Speaker 1: I ask you to have mercy upon the people in our country who are scared now. There are gay, lesbian, and transgender children in Democratic, Republican, and independent families, some who fear for their lives.

Speaker 2: President Trump is calling on the Episcopal Bishop of Washington, who you saw right there, to apologize to the American people for those remarks, the Reverend Marion Edgar Buddy delivering that plea to the president at Tuesday's National Cathedral prayer service. As Trump looked on, she also pled for mercy for immigrants.

Speaker 1: The vast majority of immigrants are not criminals. They pay taxes and are good neighbors. I ask you to have mercy, Mr. President, on those in our communities whose children fear that their parents will be taken away.

Speaker 2: After the service, Trump voiced his displeasure with her.

Speaker 3: Not too exciting, was it? I didn't think it was a good service, no. They can do much better.

Speaker 2: Shortly after midnight, the president escalated his criticism of the bishop with this Truth Social post, quote, the so-called bishop who spoke at the national prayer service on Tuesday morning was a radical left hardline Trump hater. She brought her church into the world of politics in a very ungracious way. She was nasty in tone and not compelling or smart. Trump goes on to say, Reverend Buddy owes the public an apology. Joining our panel, Jaime Moore, former chief of staff to DNC chair, Jamie Harrison, former regional comms director for Biden in 2020. Stephen Collinson, the big picture here, this Reverend, the bishop, Buddy, using the pulpit to make this plea for mercy and of course, Trump's response. What does it all say to you?

Speaker 4: Well, Trump has been feted by internet billionaires, foreign leaders, his entire party for like two days during this whole inaugural ceremonies. That was the first time that he's seen any kind of dissent at all. I think it's a reminder that there is opposition and fear to what Trump is doing. In the interest of balance, to his point that the bishop had pulled the church into politics, I did think that some of the speakers, some of the preachers that were at the inaugural ceremony were quite politicized as well. So it's not just coming from one side, but I think the president is going to get quite a limited amount of pushback publicly just because of the way these presidential events work. So it was very interesting whether that will be a rallying point for opposition, which we haven't seen this time around.

Speaker 3: We're going to have to wait and see. We just got to get off this fantasy that members of the clergy are not political. And I will go even further, look at Franklin Graham's remarks from the inauguration and with Joe Biden sitting there watching on, talking about the dark times of the last several years and how Donald Trump was sent here by God or whatever, I don't want to misquote. The point is it had political undertones too, and it happens all the time and it should not shock anybody. The pope recently weighed in on deportations. Now many people have their views about this particular pope, but just this idea that we ought to rend our garments and be so shocked every time somebody is on a pulpit and says something political is just sort of silly.

Speaker 2: It's worth noting, I think, that the idea of mercy, and I mean, look, your point is well taken. People pick and choose which scripture they would like to focus on. Reminder that Jesus talked about mercy. Let's watch. We had a reminder of that from the grandson of Jimmy Carter at the recent funeral when he, in the pulpit at the National Cathedral, read from the Beatitudes.

Speaker 5: Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.

Speaker 2: Of course, that is not Donald Trump's favorite Bible verse. He was asked what is his favorite Bible verse, and he answered with, it's a little more Old Testament than new, shall we say.

Speaker 6: Watch. Is there a favorite Bible verse or Bible story that has informed your thinking or your character through life, sir?

Speaker 7: Well, I think many. I mean, you know, when we get into the Bible, I think many, so many. And to tell people to hook an eye for an eye, you can almost say that. That's not a particularly nice thing.

Speaker 2: A plea for mercy and a response from Trump that is basically an eye for an eye.

Speaker 8: I mean, look, this is the United States of America. No parishioner, no pastor, no preacher had to ask their president for mercy. That's just the bottom line. And so I think the fact that we're here right now asking our president for mercy on us is a testament to what Donald Trump ran on and what we think he will govern as president. And so that's just very sad.

Speaker 2: Kristen, there is this idea and this reality that Donald Trump, any president of the United States should be the president for all Americans. Are we leaving that behind?

Speaker 9: I don't think that we're leaving that behind. I don't think a conflict between a president and a religious figure is actually all that new. President Obama famously clashed with bishops over a number of different issues. And I just am trying to always think of what would happen if the shoe was on the other foot. If you had a Democratic president in the audience and a Catholic bishop had gotten up and made a plea for the unborn, would we be having the same kind of conversation? The reason why we're having a different conversation is because of the midnight tweets. And that is where I think things get a little bit, this isn't just about a president running into conflict with a religious leader who has found pieces of scripture that may differ or they believe differ with the president's agenda. Is Donald Trump going to pick every single fight? We've got a long four years ahead of us. Donald Trump may well pick every single fight. I see you smiling, Elliot. He very well may. But this is the picking of every single fight. Is it going to be the kind of thing that will exhaust Americans and take the focus away from the popular things in his agenda that he would like to do?

Speaker 8: I mean, I think to your point, Nancy Pelosi has been called a lot of things by some other Catholics including a baby killer. Nancy Pelosi has never handled those remarks like Donald Trump did. So I think the difference is people feel like they have to ask Donald Trump for mercy. Nancy Pelosi and other people, other members of the Democratic Party, do not treat people like that when they disagree with them, including clergy.

Speaker 3: Elliot? I was looking at Kristen, who I just don't think we ought to both sides how people respond to religious leaders they don't agree with because, you know, to Kristen's point, everybody's a little bit guilty. But, you know, I just get back to the original point. Members of the clergy have been saying spicy things from the pulpit for millennia. Martin Luther King, there were political undertones to his comments as well. I think it's a fair point that, is Donald Trump going to spend these four years, when he ought to be fixing the economy, picking fights with Episcopal bishops? And again, it's an Episcopal bishop. If there's anybody who's going to go off from the pulpit, you ought not be surprised. Sorry, this is a Catholic talk.

Speaker 2: I don't know that go off is like the right, like Episcopalians typically don't go off. I would not say that anger was an eminent emotion there. As an Episcopalian myself. Through clenched WASP-y reserve from the pulpit. What going off entails if you're an Episcopalian is fairly restrained.

Speaker 3: I'm going to be cancelled from this, all right.

Speaker 2: You want the last words, Stephen?

Speaker 4: Donald Trump is going to spend the next four years fighting every fight because he thinks that is what's good for him. So this is just the start.