Speaker 1: President Biden says racial equity is one of the central pillars of his coronavirus relief plan. Promoting equity across the economy also means taking a look at equity in the federal workforce. Shirley Jones is the new president of Blacks in Government. She's managing associate general counsel at the Government Accountability Office. Shirley, welcome. It's great to see you again. Thanks for coming on the program. What are the organizations, in your view, that are doing diversity, inclusion and equity well across government doing? And what are the organizations that are struggling? What's the gap that they can fill to improve?

Speaker 2: Well, thank you for having me, Francis. First of all, the agencies that are doing well, they recognize that having a diverse and inclusive workforce is a more productive workforce. And they recognize that the more that they strive towards that, they're better able to accomplish their agency's mission. I also think those agencies that are doing well are actually willing to engage with organizations like Blacks in Government and other organizations like the Federal Asian Pacific Advisory Council so that we can partner with them on addressing inequities in recruitment, in development and in training. Those agencies that are lacking, in my opinion, are looking at their data through rose colored glasses and not planning, not having a diversity and inclusion strategic plan to assist them in being a more diverse workforce.

Speaker 1: As you were talking about the shortcomings there, Shirley, the word strategic came to my mind before you said it. How can organizations like yours help agencies that are looking to improve their performances, that are looking to do better, build that strategy?

Speaker 2: Absolutely. Organizations like Blacks in Government are designed to assist agencies in leveling the playing field. We have members all across the country that meet with agency officials. One of the things that we do all across the board is look at the agency's specific data and help them to highlight the gap. For example, the Office of Personnel Management issues a federal recruitment report, and we're often looking at that data. The data for African-Americans in particular suggests that the recruitment numbers are up, but they're up in the lower graded clerical administrative positions. And so organizations like Blacks in Government hope to show them where the data has those gaps and where they need to be looking at making improvement.

Speaker 1: One of the gaps that you've talked about since you have taken over the position of president at Blacks in Government is the disparity between what the raw numbers are across government and what the numbers look like in the higher grades and in the senior executive service. What what are the strategies that successful organizations are taking specifically at their very highest levels to make sure that those that the high levels of their organization are representative of the people they're delivering mission to?

Speaker 2: Of course, as I noted, those agencies have a plan, but it really starts with having what we call a feeder pool. And that means that those agencies at every rung of the career ladder, they're looking to have a diverse group of candidates that are ready to move up into those higher levels. And it takes them looking at what are the challenges that your agency has that prevent those employees at the lower grade levels from moving up into the higher grade?

Speaker 1: How much is a mentoring and personal development on an individual basis type of program important in this area?

Speaker 2: Surely. Oh, it's absolutely imperative, and that's definitely one of the things that Blacks in Government focuses on, of course, at the core of our mission is advocacy, but we also focus a lot on career development. We have internally developed programs that are now generation program that focuses on mentoring and networking. We have a leadership academy that was developed by the USDA Graduate School, and we also have our National Training Institute where we offer career development each year. And we'll do that later this year, Berkeley. But agencies need to focus on the same thing that we're focusing on in Blacks in Government. And that's why we're doing it, because we see that there's a lack of it across government.

Speaker 1: We just have a couple of minutes left. Shirley, I wonder what you are able to do and what your organization helps people helps your members with to get them prepared to be ready to go when an agency says it's time. How how does one successfully position him or herself to be able to step into the senior executive service and to be able to take on the very highest level assignments? What does one need to do to get into those positions?

Speaker 2: And that's exactly what we are indeed focusing on. Just last month, I myself did a class for our organization on leading change. And so what we're doing is helping our members and prospective members and indeed any employee that wants to join our efforts. We're showing them how to position themselves by making sure that they're getting the right developmental assignments. They're getting the appropriate training because we do believe that is definitely a part of it, making sure that you have the tools to succeed.

Speaker 1: Shirley Jones, Madam President, congratulations on your new job. Thank you very much for joining me today.

Speaker 2: Thank you. It was my pleasure.