Speaker 1: Let's talk about that autonomy comes with a need to probably track and measure, right? And I know that you know how to track any background in SEO. You know that you can't just talk about, oh, I just got some impressions. But how do you track and measure against those things to ultimately know this isn't working out? I mean, obviously, you get a feel for things, but what are the other metrics that you look

Speaker 2: at? So as exciting as marketing is, and we've stayed in this career for a long time because we love it, and it's fun, and it changes quickly, attribution is the plague of marketing. It's difficult to track, you know, of all the things that you do, what actually brought back the sales or the customers. For me, there's certain things that we can track 100%, and there's things that we can't. A lot of offline tactics are very difficult to track. But I can track the effort of the team. I can track the creativity. I can kind of measure that with my own judgment. We can track the level of campaigns, the amount of campaigns that people are trying and experimenting with. So we do a ton of experimentation. I've never been in a place that ran more variations of ads, and so that's important to me. That's something that I measure. And then the quality of the work and the conversion of the campaigns that people are putting out there. I can't walk through that whole funnel and say, most times, this person did better with their campaigns than this person. But I can measure the effort and the amount of testing and things like that. So those are core and important things that we watch.

Speaker 1: I think that's another big myth that people have, especially if you've had a successful campaign like the videos that you've done, is that there's a whole archive. Kind of want to go back to these ones that you hope never see the light of day. Are those logs somewhere publicly?

Speaker 2: Most of them are on our YouTube channel, but they're not public. So you might be able to find some of them.

Speaker 1: Oh, okay.

Speaker 2: So that's all I... Yeah.

Speaker 1: I can't believe I just shared that. But I do think that's a myth that when it comes to... We hear, I guess, what you were saying about, like, fail fast. We can say it, but to truly implement it, I mean, you're spending money. Every time that you test something and it fails, you know that that dollar's lost. So I think that's where people maybe pull back on the reins of testing in terms of, well, maybe let's just not test as much. What are your thoughts around that?

Speaker 2: I think it does depend on the industry somewhat. I mean, in the mattress world, we've really been able to... We've been enabled to do this because, you know, five years ago, nobody bought mattresses online and now, at minimum, 20% to 25% of the U.S. does.

Speaker 1: I showed you a photo from my long runs. It's like every other development I run through. It's purple box.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And I'm still bitter that it was upside down. The logo wasn't right.

Speaker 1: So... I thought... I was like, maybe I just need to turn that up.

Speaker 2: Yeah. We need to educate the UPS guys, right? I totally spaced on the question.

Speaker 1: Oh. I was talking about the myth of the testing and that, you know, holding back on that.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So, in this industry, it works because, you know, there's great margins and everybody sleeps. You can do very broad campaigns. In other categories I've been in, those testing dollars do shrink some. So, luckily, we're in the right industry that has the right, you know, margins and things that we can... Freedoms that we have. But if you're not testing, somebody's going to beat you. If you're not trying to test harder than somebody else, you're already losing. The campaign that worked for you either will fade due to how many people have seen it or lack of interest or... There's so many reasons that a campaign starts to depreciate. And every company and every ad campaign has a different duration. But in our world where we advertise pretty aggressively, if we don't... The minute something goes live, we're not working on something else, we're in trouble. I'm just a huge advocate for testing. I'm not seeing any evidence that doing more testing than somebody else doesn't provide us more value and more return.

Speaker 1: Right. And I think it's key when you're talking about the pipeline, like if you go live with somebody, you don't get to hang out for a couple months.

Speaker 2: I want to, but I can't. Right.

Speaker 1: You're probably so tired. I am very tired. When it takes to launch something.