Speaker 1: So we do often prefer to hire people who are green and bring them in and teach them. And that is why my entry-level ad is so focused on growth. It's because I need him to come in or her to come in, and I need them to learn how to become the next tree climber or the next CDL driver. And I want to support them in that process.

Speaker 2: Welcome to Jobber's Masters of Home Service, a podcast for home service pros by home service pros. We are in sunny Las Vegas. Today we're bringing you tips for overcoming hiring challenges. I'm Adam Sylvester. Today's guest is Danielle Rossi.

Speaker 1: Thank you so much. We are the Tree Lady Company.

Speaker 2: The Tree Lady Company.

Speaker 1: The Tree Lady Company in Central Florida.

Speaker 2: So what do you guys do?

Speaker 1: We are a tree care service. So our primary focus is preservation. That is our favorite area to work in. We do offer removals as well when necessary, but we really focus on educating the community in proper tree care, trying to make sure that new trees are going in the right spots. We're hoping to be someone who helps preserve the trees that we've got in our community. So awesome.

Speaker 2: Well, I'm glad you're here. I love tree care. Tree care is dear to my heart. One, because it's kind of a cousin to landscaping. And two, a lot of buddies in tree care. I love trees. Yes. So anyone who cares for trees, I'm a big fan of. Okay. So today we're talking about overcoming hiring challenges. We all know, anyone listening out there, you and I both know it's tough to hire. It's always been hard to hire. It's not just now. And so what are some things that we can do to make hiring a little bit easier?

Speaker 1: One of the things that I think business owners forget is important is really taking time to understand the role that you're looking to fill and market it to potential employees in a way that they can see the benefit and the positive aspects of working for you before they ever speak to you. Yeah. When I first joined the Tree Lady company, we were just kind of perusing the industry ads to see what ads we'd put out when we needed a grounds person or a CDL driver. And we would get, you know, five or six responses. Everything that we'd put in the ad was very much, this is what we need you to do. This is what we're willing to pay you to do it. Because that's what the industry does.

Speaker 2: Very bland, very vanilla.

Speaker 1: Very vanilla, very straightforward and money-based. And attracting top talent, you can't just speak to figures. That's not what brings people in. If they're a quality employee, a quality person, they are motivated by much more than just money. Obviously, that is important. But in the ad that we typically put out now, money is one of the last things that I speak to in our ad. I talk about the exciting aspects of the tree care industry, flying through the treetops and learning a skill that can be taken with you anywhere. It also, of course, talks about the harder or dirtier parts of the job. But we really try to focus on the visuals of working in this industry. There's so much to be inspired by. There's always a bigger picture to be working toward. And you have to take the time to figure out what aspects of your business will resonate with the people that you want to bring in.

Speaker 2: Okay, so that's a great segue. Let's talk about job descriptions that work. Killer job descriptions. Because I think you and I both had a similar experience at some point in the past where we went from really humdrum, uninspiring, uncompelling job descriptions to realize that we spend all this money in marketing to clients and making sure our messaging is just right, it's compelling, and by our service. And then we post a $10 Craigslist ad and we wonder what's going on. And so we had to be compelling in our job descriptions too.

Speaker 1: Yes, 100%. It also matters how you were describing the role. That was something that until I started test running different job descriptions I didn't realize it mattered. I assumed the people that I needed to be reaching would know what the roles were called within the industry. Originally for our entry-level position we would advertise for a groundsman was our term. And we would get people that were very money-driven and willing to do hard physical labor for money. And our company is passionate and we have a lot of goals and we have a lot of big dreams that we're working toward. And someone who's just here to make money really can't support that goal. The first trial I did was switching the verbiage to an arborist apprentice. Which you have to be careful not to advertise an apprenticeship if it is not a registered apprenticeship. So we made it very clear in all of our ads this is an in-house apprentice program. But we wanted everyone coming in to know you're not coming in here just to rake yards. You're coming in here to learn and to grow and to become someone in this industry that can push these goals further. And that attracted a lot of people who were into the book aspect. So the arborist apprentice attracted a lot of people who wanted to study and learn to be an arborist. And even though it included in our ad it was a physical job as well it got missed a lot. Wasn't perceived. So what I found most success with it this time is a tree climber apprentice program. And that I used to get five or six responses to our ads and I put an ad out about a week and a half ago that I've received 115 responses to. So it's working. It is working. And one of our minimum requirements is a driver's license. Back in the day I might get half of the people that applied that didn't have a driver's license. And now you can't even apply without that. So it's a very, I put in the effort and put in the time to make sure that my ad was as descriptive and as visual as I could make it. And it has absolutely proven to me that it is worth the time it took to put together.

Speaker 2: Totally. And this is the first time that a lot of our listeners have even given it a second thought what their job descriptions are and their ads and their postings. And so what's usually in there? You have to go to work five days a week in the rain. You have to work, you know, lift a lot of heavy weight. You have to be strong and no drugs and be on time. And if you're on time, we'll fire you. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, why are you so aggressive?

Speaker 1: Yes, they're so aggressive. I see that across the board. They're very aggressive, very, what can you do for this company? And here's what we'll give you for it. You know, no one, not no one. I'm sure lots of companies do take some time and think about it. But generally when you search Indeed, you're seeing a lot of aggression, a lot of just cut and dry. This is what you got to do. This is what you'll make. And it really pays to just sit and think about what a day looks like in your business for that entry level person. And where do you want them to be in two years? Where do you want them to go? Is that, is your goal just to have them raking yards still? Then maybe don't focus on education and don't focus on growth. Focus on the consistency of that. That you've got a job that they can come into and they can expect the same thing every day. My husband works in printing. He does the same thing every day. He loves the consistency and, in my opinion, monotony. But that he loves that. And if that's what your role is that you're looking to fill, determine who your perfect candidate is and speak to that guy or girl.

Speaker 2: So you're saying that it should be a little inspiring. It should give them some sort of track. If you come in at this level, then you can become this level. Maybe a crew leader or maybe a manager or whatever. So there needs to be some sort of a, because here's the deal. And this was a big change for me. A lot of times, it's not the guy who's reading it. It's the girlfriend. It's the wife. Hey, get, you've been working for this bum boss for so long. Go get a new job. It's a dead end job. Go get a real job and go get somewhere you can actually grow and stuff. And so you actually have to cater it for two audiences.

Speaker 1: Absolutely. Right? Yes. And I think focusing on that growth speaks to the girlfriend as well.

Speaker 2: Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 1: Ours specifically is very visual.

Speaker 2: So what's in it? Give us examples or what's in your job description. I left my printout on my desk at home.

Speaker 1: But it starts, the first phrase in it is, would you like to know what it feels like to fly through the treetops? And it focuses on the visual, exciting nature first. And then it heavily focuses on what our company culture is. And so we speak to the fact that we have a solid crew that works well together. And one of the most important pieces when coming to apply for our job is working well with the crew. We don't want to bring in anyone that does not fit well because we have such a strongly bonded crew at this time. And we focus on the different traits that we're looking for. So you have to be motivated. You have to be willing to go out and take on new challenges every day.

Speaker 2: Danielle, this is a great conversation. I want to pause it for a minute and talk about Jobber. How does Jobber help you not only attract top talent, but keep them happy? And how has it overall made your company culture better?

Speaker 1: Before Jobber, we were using handwritten timesheets. And we did printed work orders. Everything was printed. Everything was on paper. Easy to lose, easy to damage, easy to have to bring back to me soggy because we had a rainy day. And Jobber has been incredible for inspiring confidence in new employees. When I bring them in and I onboard them, they're able to see the system that allows them to access timesheets. And it clocks them on automatically when they get to the job site. And they can refer back to see what their time was like throughout the week. If they have any questions or any concerns, if they forgot to clock in, it's easy to go in and make adjustments. Also, just ease of access for work orders and seeing what's on the future. I have a lot of guys that will check the schedule to make sure that there's nothing scheduled if they have to request time off. Or it's just it's so intuitive and so helpful. And it gives them confidence in answering some questions for themselves. You know, if they want to come in and ask me, Hey, can I get off early on Friday? They can see if I've got a $6,000 crane job scheduled that day. And it just gives them a lot of control and a lot of access to a lot more than they would traditionally have with most other services.

Speaker 2: Yeah. For me, employees do not like chaos. They want order. You want them to be able to come in and see their entire schedule, be able to tap a GPS button, take them there. Want to see all the instructions, all the photos instead of like, Hey, boss, where we're going today? And the boss text them the address and go figure it out. None of that. Jobber eliminates all that. You can eliminate the chaos in your business by going to jobber.com podcast deal. New users can get an exclusive discount. Eliminate the chaos and get order today with Jobber. I love that you're talking about company culture and values because here's the thing. If you have an aggressive job description, you'll get aggressive people, right? And if you have a job description that lacks values, then you'll attract people who lack value. And so core values, I should say. And so how have you blended those in? How do you work those out? Do you just tell people what they are? Do you elaborate? What does that look like?

Speaker 1: I elaborate 100%. The people that I'm looking to attract are people who want to learn. So if they can't get through my wordy job description, they probably are not going to be interested in sitting through our safety meetings every Wednesday and reading through our ANSI standards. They're probably not interested in taking the time if they can't even make it through that initial job description. Of course, every business is looking for different types of people. So you have to determine what is your best fit and focus on that in your job description. But I elaborate more narratively. So I do have our core values listed out. But more than that, I describe what a day looks like for us. And how our team works together. And how they're going to be stepping into the role that I'm looking to have filled. I am very descriptive. And I would much rather give too much information than too little information. And it's worked really well for us.

Speaker 2: Good. Yeah, I mean, you can just state what your values are. You could. And that's, you know, some stuff. But if you really, that's in black and white. If you fill in with color. Yes. And people will think, like, they'll start to put themselves in that picture. That's your deal. As the person in charge of hiring, if you have a good culture, you have to protect that. Absolutely. And you can't just let anybody in to ruin it. You know, you have to make sure you keep all the bad people out and bring the good people in. And having the core values in there is the first step. And then, of course, once you start doing hiring, interviewing, all that kind of stuff, you make sure that they read all those and make sure they align. But if someone doesn't align with those values, they will immediately weed themselves out. And that's what you want.

Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely. I want to weed them out before they ever even apply for the job. And then, because we've got so much larger pool to sort through, it's much easier to find early on who fits well. Even in the initial phone call, you know, our first step is making sure that they're approved to drive through our insurance. So I receive an application. My first call is to say, hey, we received the application. We'd love to talk with you further. Our first step is getting you approved with our insurance company. I'll know in that first phone call if, half of the time, if they are someone who is going to be enthusiastic about our vision or someone who is just kind of applying for any job they can get. And I think because our listing is so narrative and so descriptive, if you're not excited about reading it, you're not really excited about applying for us. You're just looking to put another resume out.

Speaker 2: What are some of the common things that, you know, pretty much everyone we hire really cares about X, Y, and Z? Like they, in the tree, they care. Things that they might have had bad experiences with other companies, like things they really care about. What do tree people really care about? What are they looking for in a job description? I'm curious what those are.

Speaker 1: The industry as a whole attracts people who like money. So across the board, the industry attracts people that are willing to be a little risky to take home a high dollar figure. I think that's why I have to be so specific in my tailoring because we pay well for our areas.

Speaker 2: So the pay is in the job description? Pay is in the job description.

Speaker 1: We definitely include that in there. But I want to make sure that the people I am attracting are working toward a greater goal in their own lives. So the people that I've got currently on my team that are top talent, they are excellent, loyal employees. What I'm looking for and I'm hoping that my ad speaks to in them is just passion and the ability to work toward a goal. It's difficult to speak for the industry and then speak for what we're looking to attract because they don't really coincide.

Speaker 2: Interesting. Elaborate on that more. I know where you're going with that.

Speaker 1: So the industry as a whole is known for thrill seekers. You've got a lot of people that will come in and they are, unfortunately, it often attracts...

Speaker 2: They're not the kind of people you want to have over for dinner. Correct. Their lifestyles don't really match.

Speaker 1: Exactly. Maybe this is specific to our area. I suspect it's probably not. It's usually people that have a reason to need money really fast. So be that drug dependencies or otherwise, there are reasons that they're willing to work in one of the most dangerous fields and that's to take home money. So when that is not who is being attracted, I think that it is either a passion for the green industry or it is seeing the validity of tree care as a career. It is an incredible career. And if we as a whole in this industry can find a way to make the career more sustainable, I think it would attract people whose goal is to preserve trees and protect the environment. And there are people who just really love to get outside and get dirty, you know, and they like to go out and see a challenge in front of them and have it on the ground and clean up by the end of the day. So those are the people that I'm looking to attract in our business is the ones that appreciate the excitement of having a new challenge on the board every day. I myself could never be in printing. I like the thrill, the excitement of something different every day. We've always got a new challenge. We've always got a new task that the crew goes out in spite of whatever the circumstances are and gets it done because they want to. And that speaks to something within themselves.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think what you're describing, you said it well, is every industry, I think hiring people from industry, usually they have a lot of baggage. And so it sounds like if you do hire someone from the industry, it's rare to find someone who really matches your core values and fits in the culture that you have. And so it's probably easier just to find someone who's green and who has no experience in that industry.

Speaker 1: That's what we found. Yeah, every time I put an ad out, I get endless calls from people saying, you know, I've been in this business for 12 years. I've been doing this. Then you're unqualified. Yes, exactly. I mean, that really is sort of how it goes for me. I want to know above all else that you're willing to learn how to do it the way we do it because we focus so much on safety. That is something we are unwilling to compromise on. And especially in our area specifically, safety is not usually the primary focus. It's getting the job done. And we do not ever want... It's already one of the most dangerous fields you could be in. We do not ever want to cut a corner. We do not ever want to take unnecessary risks because when you're doing everything right, it's still dangerous. So we do often prefer to hire people who are green and bring them in and teach them. And that is why my entry-level ad is so focused on growth. It's because I need him to come in or her to come in. And I need them to learn how to become the next tree climber or the next CDL driver. And I want to support them in that process.

Speaker 2: Yeah. It sounds like your job description is subtle, but it's true. It's not geared towards people who've been doing this for 15 years. It's geared towards the green. Danielle, I want to talk about... Because you mentioned the pay is included, which is obvious. It's got to be in there. But it's not just pay. There's other compensation. There's other benefits to working here. For me, it's like we have nice uniforms. People like having uniforms, things like that. Do you include that kind of stuff?

Speaker 1: I skim it in the initial job listing. I do not elaborate on the additional perks. I am not looking to sell myself to any candidate that's interested. I'm looking to find the right fit. So I usually don't really elaborate on the benefits that we offer until they are sitting in front of me in their interview. And once I've determined that they would be a good match for us and they would be a good fit for our company, that's when I usually go into the benefits that we offer.

Speaker 2: Okay, interesting. So once you're in that meeting, in the interview with them, give me some examples. What are those? For your company specifically, what are some of those benefits?

Speaker 1: So we're still growing. And unfortunately, we've not made it to the point where we can offer health insurance and 401ks, which I'm absolutely working toward and I hope to be there soon. But we do offer paid time off. We have six paid holidays a year. After the first year, they've got one week paid vacation. And then we also do what we call a winter savings fund. So once you've been with the company, you can sign up and save a minimum of $10 a week. And the company will match $10 a week. So the employee puts that in at the end of the year. If they've only saved $10, we've matched $10. They've got a thousand bucks. I, myself, and many of the other employees like to save a little more. And the company will match up to 500. But then if you've been frugal throughout the year, you might have one or two or $3,000 that you've saved up as a second thought. It's something you sign up for at the start of the year. You never miss because it comes out of your check without you looking at it. And then you get a payout at the end of the year, which on profitable years, we also do profit sharing. But on years that we may not have much to give out to our employees, that's something that kind of buffers in the winter. One of the things that I really focus on is always keeping my crew at full time. So we spend... That's huge in that industry. Yes. And that is a challenge. Full time, year-round work, if possible. Yeah, absolutely. So if I have to stay at the office until 9 p.m. making phone calls to make sure that we have work on for the next day, I will do it through the entire year. So that is something that if someone is familiar with our industry, they know full-time work is not super common. Usually there is a lull in the winter.

Speaker 2: Or it's promised and it's not delivered. Exactly. I think you and I differ a little bit on this approach. I do like to put all of our perks in the job description. Because here's the deal. It'll attract all the people that we don't really want to hire, but it will tend to attract also the top talent in the industry. They say, wow, they have new vehicles. Wow, I'm driving a beater in my company. And so that does help some. It does open it up to getting more unqualified candidates. But I do want to get just that cream of the crop too. Oh, wow, this company has all these great perks.

Speaker 1: Absolutely fair. I think no one is ever the best leader that there is. I think everyone's always learning how to be a better leader, how to tailor the different pieces of their role to be better. It's never going to be the best. So if that works well for you guys, that I'm sure would also attract more top talent for us. It's the system that we found that works best in our location. But I'm sure that varies depending on where you are and who you have, looking at your job listing. I think it varies a lot with the types of candidates that you're looking for. So yeah, it's interesting that we have a different approach on that. But I think that just testing the waters and seeing what works best for your company is the way to do it. I am quick to change my job listing if something isn't working.

Speaker 2: You know, if you've tested, then you get like 30 people who say, oh, I saw on your ad that you have nice vans. And this guy is like, if you keep getting the wrong candidates, then you take it out, you know? Exactly.

Speaker 1: So that's how we've ended up where we are.

Speaker 2: Danielle, this is a great conversation. I want to boil it down to three actual steps here. Number one is you should care as much about your job description and your job posting as you do about marketing new clients. Hiring is just as important. So give it time, give it thought, and craft a really compelling job description. Number two is your quality candidate may not be coming from the industry. It might be someone who's completely green, and they have no baggage, no bad habits, and they are just waiting to work for someone who really cares and can develop them. Number three is good candidates, they care more than just money. Money is important, but they also care about values. They care about a good culture. All these other things that you can convey in the job description. Danielle, how do people find out more about you?

Speaker 1: You can find us at thetreeladycompany.com and at The Tree Lady Company on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok.

Speaker 2: Well, thanks for being here. I really appreciate it. I think that you're very inspiring. You really care about your people. You're making a big difference in Florida. Keep it up. Keep serving your clients. Keep serving your people. And thank you for listening. I hope you heard something today that will make your business more profitable and more efficient and make better job descriptions. I'm your host, Adam Sylvester. You can find me at adamsylvester.com. Your team and your clients deserve your very best, so go give it to them.