Speaker 1: One of the very first appointments Donald Trump made after winning the election in November was tapping one man to be what he calls his border czar. Tom Homan is a former border patrol agent and acting director of ICE with decades of experience in Republican and Democratic administrations. I sat down with him this week and began our conversation by asking him about the role of the US military.

Speaker 2: We got military on the border, not only helping us with departure flights on military planes, but helping to build infrastructure. They're putting up a Constantino wire. They're down there to create a secure border and dock that border down. And DOD's helped administrations before, but not at this level. So it's a force multiplier and it's sending a strong signal to the world. Our border's closed.

Speaker 1: So is this what we will see every single day ending in what the president has promised is millions and millions being deported?

Speaker 2: Yes. But you can see the numbers steadily increase with the number of arrests nationwide as we open up the aperture. Right now it's concentrating public safety threats, national security threats. That's a smaller population. So we're going to do this on priority base as President Trump's promised, but as that aperture opens, there'll be more arrests nationwide.

Speaker 1: When you talk about the aperture opening, the estimates of perhaps those who have been convicted or arrested in the past 700,000 to over a million. So after you do that, then you go after everybody who is there illegally.

Speaker 2: If you're in a country illegally, you're on the table because it's not okay to violate laws of this country. You gotta remember, every time you enter this country illegally, you violated a crime under Title VIII, United States Code 1325. It's a crime. So if you're in a country illegally, you got a problem. And that's why I'm hoping those who are in the country illegally who have not been ordered removed by the federal judge should leave.

Speaker 1: While you are emphasizing that you go after national security threats, you have said, no one's off the table. If you're in the country illegally, you better be looking over your shoulder. You should be afraid and start packing now. Is that what you're doing to get hotel workers out or people working on farms, that they'll be so scared they just leave?

Speaker 2: Look, I think if you're in the country illegally, it's not okay. It's not okay to violate laws of this country. We have millions of people standing in line, taking the test, doing their background investigation, paying the fees that want to come in the right way.

Speaker 1: Let's talk about the arrests so far. Numbers released the first day were over 500. And there were reports that one was a suspected terrorist. Others were gang members. Were all of the people who were arrested on day one, as far as you know, convicted criminals or those who had been arrested before?

Speaker 2: No. Let me explain that. There are collateral arrests. Where do collateral arrests happen? Sanctuary cities. And this is important, we understand that. Sanctuary cities lock us out of the jails. So instead of ICE being able to arrest the bad guy, the criminal alien, and the safety and security of the jail where the officer's safe, the alien's safe, and the public's safe, sanctuary cities release them back in the community, which endangers the community, putting the criminal alien back in the community. But when we find him, he's going to be with others, most likely. Many times they're with others. If they're in the country illegally, they're coming too.

Speaker 1: But were these arrests all in sanctuary cities? It doesn't appear so on the first day.

Speaker 2: The collaterals? Many more. I don't have the exact breakdown, but again-

Speaker 1: So the arrests in Massachusetts, in Chelsea, Massachusetts, which the governor said it's great to arrest the criminals who were convicted, but were there people taken there as well who were not convicted? I'm sure they were. Were they, as you say, collaterals?

Speaker 2: I'm sure they are.

Speaker 1: You talk about these numbers expanding. 500 the first day. What do you think you can get up to?

Speaker 2: As many as we can get.

Speaker 1: What can happen at this point, given your manpower?

Speaker 2: Look, I think we're in the beginning stages. We're bringing more resources into this operation. As a whole government, we'll have DOJ assisting us. And like the DOD piece, helping build infrastructure, helping the transportation, that takes ICE, badgers and guns, out of those duties and puts them on the street.

Speaker 1: I want to go back to who you're deporting. Aside from the long list of executive actions, the administration said it will no longer tell ICE agents they have to avoid sensitive locations, including schools, hospitals, churches. Benjamin Huffman, the acting Homeland Security Secretary, said in a statement, criminals will no longer be able to hide in America's schools and churches to avoid arrest. What criminals are hiding in schools? Middle schools, elementary schools. You're going to go into those?

Speaker 2: How many MS-13 members are at age 14, 17? Many of them. So, look, if it's a national security threat, public safety threat, and what you need to understand is that case by case, name another agency, another law enforcement agency that has those type of requirements that they can't walk into a school or a doctor's office or a medical campus. No other agency's held to those standards. These are well-trained officers with a lot of discretion. And when it comes to the sensitive location, there's still going to be supervised review. So it's not like it's an open issue. But ICE officers should have discretion to decide if a national security threat or a public safety threat's in one of these facilities, then there should be an option for them to make the arrest.

Speaker 1: But someday you could go into those schools and grab people who are just in the country illegally.

Speaker 2: On a case-by-case basis, depending who they are, what the circumstances are. It's never a zero game.

Speaker 1: You know that this creates fear in the immigrant community. The chair of the U.S. Conference of Bishops Committee said, turning places of care, healing, and solace into places of fear and uncertainty for those in need while endangering the trust between pastors, providers, educators, and the people they serve will not make our communities safer.

Speaker 2: Well, here's what I think. Congress has a job to do. We're enforcing the laws Congress enacted and the President signed. If they don't like it, change the law. I find it hard to believe any member of Congress is telling us not to enforce the law that they enacted and they fund us to do.

Speaker 1: But opening up to anyone who's in the country illegally and going into schools and grabbing them, does that, kids, adults?

Speaker 2: The message needs to be clear, there's consequences for entering a country illegally. If we don't show those consequences, you're never gonna fix the border problem.

Speaker 1: Estimates are that there are 11 million undocumented immigrants in this country right now. How can you possibly afford to deport all of those people?

Speaker 2: Well, I'll leave it up to Congress. I think Congress, the President has a mandate. This was the number one issue that people voted on. I think Congress has a mandate to give us the money we need. What price do you put on national security? More detention centers? What price do you put on all these young ladies that have been raped and murdered and burned alive? What price do you put on that? What price do you put on Lakin Riley's life? What price do you put on national security? Like I just explained, when you have a surge like this, we don't secure that border, that's when national security threats enter the country. That's when sex trafficking goes up. That's when fentanyl comes in and kills a quarter million Americans. I don't put a price on that.

Speaker 1: And on those detention centers, do you need more beds? I think there's 41,000 now, 100,000. So where do you get those beds? Do you build more camps? Do you do this military installations in Texas and elsewhere?

Speaker 2: A little bit of everything. We can build off-site facilities. We can expand our contracts to outside contractors. So yeah, we're gonna need more ICE beds, a minimum of 100,000. Congress needs to come to the table quick and give us the money we need to secure that border.

Speaker 1: Let's talk about those flights again. With the host countries, you flew all of those people back where all of the people arrested on the first day, for instance, repatriated. And what about those countries that won't take them back?

Speaker 2: Oh, they'll take them back.

Speaker 1: What do you mean by that?

Speaker 2: We got President Trump coming to power. President Trump puts America first. Mexico didn't want to remain a Mexico program under the first administration. They did it. They didn't want to put military on the southern border. They did it. El Salvador. How do you convince them? El Salvador didn't want to take MS-13 members back. Took President Trump 48 hours to make that happen. President Trump's gonna put America first. And if it doesn't, then we'll replace it with my third safe country.

Speaker 1: All appointments to the CBP app have been canceled. That is a legal way to claim asylum and get in the country. So what should people do who are seeking asylum? How do you do it?

Speaker 2: Go to the embassy, go to the point of entry. Do it the legal way. You shouldn't come to this country and ask to get asylum. And the first thing you do is break our laws by entering illegally.

Speaker 1: So tell me what the definition of success is. Over the next six months, over the next year, by the end of the administration, what has mission accomplished here?

Speaker 2: Taking as many public safety threats off the street as possible. Watching illegal alien crimes in the United States decrease, ending it. Deporting every illegal alien gang member in this country, including Trinidad and Miss 13. Making our country safe when we see the crime rate from illegal aliens go down, that's success. Every public safety threat we remove from this country is success. Every national security threat that we find removed from the country is success. There's no number on it. So my success can be based on what Congress gives us. More money, the better we're gonna do.

Speaker 1: I notice you didn't put in that list of things that will be mission accomplished and success, getting every immigrant who is in the country illegally out. Why not?

Speaker 2: Because I'm being realistic. We can do what we can with the money we have. We're gonna try to be efficient, but with more money we have, the more we can accomplish. If I don't have the money to remove that millions of people, then I'm not gonna sit here and, one thing, no one can say I haven't been frank in everything I've said. Our success, every day, is taking a public safety threat off the streets or getting a national security threat out of here.

Speaker 1: And our thanks to Tom Homan.