome. Yeah, it's crazy You don't own it. You don't get anywhere. Yeah, and that that

Speaker 1: You know, you have a I don't know disagreement argument any any ripples in the water where the instinct is to point fingers You know, but when you even though the other person is really in the grand scheme of things you're both to blame I know that but They do have their huge role in the issue in the problem. Don't do that Don't even pay attention to that All you've got to do is shine the light on your own things and say don't I mean and how you say don't be don't Like be hard on yourself, you know, like that kind like the guy I suck. I suck. It's not that it's no like This is what I could do exactly, right? So what's interesting is and you said it from the beginning, but it is interesting to just watch it play out So it's almost fun, but it's more just real interesting where when you do it, and you just keep doing it You always do it. That's thing consistently do it You just watch how the other person just changes Yeah, and just becomes kind of the same thing and before you know it like the ripples in the water are pretty much gone

Speaker 2: Yeah, and what's you need someone in the team has got to start doing it. Yeah, that's one of the hardest things Yeah, occasionally we'll work with a company where everyone's like oh yeah extreme ownership No one is actually doing it when no one is actually doing it And all they're saying is like I wish that guy who had extreme ownership and that guy should have extreme ownership And I don't see anyone else taking that ownership, and hey I haven't seen anyone else taking ownership Therefore how can I take ownership? You know we send out when we work with a company will send out surveys You know pre class surveys and in post because we'll do a number of sessions So we'll send out to the leadership team that we're working with How's it going? And we'll we'll send out a week later two weeks later three weeks later four weeks later And sometimes when you get a team where no one is taking ownership and and literally you'll hear people say well The boss isn't taking ownership. So how can I take ownership if the boss isn't even taking ownership? They don't realize That when your boss isn't taking ownership, it is an opportunity Opportunity for you to take ownership and to excel and to gain respect and trust and power and Power which is a good thing because you're doing things for the good of the team. So you want to have power I want to have power when I'm when I'm a team leader I absolutely want to have power and the reason I want to have power so I can distribute it properly amongst my team And I can utilize it so we can be successful in our mission So when you have your CEO isn't taking ownership Awesome. I'm gonna take ownership and when the rest if the CEO is truly not taking ownership and I do Everyone else looks at me and they start to I elevate my position that CEO becomes irrelevant Because all he's doing is sitting around pointing fingers. I'm taking ownership of things and solving them I'm actually gonna end up in a superior position now. I might not get promoted the CEO Today or tomorrow or in two years, but when this Information gets back to the board or to the directors or whoever they realize that there's one person that's mutually respected by everybody And that's you because you took ownership And when you take ownership you solve problems, and when you solve problems you win But somebody has got to start it Yeah, and it's hard sometimes in some situations you get the the what's that word they use like the caustic environment Right toxic the toxic environment where everyone's just so So defensive about it, and it's difficult Those are the difficult situations to work with you and all it takes is the transition of one Human one person in that team to step up and say you know what? This stuff that's going wrong is my fault CEOs. Don't worry about him. He's got enough problems He's got a deal with the he's got a deal with the shareholders meeting. We don't we need to protect him Yeah, you know what? This is my fault that this happens and here's what we're gonna do to fix it Here's what I'm gonna do and that just changes the attitude and and of course You're gonna have two or three people in that defensive toxic environment that are gonna look at him go. Yeah, it's right It is your fault. You know what you say to that. Yeah. Yes, you're right. It is It is my fault and here's what I'm gonna do fix it. Here's how I'm gonna move forward Here's what we're gonna do to change But it's hard to be that person take that first step and then you got to keep that going, you know

Speaker 1: But again, man after a little bit you see the guy next you

Speaker 2: In extreme ownership the book it It's pointed out but it's not super crystal clear that when I was taking blame for the blue on blue that happened Everyone else was too. You know, those guys were saying hey, it was my fault. I did this It was my fault. I did this yeah, and that was cuz that was that wasn't the first time these guys had seen or heard Ownership, you know when we were going through training and something was screwed up. I'd be like hey. This is my fault That's what it and so everyone had that really good attitude. Yeah, so and that happens in a company So what you're saying it does it that's one of the best things about this idea this principle of extreme ownership is it spreads? Throughout the company and will you get? People on the team that will not take ownership of things. Yes, of course you will you will get that person and Eventually, they will either leave or you will fire them One of the two things will happen because when you have a person when you got the whole team is going no It's my fault and eventually everyone's oh you oh you that's not your responsibility. Cool. I'll take that Oh echo You can't handle that cool. That's not your fault. Okay, then I'll take it and fix it. Oh, you can't handle that either It's not your fault. Okay, I'll take that and fix it. Eventually. You don't have a job anymore Yeah, so if you want don't want to take ownership of things including problems I will take ownership of all of them, and I'll eventually take your job in your world, and it'll be mine It's phased right now phase you right out like you weren't even there That's what's gonna happen so Yes, it's a powerful powerful tool. Yeah, and the other thing is You see like you see politicians do it all the time They don't take ownership when they make a mistake and when they do it's sort of this lip service of it was my fault It was my fault that this happened, but right right, but blah blah blah blah blah blah and all anyone hears is blah blah blah blah Blah blah like once as soon as you say, but and then you make a bunch of excuses. That's all anybody hears Yeah, and there's just it's so weak Yeah, it's so weak to do that and it sounds when like you said when you get used to hearing it When you get used to hearing people take ownership of things when somebody doesn't it sounds like Satan is screaming out of their mouth and and just Horrible it sounds awful. It's like a it's like a cacophony of

Speaker 1: Just sickness right that's what it is. Yeah, it stands out for sure you know when we're at the muster

Speaker 2: It's like I was talking about how when you start taking ownership of things When you start having this attitude when when you feel yourself about to make a mistake Like you feel like you're gonna throw up in your mouth it's like you it's like you it's like Vomit is coming out of your mouth No, you don't get back down because you don't want to let that puke out onto the floor and let everyone see it Yep, it's not allowed. That's all it is when you blame everyone else. It's all it is it happens all the time and it's so it's it's the did it's it's like the other thing I talked about with with um Stepping back and and how you step back off the line and how much visibility you have as soon as you step back off the Firing line as soon as you just elevate yourself six inches above what's happening It's the same thing when you start to take ownership. It's like the change It's just this little change But it just completely changes the dynamic of what is going on in your business and in your life In your life because when it's the same thing in life when people are blaming everyone else they're blaming the market and they're blaming their parents and they're blaming the the Debt that they built up and they're blaming the car that broke their blaming everything else that's going on Yeah, and when you own all you and everything when nothing is your fault, what are you gonna fix? The answer is you're not gonna fix anything. Whereas if you go, okay, these are some mistakes that I made and here's what I'm gonna do to fix them That's the paradigm change, and that's where you start getting on the right path

Speaker 1: The muster your line at the muster I included it in the video Favorite line, I think says sure I'll take the blame, and I don't care I have a mission took to accomplish, and I got to get the problem solved. Yeah, that's what it was yeah Yeah, I will take the blame, and I don't care I

Speaker 2: I don't care. Bring it. Bring it.