Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Bookends YouTube channel. I am James McGowan. I'm Jessica Faust. Today we're talking about literary agents and how literary agents and authors work together. And of course, there's a, you know, wide variation between the way each agent works with their clients, but we're hoping to give a general sense of what that dynamic looks like. Yeah,

Speaker 2: I think that maybe based on this video, you'll be able to form the questions you might have when an agent offers representation. You might also have some idea of, based on sort of what we say, what kind of agent you think would be ideal for you moving forward so that when you are interviewing agents, you have a sense of what you're looking for. Yeah, so I think

Speaker 1: one of the most common questions that we always get, which is probably a good place to start,

Speaker 2: is, are you an editorial agent? What does that mean? Yes, well, I mean, an editorial agent, I believe all agents at Bookends are editorial agents. An editorial agent works with you editorially. So years ago, when I was an editor, actually, I was having lunch with an agent who had been an editor, had transitioned out, and was now a literary agent. And one of the things she said to me that has always struck me is, I don't edit. I don't want to edit. I did that already. I just want to agent and sell the books. That is not an editorial agent. An editorial agent will really dig in there with you to revise, to edit your book, and to work with you on it. The level of edits that you can get will differ from agent to agent. How much an agent wants to work on a book, or is willing to work on a book, or is able to work on the book will differ from agent to agent. So the type of editorial feedback you're going to get is going to be different. So ultimately, that's what an editorial agent is, somebody who will work with you

Speaker 1: editorially on your book. Right, and it makes a difference for each writer, whether you want someone who's going to get in there and help you, you know, tinker with the book and make it perfect, or if you feel that what you're providing is where you want the book to be,

Speaker 2: and you just want it to go out that way. Yeah, and I think there are also, I was going to say, there are also different things about editorial that are important to know, which is, you know, I'm a brainstorming agent. Me too. Yeah, and so both of us love, I mean, it's my favorite thing to get on a call with an author and brainstorm their next idea, or even the manuscript we're working on, things like that. I love to brainstorm, but not all agents want to do that, and not all agents can, just like not all people are, you know, great at coming up with ideas. Right, yeah,

Speaker 1: and I mean, some agents view the author's role in writing a book to be, do you know what I'm saying? Like, yes, they view their role in how the author writes the book far less than we view it. For us, we want to be involved from the beginning if you can, but sometimes you find that you should write the book you want to write, and then bring it to us, and we'll take it from there. Just finding out when the agent starts to involve themselves is really important. Yep, yep, and it's different

Speaker 2: for everybody. Yeah, so the other thing when we're talking about editorial and editorial agents, we should talk about is not just what the agent does as an editorial agent, but we should talk about what an agent is not, and I think that's just as important, because knowing what to expect is easier to, you know, also know what not to expect, and what an agent is not as a critique

Speaker 1: partner. Or a, some agents will do it, but a very basic line level editor. Yes, yes, or a copy editor. Right, a copy editor, yeah, but you hear editorial, and you're just like, oh, this person's going to fix the book, but it's more in terms of content, so we should say content editors, like, are you

Speaker 2: an editorial for content, but you have to know who you, you know who you don't want copy editing in your book? Yeah, oh, terrible. I think I only learned the difference between then and then, like

Speaker 1: last year. Well, I don't think that it's a huge thing in the grand scheme of things, right? Like, it's not a huge issue, but if it's riddled throughout the entire book, then it's an issue. So, if I see a then instead of a than throughout the book, I might say, oh, fix this, but if it's every page, every paragraph, there are issues on top of issues, that's not where any, I'm just going

Speaker 2: to send it back, so no. I'm going to send it back, and I'm also going to know if I see a huge copy editing problem, then there's a lot more that I'm not seeing, because it is not my forte, and if you are somebody like me, who is a little unclear of the difference between then and then, or lay and lie, then maybe you do need to bring in somebody who knows better, because you don't want that to, you don't want that to change somebody's perspective of your book, just, you know, because it's like, well, if I see that, and I know it's wrong consistently, then it gives me

Speaker 1: the impression the book just isn't that good. Yeah, but I also want to go back to what you said, that agents are not critique partners. People said that we're editorial, and we like to be involved from the beginning, but I do want to clarify that being involved from the beginning does not mean looking at your super rough drafts, your half-finished drafts. Whenever you send something to an agent, it should still be, if it was going to be bound, you should still be comfortable with

Speaker 2: that going on the shelves. It should never be a draft. Anytime I get, I have somebody send me what they consider a draft, my first thought is, no, no, I'm going to send this right back. You don't want to see a draft. I want to see your very best polished work, and no matter what it is, I always want to see your very best polished work. Now, that doesn't mean we won't work on it, and there will be times I say to clients, you know what? Send me your partial. If you're struggling, send me your partial. I'll look at it, and we'll see what we're doing here, but don't send me something with the idea that I'm going to go back and forth with you 100 times on it as your critique partners used to or do or should do. That is not my role. It's not useful to any of our time,

Speaker 1: and don't send us chapter by chapter. Just whatever you send, make sure you are confident

Speaker 2: with it going to your agent as if it were final. Yeah, I mean, you want to send me something that if I go looks great and I don't read it, which is never going to happen, but on the chance that I decide I'm just going to forward it straight onto the editor and not read it, you want to be comfortable with that. Yeah, so do I. I mean, you almost want to be surprised that you get revisions on it. That's how strongly you feel about it. So yeah, an agent is not a critique partner, but the other thing about that is you want your agent to be your final eyes before it goes on submission, and if I have seen something multiple times, then it really makes it difficult for me to give strong feedback because now I lose perspective the same way you do on, is this better? Is this worse? I can't get what I saw the last five times out of my head to really

Speaker 1: understand. Yeah, ultimately our job is to determine whether a book can sell, and if we've seen it 55 times, we are going to lose the forest for the trees. So making sure that we retain that

Speaker 2: objectivity is important. Yeah, and if, you know, for example, if your book has a twist, and I've read that twist three or four times, I don't even know if that twist works anymore.

Speaker 1: Yeah, which is why we have often sent a book around like, did you see this coming? Second, read it for each other because we've read it a bunch of times. Yeah, yeah, so that is what an agent is not editorial. Another really important part of the way literary agents work is their communication style. Yes, yes. Probably the most important part of the whole job. Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 2: You know, how they communicate, you know, are they a phone agent, text, email, you know, DM, do they all, do they have, you know, a Slack channel for you? How do they communicate with you and what works for you? I mean, if you're not a phone person and your agent only wants to talk on the phone, that could be a problem. I think, though, for me with that question, it's less about the form in which you communicate and more about the level, how frequently you communicate. Yeah, and also the comfort level in the communication. You know, is the agent very formal? Is the agent more casual? Is the agent somebody that, you know, chats with you about the world and everyday life and then you get into the nitty-gritty or is the agent more just straight-up business? Right. All of those things and, I mean, you can ask how that works, but I think you certainly get a sense on the call. Yeah, it's one of those learn

Speaker 1: on the job kind of things. Like, you kind of just got to get on the phone with them and see how they speak and talk and interact and speak and talk. Yeah, I tend to be very chatty and can be.

Speaker 2: Yeah, especially with clients who've been with me for a long time. You know, what could be a five-minute phone call ends up being 45 because we're chatting about the dogs and the weather and the state of the world and the state of publishing and whatever else we're chatting about. And that definitely comes through in the offer call. And I know in offer calls, I have maybe asked questions or been more casual in some of my conversations and I can feel when an author just really is backing off. That's not the kind of communication they're comfortable with.

Speaker 1: Right. And it might just be that they work up to that too. Maybe they just didn't like me. But I'm the same way in that I'm just a talker, which is why before we even started this video, we were talking for 30 minutes for a scheduled video session. But I think that getting the sense of how they are and how your personalities click is super important on the call. And then I do think that once you go from there, that call really sets the tone for how the rest of the communication will likely go. Of course, it's a good sort of starting point for how you envision the communication between you two. Right. Our final point in how an agent works with an author that you should keep in mind is how transparent things are throughout the entire

Speaker 2: submission contract publication process. Yeah. And in this respect, I think the important thing to note and remember is that your agent is your business partner slash really somebody you're paying to work with and for you. Right. And I think that's the most important thing because if you have a business partner, are you laughing at the dog noises? Yeah. Oh, now she's talking. And if you have a business partner and you have somebody working for you, you want them to tell you what's going on, what's going on with your career and with your money and everything else.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think that it's important to, this is something that should also come on that first call to ask them how involved they keep you, how often they'll get updates from you, just so that you know. I mean, you might be the kind of person that just wants it out there and wants to know when you have an offer. You might be the person who wants to see every pass that you get, but you should know that you have the option to do either of those. Yeah. And you should be able to say to

Speaker 2: the agent, well, that's great. Can I get more frequent updates? Can I get less frequent updates? Can I only get my updates on Wednesdays? Right. You had a client like that. I did. Yes. I had a client who rather than opening her email every day in a panic, fearing that it was a pass, she opted to pick one day of the week that I would send her an email. And then she didn't like that either. So we had to switch that up, but we kept trying to find different ways to communicate for me to give her the information she needed. The other thing I always say to my clients is once it goes on dismission, I'm just busy doing that. I might not communicate with you because I don't have anything to communicate, but that doesn't mean you can't communicate with me. Right. You know, it should not be a one-sided communication where you as the author are just waiting to hear from somebody. You should be able to say, Hey, I haven't heard anything. Is there anything new? Is there anything I should know? Should I be worried? Should I be excited? Olive is upset by this conversation. So yeah, I think that's important to know is that you have the ability to also in some ways direct how transparent the agent is. Yes. It should always feel like it's

Speaker 1: an open door that you can knock on anytime you want. Yeah, absolutely. That wasn't a food

Speaker 2: reference though. So we'll take it. Wow. No food references on this one. No. Should we just make

Speaker 1: one just for continuity? So those are our three main points. Sorry, you had a snap. So those are our three main points for what it's like to work with a literary agent, what to look for, what to ask for when you are on the call with an agent. And what to expect when you're working together. Exactly. We hope it was helpful. If there's anything you may have missed that you think is super important, let your fellow queriers know down in the comments. Don't forget to like and subscribe and we hope to see you next time. And we hope to be more in our game next time. Yeah, a little more thought out. Bye.