Speaker 1: Russian President Vladimir Putin says he's ready to meet with President Trump to talk about the war in Ukraine. This comes just a day after Trump warned of new tariffs and sanctions on Moscow. But the Russian leader dismissed those threats calling Trump quote smart and pragmatic. The Russian president also said if Trump had been in power the quote crisis in Ukraine would never have happened. This is how Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky responded.

Speaker 2: He wants to manipulate the desire of the President of the United States of America to achieve peace. I am confident that no Russian manipulations will

Speaker 1: succeed anymore. Joining us now to talk more about this an expert on Russia CNN contributor and former CNN Moscow bureau chief Jill Dougherty. It's so great to have you here Jill. First let's just start with what President Zelensky was saying there. Is Putin using manipulation tactics on Trump? Well I

Speaker 3: think definitely. I mean that is part of the playbook as a former KGB agent. But you know in a broader way that with Putin there is always a subtext. So on the other hand you know all these threats that are coming or came a few days ago from President Trump. Putin essentially saying oh you know we have a great relationship businesslike relations. President Putin would President Trump would never do anything to hurt his economy etc. And then you have the spokesperson for for Putin essentially saying you know there's nothing new here. President Trump likes sanctions but sanctions aren't going to work because our president has been putting up with that for a very long time etc. But I think you know the ultimate game for Putin is he wants to be back on the world stage as a leader who is on the level of President Trump. So he you know that is what he's looking for. That's the most important thing. And obviously you know Ukraine is very very important to Putin in a way that a lot of other issues are not. But this super important thing is to be at the table and to be a dealmaker and a decider. And you've described solving the war in

Speaker 1: Ukraine as devilishly complicated especially now that North Korea is involved. Tell us more about about how you how you're thinking about that explain and explain why why that is. Well I mean President Trump has said he

Speaker 3: wants to solve it very quickly. Maybe now a hundred days from now. But you know if you look at this issue right now it's almost like a puzzle. You have a huge war in the middle of Europe which is completely just you know pulled apart a lot of the relationships previously. So NATO has grown. Russia is more truculent etc. Then you have the fact that North Korean troops 10,000 of them are fighting and dying in Ukraine right now for Russia. So North Korea nuclear power by the way as we know is engaged. Then you have China. China's engaged in a way of let's say helping Russia to avoid sanctions. So yeah I mean you can see kind of the complications of all of this right now. Not to mention nuclear arms agreements etc. So I think you know to get the details what does President Trump think he's going to do to really come to some conclusion. And I think what he's done is simply said I don't want this anymore. Take it off the table and

Speaker 1: let my guys figure it out. Yeah and so to that end not that you have a crystal ball but but what might that look like in the coming month or so. Well yeah it

Speaker 3: is complicated but I think you know if you look at Zelensky because you can see him in the middle. You know he wants probably some agreement ultimately but what kind of an agreement. And he sees Trump coming in you know making moves not always clear where he's going. So I think best case for Zelensky for Ukraine would be war comes to an end. There is some sort of long-term stable security structure in place to protect Ukraine. And that would probably obviously mean NATO membership which is very controversial etc. The worst case I think for Zelensky would be Trump stops the aid especially military aid. Then Zelensky is forced into some type of agreement. He has to give up territory. That's kind of already out there as a possibility. But no NATO membership as Putin wants. That would be a very big deal. And then the worst thing I think for Ukraine would be if Russia succeeds in taking over Ukraine. And now that obviously militarily would be a dire consequence. But it could also be undermining Ukraine. Taking it over in a sense politically and and emasculating it. So that it doesn't know it cannot be become part of the West as it wants to. So and then I'm sure you could put a list for Trump for Putin as well. But that's that's certainly you know some of the right. It's complicated. Yes Jill

Speaker 1: Dougherty thank you as always we really appreciate it. Sure.