Speaker 1: We've been talking about how quickly President Donald Trump is moving to reshape the federal government in his first week back in office. And one of the biggest takeaways here is that Trump is largely doing exactly what he said he would do on the campaign trail.

Speaker 2: But we're going to stop the destructive and divisive diversity, equity and inclusion mandates.

Speaker 1: For example, he has started to make good on that promise to root out DEI in the federal government.

Speaker 3: What they are doing is placing all these DEI workers on administrative leave starting at 5 p.m. and after next week some of them may be dismissed.

Speaker 1: A series of executive orders sent shockwaves through the federal workforce and civil rights groups who feared decades of work to advance diversity and equality in all aspects of American life are under threat.

Speaker 3: Perhaps even more interesting, the president with this executive order also sending the message to the private sector encouraging them to do the same.

Speaker 1: My guest is CNN's Rene Marsh. We're going to talk about how DEI became a dirty word on the right and why these executive orders could reverberate well beyond Washington, D.C. From CNN, this is One Thing. I'm David Rind. So Rene, what exactly are these orders from the Trump administration regarding DEI?

Speaker 4: So just within 24 hours or on day one, we should say, President Trump did it exactly what he said that he was going to do. And he signed this executive order which essentially aims to wipe out DEI, diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives across federal government. And we've started to see that process play out and play out rather quickly. We know that federal employees who work on DEI related issues across federal agencies have been told that they will be placed on paid administrative leave. Their access to their work email and computers, that's been shut off. And they have no sense as far as when this leave will end. We do know that within that executive order, it says that there should also be a plan in place for a reduction in force amongst these employees working on DEI. And in layman's terms, that essentially means that this executive order is instructing agency heads to come up with a plan to fire many of these individuals who work on DEI issues.

Speaker 1: I was going to say, that sounds like that leave could become permanent.

Speaker 4: Certainly that looks like that is the plan. And, you know, we've been reporting this, that the Trump administration, along with his Department of Government Efficiency, their goal is to thin out the federal workforce. They see that as a way to save money for the federal government. And this is the first target, people working on diversity, equity and inclusion. And and they also see this as an issue. It falls into the bucket of culture wars. You know, the president has said that this is a racist sort of initiative. DEI discriminates against other Americans, meaning white Americans. And he wants to do away with it.

Speaker 5: My administration has taken action to abolish all discriminatory diversity, equity and inclusion nonsense. And these are policies that were absolute nonsense.

Speaker 4: Saying that they want to create an America where everyone is equal.

Speaker 5: America will once again become a merit based country. You have to hear that word merit based country.

Speaker 4: And that's exactly what they're doing at this moment.

Speaker 1: Well, yeah. So can we take a step back? Because I think the name itself, DEI, has kind of like lost all meaning at this point because it's become so weaponized on the right. So how did we get to this point where the Trump administration is trying to wipe out every facet of DEI in the federal government?

Speaker 4: I mean, you see DEI in headlines quite a bit. And if you weren't paying attention decades ago, you'd think it's this sort of new thing. But the reality is diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives have been in place in the workplace for decades. And after affirmative action was passed back in the 60s by executive order, I should say, President Kennedy, a lot of workplaces started to intertwine diversity initiatives within the workplace, essentially to create an environment of inclusiveness, acceptance in which you may have employees, let's say minority employees working in a majority white workforce, giving them the resources and a safe space essentially. So, again, these sort of initiatives have been in workplaces for decades.

Speaker 6: Streets across the nation uneasy as protests continue for an eighth straight day.

Speaker 4: But it wasn't until about 2020, around the time of George Floyd, as you remember, when he was murdered by police and America went through this sort of racial reckoning. You remember all of those marches.

Speaker 7: We will stand up against injustice. And that means taking the risk of expressing unpopular or polarizing points of view because complacency and complicity sit in the shadow of silence.

Speaker 8: It's a dramatic change for predominantly white corporate America. But for some, the outpouring of support for protests rings hollow. Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez blasting companies for releasing bland statements with a hashtag, tweeting, your statement should include your org's internal commitments to change.

Speaker 4: And what you saw was that a lot of major companies in the private sector really started leaning into these DEI initiatives within the workplace. And you found that there were a lot of jobs that started to be created. Chief diversity officers like those positions and posts increased exponentially during that period.

Speaker 1: Like it wasn't just Aunt Jemima changing its logo, like whole companies were creating these new divisions and new positions really to focus on this issue of being more

Speaker 4: inclusive. Exactly. But while that was happening. This is a lie. There was a segment of the American public that said, you know, we feel attacked by these initiatives.

Speaker 9: They systematically discriminate against white and Asian men in particular, and it's going to take mobilizing public opinion.

Speaker 4: And you would hear that rhetoric from a lot of conservatives and Republicans saying that this this is discriminatory.

Speaker 10: Well, tonight, Walmart, an iconic symbol of capitalism and frankly, Americana, now the symbol of the great retreat from DEI.

Speaker 4: And you are seeing corporate America responding.

Speaker 11: The company says it's ending racial equity training programs for employees, re-evaluating programs that assist minority owned suppliers and is winding down its Center for Racial Equity, a nonprofit Walmart had set up to address racism in society.

Speaker 4: I mean, we've heard that major companies, they're doing away with their DEI policies. Meta says that they're doing away with their DEI policies.

Speaker 11: In addition to Walmart, major American companies like Lowe's, Ford, Harley-Davidson and John Deere are scaling back their DEI programs and their support for pride marches and LGBTQ events.

Speaker 4: But I will say it's not every corporate entity is doing that. Costco came out and said that they were going to keep and stand by their DEI policies. But certainly this issue has become a divide within the country and it's become almost like a boogeyman for those who are against it.

Speaker 1: I guess I'm wondering, though, is there any evidence that these programs are actually hindering the most qualified people from being hired, as Trump and others have suggested? Like the last couple of days, I've been hearing Trump talk about merit. We want to make sure that we're hiring people on merit and not on the the color of someone's skin. So, like, is there any proof of that?

Speaker 4: You know, I've spent a lot of time talking to a lot of people in this space of DEI from advocacy groups, from, you know, lawyers who bring cases against discrimination in the workplace. And they all really get frustrated when they hear that narrative that, you know, there is a lowering of standards, this idea that diversity equals a lowering of standards. It really, really gets them. And then what the point that they make to me over and over again is that diversity, equity, inclusion in the workplace is essentially is to create an environment that feels safe and inclusive and accepting for the diverse workforce that is in that workplace. And they certainly also point out that DEI does not only focus on hiring. It's about training to bridge cultural divides within workplaces. It's about protections. The Biden administration, for example, really expanded DEI protections and who can benefit from them during his administration. I mean, it includes protecting women from harassment in the workplace, protecting pregnant women. Military spouses were included under the umbrella of beneficiaries of DEI. We know people with disabilities fall under that umbrella. Caregivers were meant to be included under that umbrella, even rural communities. So the idea that DEI is purely a racial sort of initiative is false. But to answer your question, there have been studies out there that actually show that a diversity in thought in the workplace is beneficial and actually is better for the company's bottom line. You know, having all of one way of thinking and lack of diversity in background and life experience certainly has not ever been a winning strategy. And companies and studies have showed that.

Speaker 12: We're committed to a society in which all men and women have equal opportunities to succeed, and so we oppose the use of quotas. We want a colorblind society, a society that, in the words of Dr. King, judges people not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their

Speaker 4: character. And, you know, we kind of have seen similar in the 80s where Reagan tried to push back on DEI and DEI initiatives.

Speaker 13: A toughly worded draft executive order will go to the president. It would outlaw any numerical quota, goal or ratio or any scheme that grants hiring preference to anyone.

Speaker 4: He kind of took the stance that government shouldn't get involved to tell corporate America what to do in this space and that they should deal with that issue internally.

Speaker 13: But tinkering with two decades of civil rights policy won't be easy. I don't know that when it works, you know, you don't fix it.

Speaker 4: But it didn't quite work out. I mean, those corporations and companies felt like intertwining diversity training and initiatives within their workplaces was actually beneficial for them. But I think it just speaks to the fact that we have been here in some way, shape or form before, and we have seen this sort of resistance to DEI before.

Speaker 1: So as far as the policy for federal workers is concerned, are there any legal protections that these employees can fall back on here?

Speaker 4: I mean, look, the law doesn't change. It is still illegal and civil rights laws are in place. The Civil Rights Act is certainly still a law on the books. So, you know, it's illegal to discriminate against someone for over their race, over their sex. But as many of these advocates say, the laws are oftentimes in response to an act of discrimination. That is when you can lean on those. DEI is more of a preventative measure. You want to create an environment so that you never getting to the point of being in violation of the law. And they truly believe that those initiatives help with that. How many federal workers are we talking about here that could be impacted by this?

Speaker 14: We have no idea. And one of the things that we hope to learn this week is exactly how many employees are working in DEI.

Speaker 4: And, you know, I spent some time speaking with Chairman of the House Oversight, James Comer, who, like President Trump, is on a mission to wipe out DEI. And he said a number of times that he thinks that it's repetitive.

Speaker 14: Again, it doesn't impact discrimination. It's still illegal to discriminate. This is just about eliminating an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy.

Speaker 4: There's no reason for these initiatives because civil rights laws are on the books and it's already illegal to discriminate against race. But I countered and asked him, you know, look, if you are driving 100 miles per hour in a 60 mile per hour zone, there are laws on the books that says that's illegal. But should we not have seatbelts to protect in the event that you break that law? If the protections aren't there, doesn't it make it easier to violate a law that everyone knows is on the books?

Speaker 14: I think their protections are there. And I think this administration will be serious about protecting against discrimination. I know Congress is serious about it. This is just about an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy and it amounts to hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars, if not billions of dollars in added payroll.

Speaker 1: Like if they view civil rights laws as a positive thing, a positive step, what's a little more on top just to reinforce?

Speaker 4: Correct. Or having the protections in place so that you have an environment that is in line with what the law says for individuals and how they should be treated in the workplace.

Speaker 15: Hello. Hi, Art. How are you?

Speaker 4: I'm doing great. You doing well?

Speaker 15: Yes. Thank you so much.

Speaker 4: I also spoke with the union, one of the unions that represents a lot of these federal employees.

Speaker 16: First of all, I think that people need to understand that DEI is not affirmative action, had nothing to do with affirmative action.

Speaker 4: And they made the point that about roughly one third of the federal workforce is made up of veterans. And so that's another layer here as far as the people being impacted.

Speaker 16: There are veterans that go and fight a war and they come back to the workplace and they need these mechanisms in place to make sure that they can work in an environment, you know, that where they can be safe. And that's what DEI does. So but it's just a smoke stream to really just fire a whole bunch of civil service, you know, and that's the bottom line.

Speaker 4: There was also a memo that went out to agencies as well from the Office of Personnel Management, and it read like a warning. It essentially told federal employees if they are aware of any efforts to disguise job descriptions within the agency to essentially use coded language that doesn't outright use buzzwords like diversity or equity in an effort to save those positions, that they should report that to the administration. And if they knew about it and didn't report it, there would be adverse actions. Wow.

Speaker 17: All right. New this morning, sources tell CNN some federal employees are editing their job descriptions to save them. They are worried.

Speaker 4: Just to give that a little bit more context, just a week ago, CNN reported myself and colleague Hadass Gold, we reported that there actually were before Trump got into office, federal employees who were actively making tweaks to job descriptions, internal policy descriptions.

Speaker 18: One senior staffer at an agency told me that there is an effort to remove mentions of policy from people's job descriptions. So instead of saying provides policy guidance, it just says provides guidance. And that's because.

Speaker 4: So that warning really came from the acknowledgement that there were career employees who were making those edits.

Speaker 1: It sounds like, you know, folks are on edge, but they're also just trying to preserve whatever little bit of this they can. More broadly, how are federal employees reacting to the first week of this Trump presidency? Like, what is the mood?

Speaker 4: Anxious and fearful. Those are the two words that I've heard a lot from the people that I've spoken to so far. And at the end of the day, we talk about this in, you know, about policy. We talk about this in the realm of politics. But these are people with families and bills and, you know, had these government jobs, some of them for decades. And now they're uncertain of what their work situation will be. I mean, I think we really are at a fork in the road when it comes to DEI. I mean, we talked about it earlier, how some of these major companies are taking the queue of the White House. And so, you know, the more politicized this issue becomes, will we see more major companies in the private sector decide to move away from it? Perhaps what we may also see, though, is they continue these efforts, but they just call it something different. But there is a level of sadness amongst the people who have been doing the work in this space for a very long time. They feel as if they have toiled to get to this point and they see that being chipped away. And, you know, in speaking with one person today who used to work in government, he no longer does, but he was a chief diversity officer and he said his career is over. And what is fair now, with so many of these people in government being targeted, is will they ever serve again? Because at the end of the day, they have to pay bills and they have to make sure that they have a steady paycheck. And if they feel as if working in this space makes them a target for unemployment,

Speaker 1: some may think twice about it. And you could imagine private companies that do business with the government would be thinking about an order just like this. Rene, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Speaker 4: Thank you.

Speaker 1: One Thing is a production of CNN Audio. This episode was produced by Paolo Ortiz and me, David Rind. Our senior producers are Felicia Patinkin and Fez Jamil. Matt Dempsey is our production manager. Dan DeZula is our technical director. And Steve Lichtai is the executive producer of CNN Audio. We get support from Haley Thomas, Alex Manassari, Robert Mathers, John D'Onora, Lainey Steinhardt, Jameis Andres, Nicole Passereau and Lisa Namrao. Special thanks to Wendy Brundage and Katie Hinman. We'll be back on Wednesday. I'll talk to you then.