Speaker 1: And I want to go out front now to the Republican Senator Mark Wayne Mullen from Oklahoma. He jumped into action on January 6th to stop the violent mob at the Capitol. You see him here barricading the doors to the House chamber with a desk from the House floor. So, Senator Mullen, you were there, and you know what happened that day. Do you wish President Trump would have only pardoned nonviolent offenders? Obviously, it was clear that he was going to do that, instead of the blanket pardon he issued.

Speaker 2: SEN. MARK WAYNE MULLEN, R-OK, House Intelligence Committee Chief of Staff Nominee Well, I think what happened is, after President Biden did the preemptive pardon on his family members and on the Gen 6 Committee, I think it all changed. And this is President Trump's prerogative. He's the president of the United States now. And the American people, November 5, chose to move on past January 6. It was a regretful day. It should have never taken place. There's no question it was a right. I saw it with my own eyes. But President Trump is the president of the United States, and things changed. Even President Biden, remember, four years ago said that a pardon, a preemptive pardon shows guilt, but yet he went ahead and did that. And as I said, I think everything changed after President Biden did what he did 15 minutes before he left office.

Speaker 1: So, obviously, I'm not going to equate one versus the other. I do just want to point out the point, Senator, as you and I know, anyone watching knows, there's no way that they got 700 pardons ready in those few hours, right? Those were ready to go. No. It wasn't after President Biden made the decision about his family and the January 6 commitment.

Speaker 2: I believe it was 42 executive orders with 200 actions on them. And there was a change, but it doesn't take too long to put a full and complete pardon on January 6. It simply changes the piece of paper. And I get people are upset at those that provided violence, and especially to our officers, who many are my friends. But at the same time, I'm not saying it's fair, but at the same time, President Biden changed all this. Remember the 37 murderers that he commuted their sentences? Remember two of them, one that he pardoned, two, one that he pardoned killed two FBI agents. Another one literally beat an officer to death with a hammer. And another one literally tied up a woman who had accused him of rape, tied her up in duct tape, put a center block around her, and threw her over a bridge live. And so you remember that the violence that he pardoned, and I'm just saying that you got to compare both of them, Erin. If you're going to cover the story, cover both stories, because neither one of them

Speaker 1: is right. Senator, two things, though. First I want to talk about, first of all, saying somebody else jumped off a bridge, so I'm going to jump off the bridge, too, is not an excuse that any of us would generally find acceptable. So just putting aside, Biden did this, so Trump did this, I want to talk about your feelings about it. You talk about these as officers you know. You were there. You say it's a riot. You were yelling in rioters' faces. You were blockading a door as they were attacking the Capitol. And you've talked about what you saw, right? You've talked about what you saw, that you walked in a room and saw people that had had officers that had had broken limbs, noses broken. You talked about it yourself. Let me just play some of that.

Speaker 2: I looked at him and I says, I'd put you down. And I said, I'd put you down. And the guy looked at me and he says, this is our house. I said, it's our house, too. He says, yeah, but this is our effing house. And I said, it's our house, too, and we're not going to let you come in.

Speaker 1: And that was an exchange, Senator, that you described having with one of the rioters. In the context of what we're talking about here, just this particular pardons, how can you defend people like, how can you defend people like that?

Speaker 2: I'm not, I am not trying to defend the individuals whatsoever. That's not what I'm trying to do. And I get what you're saying by jumping off a bridge. I'm saying things changed when President Biden did what they did and both are equally bad. Neither one should be assaulting police officers at any time, especially those that Biden pardoned that killed each other or that killed officers. Now, going back to what happened, it was a horrible day, Aaron. I said it was a horrible day. However, the American people have chose to move on. That was evident with the overwhelming support that President Trump got November 5th. And he did not hide his disdain for the Department of Justice, who was openly targeting individuals. Keep in mind, over half the individuals that was pardoned here, Aaron, were people that got misdemeanors for like parading on public lands and picketing on public lands, and you know that to be a fact.

Speaker 1: And we knew, Senator, yes, and we knew that he was going to pardon those individuals. I don't think anybody was under any illusions about that, right? But the ones who did the violence, you know, when you heard Officer Fanone talking about six individuals who were on the receiving end of this, you know, what do you say to them today?

Speaker 2: Well, I mean, Aaron, I don't mean to be beating a drum here, but I just want to make sure that reporting is equal. What does the individuals, what does the Biden administration, what does this station say to the individuals that they lost two of their family members that were FBI agents? What about the officer that was beat to death with a hammer? All I'm trying to say is, let's make sure we're not just focusing on President Trump and his pardon. But Senator. Let's keep in mind that the outgoing administration.

Speaker 1: Senator, I understand what you're saying. But what if Biden did even worse? Well, no, I'm not going to accept that premise, but I will just take you on very one clear fact. Right. You are here to talk about January 6th. It's just like when you and I both speak to our own children, they come and say, well, but Joey did this and this is just as no, I want to talk about you and what happened with you. So what I'm talking about here in this context of you and me having a conversation is January 6th and something that you were there, that you called a riot, that you said you walked into a room and you saw people whose legs had limbs had been broken, noses had been broken. People who are your friends and the people who did that, the perpetrators of those acts are now pardoned. That's just a simple thing for you to answer separate from what anybody else did. Are you OK with that?

Speaker 2: What I'm saying is the American people has chose to move on. I have my personal feelings on it, but the American people have chose to move on. And President Trump, it's his prerogative to do this. He did not hide that he was going to pardon January 6 individuals that was wrongfully charged by the DOJ. I get what you're saying about the violent crimes. However, that is still the president's prerogative, just like it was Joe Biden's prerogative to parole the 37 murders or commute their sentences. It is still the president's prerogative to do that, regardless of you and I agree with or not. And the American people chose to put President Trump in office by overwhelming support. What is sad is that we continue to talk about this and we're not talking about the other executive orders that literally put the American people back where they wanted.

Speaker 1: There are a lot of them to talk about again, just talking to you about this specifically. I just wonder whether you're worried about what this does to the rule of law. The American people can vote for what they vote for. Right. But our courts are independent from our from from the executive office. That's the way it's supposed to be. And again, you can say, well, this person did this and this did this. But in this moment, this is what happened. I mean, Enrique Terrio, who was convicted of seditious conspiracy for coordinating and directing the attacks, is free. And he said, Senator, and I quote him, he just gave an interview to Alex Jones. He said the people who did this, they need to feel the heat. They need to be put behind bars and they need to be prosecuted. I'm not going anywhere.

Speaker 2: Well, if you're talking about the rule of law, President Trump is a person that's reinstating the rule of law. He's the one that has closed down the lawless that was happening on the border. He's the one that's going to aggressively go after criminals in the cities. He's going to close down the sanctuary cities. He's the one that's going to enforce law. He's not the one that weaponized the DOJ in his first administration. He's not going to weaponize the DOJ this time like the Biden administration did. So if you're talking about rule of law, I'm not worried about it. In fact, I'm excited that President Trump is going to actually enforce the rule of law once again, because what separates us from our third world country is a is that we enforce the law and we respect the law. Third world country kind of does whatever they want to. That's why people wanted to come to the United States, because they wanted security. They wanted confidence. They wanted to know they could live in peace and that we didn't see that underneath the Biden administration.

Speaker 1: All right, Senator Mullen, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.

Speaker 2: Thank you, Erin.